Worthless thread: sound clips of Acme B-2?

[dohhhhh6]

Hey, I've recently acquired a bass head (Peavey Mark VIII) and as of right now, I have no cabinet for it.

 

So, I'm officially searching for a speaker cabinet. Personally, I've always been intrigued by this "flat" response talk that the Acme speakers supposedly have. However, I've never heard it before and would like to hear it.

 

So could anyone please show me to a sound clip of an Acme speaker? It'd really help me out if I could hear one of the speakers.

 

Thanks in advance, guys.

[jeremy c]

I don't think that hearing a sound clip of a bass speaker that comes through your computer speakers would tell you anything.

[dohhhhh6]

True, but it'd atleast give me a kinda sorta reference as to how they sound. I'm in a position to buy a decent amount of different cabs, so I'm really trying to figure out if the Acme B-2 is worth saving and waiting for.

 

The best way to figure that out is to hear it play, even if through biased speakers.

[abaguer]

The best way to reference the Acme "flat" sound is the way your bass sounds through good headphones. That's actually the way Andy Lewis describes it when you first buy from him. Be sure of what sound you are going for before buying. I find them to be good in low-moderate upright gigs but have not liked them on louder electric BG gigs.

[DONUTHOLE]

I don't know if your Peavey amp is a newer model that I'm not familiar with,but,I would say that an older Peavey Mark anything would be best suited by a more um.....colorful speaker cab since they were designed with and for what was available at the time. I could be wrong,though.Maybe its the "rig of doom".

 

I've owned a couple older Peavey amps and would say,based on my experience,that just "the pure,uncolored tone" of the Peavey might not be the greatest. Maybe just a simple 15 or 410 cab would better suit it.

Kind of like an SVT I owned. I tried it with a few hi fi type cabs and it just didn't fly. It needed the 810 to "color" or mold the tone into something desireable for me. That eventually sent it straight to the auction block.

 

Also,I don't know what your amp puts out,but I've heard that the Acmes are very power hungry and that you need 5/600 watts ore more to get the best performance.

[getz out]

Two things:

 

1. the Peavey will not have enough power for an Acme (as Donut said)

 

2. trying to get an idea of what an Acme sounds like by listening to it through a non-reference rig is like trying to get an idea of what a Color TV looks like through a Black & White TV.

[dohhhhh6]

I tried running my bass direct into my computer then playing it through some pretty decent headphones, and I gotta say, that's EXACTLY the tone I'm looking for. It's warm, bright, just like my bass plays unplugged but even mellower.

 

The only objection I see is that isn't necessarily the greatest tone in a band setting. I know it'd work more than beautifully in jazz band, but what about my rock band? I'm not sure if I want that clean and mellow tone for something with a clean guitar in it.

 

I'm definitely going to have to some research on this.

 

As for the watt issue, my head delivers 350 watts into 4 ohms. That's the recommended minimum at the site, so I figured I should do alright. I know I'd be running with devil at that low of watts, but wouldn't I be able to atleast drive it to a decently loud rock band rehearsal volume?

 

Anyhow, thanks for the help. I'm definitely going to GC this weekend to try some stuff out, figure if I want a 2x10, 2x12, or whatever, and figure out exactly how this head of mine sounds.

 

LadY

[a boy named sue]

A slightly related question (without hi-jacking), I'm thinking of buying two B1's (because my amp can't be bridged without building an invertor).

 

Would the two B1's would be an acceptable home stereo? The power amp is 255W rms into 4 ohm stereo (i.e. each channel). Also, little bit more power is available short term -- 380W rms. As this is a class-A Hi-Fi power amp, it should sound better than a PA amp, but I'm not sure about the cabs.

 

I think this will be loud enough for most things -- hopefully just the one speaker for some gigs.

 

Any thoughts?

 

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FWIW the specs on the amp should be...

Frequency Response: -3dB points: 10Hz to 100kHz

Signal to Noise Ratio (unweighted): >100dB with respect to 100W RMS

Slew rate: Approx 40V/micro second - defined by input filter

Damping Factor: >300 at 180W RMS into 8 ohms

Input Sensitivity / Impedance: 0.8V/33k for 100W into 8 ohms

 

but my build quality will be a bit lower

[BenLoy]

As long as that's 380 Watts per channel, two B1s should sound good as stereo speakers...just connect the ends of the speaker wire to banana plugs and plug them into the proper jacks on the cabinets.

 

As far as being comparable to good stereo speakers...I have no idea. Personally, I love my NHT SB1s:

 

http://www.nhthifi.com/2004/products/images/prod_regular/sb1.jpg

[bikertrash]

You know, you can make an Acme sound like anything you want if you know how to E.Q. them.

 

If I do a 50hz low cut filter, cut a little at 600hz then start boosting around 320hz....

 

My Acmes start to sound just like my Eden Cabinets.

Same mid range bark, same bottom end, same in your face cut through the mix and they get just as loud. It just takes more watts to get them that loud. It's not like they Can't get there.

[dcr]

That makes sense to me.

 

A lot of people have pointed that if you listen to a sound clip, a lot of what you're hearing is being determined by what's going on in the signal chain after the B2--in this case, your sound card, speakers, etc.

 

But the first thing that occurred to me was how much is going on in the signal chain before the B2, such as amplification, EQ, bass, strings, and--oh, yeah!--the player!

 

I think the moral of the story is that you really need to hear the speaker, and yourself through the speaker, for yourself. Anecdotes only get you so far.

[alexclaber]

All those recordings on my "starting a band..." thread feature either one or two Low-B2 cabs (one for rehearsals, both for the gig). Apart from the first track which is recorded with a cassette dictaphone, they're via a JM47 large diaphragm condenser mic through a TFPro P3 preamp straight onto minidisc, then onto the computer via the P3 again into a 24/96 soundcard and then MP3 encoded using Cubase SX. No EQ or compression was used on the recording.

 

But suffice to say that they sound like a really good pair of headphones or BIG studio monitors. If you intend to DI at gigs (which most players do) I don't know of a better way to simultaneously get a great FOH and stage sound, as any coloured cab will require EQing which will then screw up the EQ for the PA and vice versa.

 

Alex

[WCunha]

Originally posted by C.Alexander Claber:

 

If you intend to DI at gigs (which most players do) I don't know of a better way to simultaneously get a great FOH and stage sound, as any coloured cab will require EQing which will then screw up the EQ for the PA and vice versa.

 

Alex

That the exact reason I bought them. You will not be disappointed.

 

Wade

[a boy named sue]

But suffice to say that they sound like a really good pair of headphones

Oh well, there goes the bank balance! (not actualy that big a deal, we're buying my wife a new car...)

 

btw Ben, its 380W per channel and class-A amp watts seem to be a bit 'bigger' (less need for head room -- lots of juice in the caps for transients???). Any way -- I'll mostly be using these B1's for bass, but I've always wanted to hear my amp play recorded music through good speakers very loud; for parties etc.

[abaguer]

The only objection I see is that isn't necessarily the greatest tone in a band setting. I know it'd work more than beautifully in jazz band, but what about my rock band? I'm not sure if I want that clean and mellow tone for something with a clean guitar in it.

That was exactly my only gripe about the B2. It sounded great with my bass and no band, but it didn't cut enough for me in real life gigs. I know plenty of players who agree and disagree with my take on it. I do agree with some of the other LDers who said you can eq it to what you want, but I'm really a plug in and play guy and I sold it and opted for Euphonic Audio speakers which go for the same flat response but the CXL112 has the midrange voiced a little more prominently and it cut better in band settings. I've been using those for the last three years and am really happy with them.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by abaguer:

That was exactly my only gripe about the B2. It sounded great with my bass and no band, but it didn't cut enough for me in real life gigs... ...I sold it and opted for Euphonic Audio speakers which go for the same flat response but the CXL112 has the midrange voiced a little more prominently and it cut better in band settings.

I agree that it isn't a cab that adds 'cut' to your sound and it really requires a total paradigm shift to use most effectively.

 

Learning to get the tones out through the Acme that do what's required at the gig, through a combination of technique, EQ and effects, has meant that I can simply DI my preamp when recording and absolutely nail THE recorded sound effortlessly. Likewise I can also plug my bass (and pedalboard) into a good PA system and get great tone without thinking.

 

However, I started playing the Acmes rather early in my bass playing life - I'd only been playing for less than 3 years - and consequently my tone and technique have developed around a flat response system. Maybe more like a guy that spend almost all his time DI'd in the studio with cans on, than the live player I am.

 

If you've developed your sound as a player through more typical cabs, even flat-ish sounding ones, which have some sort of throaty cut of one sort or another EQ'd in, then I can see it taking too long to teach an old dog new tricks for Acmes to work as well as they can.

 

I'm not extolling my approach as a better one, simply different, but I feel it is the best way to use the Acme's flat sound.

 

Alex

[alexclaber]

I don't think an Acme will get on very well with your Peavey. Simply too transparent AND power hungry. So you'll hear all the hiss and bad graininess of the Peavey, and whenever it runs out of headroom (which will happen too often) it'll sound all gnarly and those lovely deep lows will disappear.

 

Although most bass cabs have very high power ratings, the signal they receive is very dynamic - the crest factor is usually over 10dB. That means that if you're using a 350W amp and running it to the edge of clipping although the cab will see peaks of 350W the continuous average power that the speaker has to handle is more like a mere 35W. And that will sound really LOUD! However an Acme cab is about 6dB quieter than a typical similarly sized cab, so it requires 4 times as much power, i.e. to reach the same volume it'll be handling an average of 140W continuous and peaks of about 1400W. For your amp to manage that it'll need to be an honestly rated very high power amp - my 900W/ch QSC can do that comfortably. And the Acme will sound great and not break a sweat. (FWIW my 425W/ch Mackie used to run out of steam and hit the limiters which stole a lot of bottom from the tone and dirtied up the highs).

 

So here's a curveball for you - how about one of these?

 

http://eclecticbass.com/whizzycab.jpg

 

I can't think of a better cab for getting the most out of your Peavey. It's efficient (not at all power hungry), it's 4 ohms, it's accurate (it's made by EA!), it's very light and small, and despite having plenty of highs it won't show up the Peavey's hissiness due to the absence of a conventional tweeter. I really like these whizzer cone designs - they're light, simple and they cut! I use Peavey's own 1x12" whizzer cone cab with my old Sessionbass 200W head and it did a fine job at remarkably loud gigs.

 

If I'd been shopping for what turned out to be my Acme rig right now, I strongly suspect I'd have bought a pair of Wizzy 112 cabs (I can't justify $2k for a pair of Accugroove Tri-112Ls) and an iAmp 800. Light, loud, simple and very accurate. But I got the Acmes because they were the best compromise back then and my style has developed around their amazingly pure tone.

 

So consider the Wizzy, I've heard great things about it and best of all, our very own DJ Bobby-G sells it!

 

Alex

[Tom Capasso]

I don't own any Acme products, and I don't play them on TV.

 

I have heard other players use them. Ben Loy played out with his Stewart 1.2, and it sounded great. He made a minor tone change between the first and second sets. During the first set he had that jazz-burp thing going (using his Musicman with Bartolini PUP). He added some low end, and the burp became full low tone that cut through (which I liked much more than the burp, but that's me). This was with a drummer and guitars.

 

I mention that because of the "cut through" comments. He had the power to drive them, but they definitely cut. Of course your mileage may vary (and abaguer liked the EAs better). It sounds like that head is a bit underpowered to get what you want from Acmes.

 

I tried out the EA 12. Quite beautiful.

 

Happy hunting.

Tom

[a boy named sue]

Originally posted by C.Alexander Claber:

 

Although most bass cabs have very high power ratings, the signal they receive is very dynamic - the crest factor is usually over 10dB. That means that if you're using a 350W amp and running it to the edge of clipping although the cab will see peaks of 350W the continuous average power that the speaker has to handle is more like a mere 35W. And that will sound really LOUD! However an Acme cab is about 6dB quieter than a typical similarly sized cab, so it requires 4 times as much power, i.e. to reach the same volume it'll be handling an average of 140W continuous and peaks of about 1400W. For your amp to manage that it'll need to be an honestly rated very high power amp - my 900W/ch QSC can do that comfortably. And the Acme will sound great and not break a sweat. (FWIW my 425W/ch Mackie used to run out of steam and hit the limiters which stole a lot of bottom from the tone and dirtied up the highs).

Alex

Alex,

 

Does 255W rms into 4 ohm stereo (i.e. each channel). Also, little bit more power is available short term -- 380W rms. (As this is a class-A Hi-Fi power amp.) ie 380W rms into a single B1 seem like enough power to get full volume out of the cab? FWIW I use lots of compression (I turn the drive knob on my sans-amp to a nice growl -- no other compressor) so the transients mightn't be that 10dB that you mention.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by a boy named sue:

Does 255W rms into 4 ohm stereo (i.e. each channel). Also, little bit more power is available short term -- 380W rms. (As this is a class-A Hi-Fi power amp.) ie 380W rms into a single B1 seem like enough power to get full volume out of the cab? FWIW I use lots of compression (I turn the drive knob on my sans-amp to a nice growl -- no other compressor) so the transients mightn't be that 10dB that you mention.

I think that would be fine. The magic figure for the Low-B2 seems to be about 700W, so 380W would be spot on for a Low-B1. It doesn't matter that that's a short-term rating because it's only for the loudest peaks. And as you say, you're using a lot of compression so that'll increase the apparent loudness significantly.

 

I'd expect a pair of Low-B1s to have a bit more cut than a single Low-B2 due to the extra mid and high drivers - a pair of Low-B2s certainly has more cut than a single cab running at the same volume level.

 

When my hi-fi amp broke at Uni, I used the Acmes driven by my Mackie as my hi-fi. They sounded incredible - very transparent with amazing resolution thanks to that midrange driver dealing with most of the complex detail. Possibly too in your face - more like studio monitors than hi-fi speakers - but you do have the attenuators to tweak things to taste.

 

I'd really like a Low-B1, they're so cute, but I still can't think of a reason why I need one!

 

Alex