Playing with 7-string guitars

[alexclaber]

Had my first 7-string guitar experience last Thursday, when auditioning a guitarist. I didn't actually notice until we jammed on one of his riffs and I had a moment of pitchwise bafflement, "that looks like it's in E but doesn't sound like it!!!"

 

In a moment of 'mine goes lower'-ness I dropped my E-string to B and started making thundering growly noises. It's amazing how the tone of this bass holds together despite the string being rubber band slack. Fun!

 

However, I listened back to the recording later and definitely preferred the vibe when I was playing an octave up, so in the same register as the guitar. Just funkier, groovier and less crushingly heavy. I was pleasantly surprised how little extra sonic space that low B on the guitar takes up - it's like the scale is too short and the string too skinny to get much output from the bass guitar hiding low harmonics and fundamental.

 

I like the thought of being able to head up the neck and play chords and melodies whilst the guitar holds down the bottom, could be very cool!

 

Who's worked with 7-stringers? Any in non-metal contexts? (Didn't George Van Eps do it first in 30s jazz music?) Anyone else done it with an EADG tuned bass? Any other thoughts?

 

Alex

[_Sweet Willie_]

I have not played w/ a 7-string guitarist.

 

Yogi plays a 7-string on occasion -- maybe he'll post from a guitarist's perspective. Bump plays with him. So maybe he can add a bassist's perspective.

 

For clarification, is the low B on a 7-string guitar the same pitch as the B at the 2nd fret of the A-string on a standard-tuned bass?

 

Peace.

--sweet'n'low

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

For clarification, is the low B on a 7-string guitar the same pitch as the B at the 2nd fret of the A-string on a standard-tuned bass?

Yes. It's looooooowwww!!!

 

Alex

[The Fonz]

guitarists take up too much bandwith with their quest for a wall of sound as it is. why do they need to now tresspass into the realm of the low end?

[Scoot]

One of our guitarists got on a 7-string kick for a while until we had to put a stop to it. For those two weeks, any and every C5 chord had to be played at the first fret, every B was an open chord, and every idea for an original he came up with was in B.

 

Classic case of overusing the special goodness.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Scoot:

One of our guitarists got on a 7-string kick for a while until we had to put a stop to it. For those two weeks, any and every C5 chord had to be played at the first fret, every B was an open chord, and every idea for an original he came up with was in B.

I've owned and played a 7-string since 1992, and when I first got mine, I spent an awful lot of time doing what your guy did - lots of riffs in B. You can't really blame him can ya, he's got a new toy to play with!

 

Getting used to seven strings took me about two years of on-and-off playing the thing. The instrument has a very unique feel and I tend to write very differently on it than I do on 6-string.

 

I write a lot of hard rock stuff, but I try really hard not to overdo the "low chords just cuz I can" thing. These days I find myself dropping a low note here and there like you would add any bit of "spice" to something - often people don't notice it, but they feel it.

 

It also really opens up new possibilities for chords, it's cool to be able to FRET a low E, and even better is having an F at the sixth fret - you don't have to head all the way down to the nut every time you want an F anymore, w00t! And as someone who has always loved Drop-D on six string (thanks to "Cinnamon Girl" and VH's "Fair Warning" album), drop-A on a 7 is a lot of fun, too.

 

To me, the 7-string is another tool in the box, and I don't use it to try to compete with the bassist. I can be completely uninspired on a six and pick up the seven and be off to the races.

 

For those who are familiar with our material, the songs "No More Evil", "You Fell", and "Tomorrow Never Knows" are all done on a seven-string, as is my version of "The Imperial March."

[Mike Bear]

My band is metal though it was asked for a non metal context. I'll give a reply anyhow. When I first saw Steve Vai with a 7 string. I wasn't tuning into deeper chords as I was extended solo range and convience on the neck.

 

I have one guitarist who uses a 7-string full time, and one who has a 6-string tuned like a 7. I dislike 7-string abuse in the matter of bands just ridding the "B" and treating it like an "E" string. There's nothing novel or special about it. When we use the low "B" or in our case "A", only one player uses it and it's somewhere I double on my low "B" on my 6-string bass. It's usually not for a whole section and not in every song, and it stands out nicely that way. The guitarist with the 7-string is able to re-finger some more difficult lines in a tighter position.

That's my 2 bits.

 

Mike Bear

[Rik]

My drummer and I, last year, briefly tried to put a Christian band together with a couple guitarists. One of the guitarists had a 7-string Squier Strat. Unfortunately, I suspect the guy didn't know what he was doing when he bought the thing - he didn't even know how to tune it.

[tnb]

I do gigs with a local guitarist whose 7 string is tuned in forths. He sounds great and doesn't invade my sonic space.

[badgerbass]

I played with a 7-string guitar once. And that was enough. The problem was beating of the low notes. At first I couldn't figure out what the noise was. It was when he hit his low B and I was playing a B also. What happens with low frequencies like this is that unless the two notes are perfectly in tune, you get a sort of warbling sound that is the two slightly off notes beating together.

 

I think 7-string guitars are a gimmick. Come on! Can't we just play some music!

 

Guy

[doc taz]

Originally posted by badgerbass:

I think 7-string guitars are a gimmick. Come on! Can't we just play some music!

 

Guy

Not if you're doing solo fingerstyle. Here\'s a guy that does some pretty nifty stuff with 7 strings. He also builds his own guitars.

 

As for rockers doing 7 strings, I don't care. If it gives more depth to a song without cluttering things, then it's cool with me. Just play something already!

[Yogi]

Originally posted by badgerbass:

I think 7-string guitars are a gimmick. Come on! Can't we just play some music!

More gimmicky than 5 or 6-string basses? That seems weird. Why should it matter how high or low the range on a particular instrument is, as long as the music sounds cool?

[_Sweet Willie_]

I've gotta go w/ Yogi on this one.

 

Guy, it seems that your experience indicates more that the specific musician was the issue, not the instrument itself.

 

Yogi gave some examples of how a 7-string opens up his playing, and not simply because of 5 extra low notes: different ways to voice or finger chords, the ability to play longer runs without flying up and down the neck...

 

Basses that extend their range higher and guitars that extend their range lower will increase the overlap of the pitches covered. This means that the musicians need to take responsibility for interfering with each other.

 

I'm sure many of us have noticed differences in keyboard players with whom we've played based on how much they do or do not give us sonic space in the lower register.

 

C. Alex commented that he was surprised at how little sonic space he felt the lowest notes on the 7-string guitar encroached on within his "territory". Maybe this isn't because of the instrument, but also because of the player he was playing with.

 

Just thinking out loud. It always seemed silly to me to reject the inanimate tool rather than re-examine the methods of its user.

 

Peace.

--SW

[ClarkW]

My guitarist uses a 7-string guitar on our songs "The Hammer's Strike" and "The Unbeliever." There are sound files available on the website in my signature.

 

Yes, those songs are pretty "metal." But he uses the low B sparingly; The Hammer's Strike jumps between B minor and F# minor, and it's not like there are tons of low B riffs. The Unbeliever is in C# minor with fairly frequent use of a flat 2nd (D) in the song, so it's nice to be able to have access to those notes (and the 7th, a B) in his low end.

 

I mean, I play a 5-string bass, so it's only fair that he can have a B-string every once in a while, too.

 

And then again, we had a funny moment when it was surely "inappropriate" to use the 7-string. We were rehearsing "Come Sail Away," which is mostly in the key of C, and he was reaching for a guitar next to the 7-string and I said, "Haha, you gonna play it on the 7-string?" So he did. And of course, intentionally, I sat on the low C far too much, and he played every C chord at the 1st fret, and so forth. Was good for a laugh anyway.

[Fred TBP]

In my last steady cover band a few years back I worked with a guitarist who alternated 6 and 7 strings depending on the material. He was great to work with and understood when to use each instrument. As for playing notes together, it was a AWESOME sound! What contributed to that was that he and I paid close attention to what parts we were doing, and at times we would work out note substitutions if the bottom end was too heavy (say I'd play a 5th while he played a 3rd or 7th or 9th) and that's what made the difference.

 

I play a little 7-string guitar besides, which thanks to playing 5 and 6-string basses for years, was easy to translate to. Most of us forget it took more time and practice in the early years to learn how to play something, and it's still true when switching instruments or musical styles - a learning period should be expected.

 

Actually the only complaint I have about 7-string guitars is in most recordings where some of the bass notes are obscured in the mix. I found it hard to learn bass parts on my portable rig or my computer and had to take the CD to someone with a really big stereo (15" woofers and crossovers) to isolate the bass parts. But that too is based on the talent of the producer and engineer recording the mix. Some recent recordings (don't ask me for names, I'm pretty much a dunce when it comes to death metal and goth) sounded like the engineers are getting better at separating way-low-end instruments (kick drum, notes below standard E on bass and guitar) and giving them space and clarity on the final mix. And this is music mixed for boom boxes, dorm-stereos, and videogame processors like PlayStation2.

 

TO sum it up, low-end clashes can be worked out live and in the studio if the players understand their instruments and what the final product needs to sound like. In this, I have a better respect for some recent goth/metal music I've heard lately as opposed to a few years back.

 

(now if I can just remember some of the band names...)

[moot]

My guitarist plays 6 and 7.

The problem with the 7 is tone - he loves the deep, fat, richness while I feel it sucks my tone away if he plays it fat. I play a lot of chords (3 piece band) and we can easily turn our sound to mud if care isn't taken.

The good thing is that our originals are dark and crunchy and as I play 5 string we can get incredibly thick.

Saturday night we were playing a local club and he holstered his 7 and as soon as we started rolling my wife stopped dancing and looked at me with her hand up to her ear. I knew it, I saw it coming as soon as he took it out of the case but I refuse to get into a volume war on stage so I just tweeked my mids a little. It works even if I have to sacrifice my precious tone.

That's just my experience though.