To DI or not to DI...

[spiral light]

I just read an article about recording bass in the latest E. Musician. All examples point towards going through (at a minimum) a DI box --> pre-amp --> compressor --> direct into the recorder, bypassing the mixer altogether.

 

How wouuld this affect/differ from/enhance my current setup of bass --> art pre-amp --> mixer --> compressor (via insert) --> computer/cubase? does the DI box make that much of difference?

 

What's everyones take on this?

[BenLoy]

Your ART preamp is acting like a DI box.

 

A DI box is a little more bare-bones. All it does is take a -20db, high-impedance signal and convert it to a low-impedance mic (-10db) or line (+4db) level signal from its balanced XLR out.

 

Your ART preamp is doing the same thing (as long as you have it set right), but gives you a bit more tone shaping options before you hit your mixer.

 

The most important thing is that the high-impedance output of your bass gets converted to low-impedance before it gets to your computer. Otherwise it sounds really thin and lifeless.

[Afro_Man]

I go bass --> mixer and then add compression and effects at a later date, unless i have a particular sound on a pedal then i include the pedal, but never a compressor, there is one on the computer, plus if you get the levels right before you record you shouldn't need one.

Nic

[spiral light]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

The most important thing is that the high-impedance output of your bass gets converted to low-impedance before it gets to your computer. Otherwise it sounds really thin and lifeless.

Interesting! I found that by going into the board via the xlr gave me a better sound than via the 1/4", is this what you meant by the impedance conversion?

[BenLoy]

Yes. The XLR will give you a better sound going to tape. It's a balanced signal (unless you're using 1/4" TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) connectors.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Ben, I'm not very technical but I can sure name and put a face on many things.

What's the difference between an Active DI and a Passive one?

 

I own an active Bass, so;

1. Which of the above would suit me for studio and gig purposes? (Maily studio purposes)

2. Will it be ok to use say Bass POD or Korg Pandora together with the DI box?

Too many questions but hey, that's what you get for being clever.

Thanx.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

What's the difference between an Active DI and a Passive one?

A passive DI uses a transformer to convert the impedance from high to low, and from unbalanced to balanced. It requires no power and is therefore passive. An active DI uses circuitry similar to a preamp to lower the impedance and balance the signal and requires power (phantom, 9V, wallwart, mains etc) to do so.

 

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

I own an active Bass, so;

You can almost definitely just plug your bass straight into the line inputs in the board and get an accurate sound.

 

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

1. Which of the above would suit me for studio and gig purposes? (Maily studio purposes)

Either. But you don't necessarily need one at all.

 

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

2. Will it be ok to use say Bass POD or Korg Pandora together with the DI box?

Too many questions but hey, that's what you get for being clever.

Thanx.

The Bass POD has a built-in DI (using TRS connectors). You can put any instrument level or semi-pro line level equipment in front of any DI box and it'll work fine. You can even put pro level equipment (which put out a much louder signal) in front of better active (and any passive) DIs and get great sound.

 

It probably seems really anal of me to be wittering on about semi-pro/consumer line level and pro line level as opposed to just dealing with them as one entity. But it's a real pain when you try and plug your Peavey Sessionbass's DI (which turn out to be pro line level) into the mixing desk at gigs and it distorts because the desk is semi-pro levels and can't handle that high an input. Or conversely, try and plug a minidisk player or 4-track recorder (semi-pro line level) into my Audiophile 24/96 soundcard (pro line level) and even when cranked can't get above -10dB on the meters.

 

If you can, get gear with +4dBu outputs and a pad so you can turn it down when you need to interface with semi-pro gear.

 

FYI, -10dBv level is about 0.3 volts, +4dBu level is about 1.2 volts. So the difference isn't 14dB, it's more like 6dB but that's enough to be a pain!

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Thanx a lot Alex.

[AllThumbs]

hey spiral,

 

For what it's worth, a combination of DI and a mic'd cab works really, really well. What I have done on recordings in the past is taken a SansAmp Bass Driver (a great affordable DI box), and thrown a large diaphragm mic about an inch or two off dead center of the cone of a 15" or 10" speaker with whatever was laying around in the studio (Luckily it had been an Ampeg SVT one time and a Hartke 7000 the other). The two signals can be blended and bounced to one track to get an amazing sound. Try it and see if it works for you. Good luck.

 

-Tony

[spiral light]

Originally posted by AllThumbs:

hey spiral,

 

For what it's worth, a combination of DI and a mic'd cab works really, really well. What I have done on recordings in the past is taken a SansAmp Bass Driver (a great affordable DI box), and thrown a large diaphragm mic about an inch or two off dead center of the cone of a 15" or 10" speaker with whatever was laying around in the studio (Luckily it had been an Ampeg SVT one time and a Hartke 7000 the other). The two signals can be blended and bounced to one track to get an amazing sound. Try it and see if it works for you. Good luck.

 

-Tony

Thanks for the info, unfortunately my bass rig is limited to just a bass and an art pre (for my defence, or guilt, I'm primarily a guitarist and have only being playing/recording bass for just over a year). It does bring up another important and relevent question:

 

For a newbie bassist like myself, what would be a simple but effective setup for recording (alsa, my gigging days seem to be over for at least 16 years). Currently I use the method in my original post, I also have a po pro (6 string variety) which could be used. I have been checking out some modellers (line6 & behringer are the two main contenders), does using one of these negate the need for a tube pre or can I still put the tube pre in there somewhere to 'warm' the sound before it gts converted to a bunch of ones & zeros on my pc (I record in to cubase sx).

 

Cheers.

[Max Valentino]

The big trick to recording good sounding stuff at home, esp. to a PC, is to have a good front end; quality mic preamps which can send a +4 signal direct to your soundcard.

It helps to have a high quality soundcard, too...with high quality converters. And it is best to have those housed outside of your computer's mainframe (which is the noisiest thing in your studio).

 

Your ART pre will do this....but those units are a bit noisy, which is only amplified by the whole recording process...and their circuitry is inferior. While they do have a tube in them, it is not in the input stage (that is op-amp controlled), and its effect on the signal is rather negligible.

 

I have had very good results with very high end mic pres, such as the Avalon vt737..but this is a pricey alternative. Recently I recorded thru a Focusrite TrackMAster or VoiceMAster preamp ( I forget which one exactly) and had excellent results..and these sell new for 400-500 dollars.

 

I always try to bypass the mixer..unless it is a big studio with a high quality desk, as most "home studio" mixers simply have terrible mic pres.

 

As to the issue modelling: try running thru a high quality pre and record your bass a well as possible, dry. Then, try applying some modeling software plugins to the tracks. This will provide you with greater options, and imprved sonic quality as you have taken a rich, analog signal and are applying digital treatments (modeling) to it after it is converted to the digital domain.

 

Max