standing up vs sitting down

[bassarama19]

Im a big fan of steve digiorgios (spelling?). Id say I also wear my bass around the dame height as him as well. I really love the sound of the fretless and I think a fretless fingerboard looks even more badass.

 

At any rate I thank you all for your replys.

[getz out]

Originally posted by bassarama19:

Im a big fan of steve digiorgios (spelling?). Id say I also wear my bass around the dame height as him as well. I really love the sound of the fretless and I think a fretless fingerboard looks even more badass.

 

At any rate I thank you all for your replys.

Okay, a couple of more points:

 

1. If you wear your bass at around the same height as Steve Digiorgios AND you lose 35% of your ability to play, you have a serious technique issue. If you look at the picture of him standing that SW posted, you'll see both of his wrists are at non-break angles.

 

2. You are picking and choosing stereotypes: (1) if you wear you bass above your knees, you're a "geek" but (2) if you play an extended range, fretless instrument (which is pretty non-traditional in your rock-context), you're still cool.

 

I'd bet you dollars (US) to doughnuts that you'd get shunned from more gigs for your instrument of choice rather than the height of your bass. Many "rockers" will look at a non-Fender bass and freak. I doubt most would notice a bass at "normal" playing height.

[abaguer]

Do players really want to be in bands that stress how low your bass is slung.

[Steve Lawson]

The easy way out is to get so many pedals that there's no way you can use them standing up, then you get to sit down, buy yourself a nice drum stool, and stop worry about where you left your strap...

 

Works for me...

 

C. Alex - what the hell is Timmy up to in that picture you posted? Is he consciously trying to look like Mr Tumnus from the Chronicles of Narnia? Dude looks like a Fawn...! How high does he play his pan-pipes??

 

And Jeremy - using the Nuge to prove anything other than what a moron the Nuge is is bad form. Stop it...

 

steve

www.stevelawson.net

[bassarama19]

Originally posted by getz76:

Okay, a couple of more points:

 

1. If you wear your bass at around the same height as Steve Digiorgios AND you lose 35% of your ability to play, you have a serious technique issue. If you look at the picture of him standing that SW posted, you'll see both of his wrists are at non-break angles.

 

2. You are picking and choosing stereotypes: (1) if you wear you bass above your knees, you're a "geek" but (2) if you play an extended range, fretless instrument (which is pretty non-traditional in your rock-context), you're still cool.

 

I'd bet you dollars (US) to doughnuts that you'd get shunned from more gigs for your instrument of choice rather than the height of your bass. Many "rockers" will look at a non-Fender bass and freak. I doubt most would notice a bass at "normal" playing height.[/QB]

1.How do we know that steve Digiorgio dosent lose 35% of his skill as well when standing. Thats right we dont, maybe he has a harder time with it, maybe he dosent notcie it at all. My band cut our teeth back in the day on old testament tunes and I played steves parts note for note on the fretless standing up and I could play em fine. But that dosent mean it isnt easier sitting down compared to standing up and playing them.

 

2. Its my personal opinion that a bassist looks..... akward when playing with a real short strap. It is also my opinion that my 6 string fretless not only serves my music better but also looks better as well.

 

3. Well I have my very much beloved 4 stringers that I bring to my other regular consistent gigs so I have no problem when playing under a different band leader.

[Edendude]

Funny about the 'it looks cooler' thing...

 

Most of the musicians I know think that bass players with the instrument slung way low, look like they are developmentally delayed idiots. Which of course could be true, as we have seen here in the opinions of the many, who believe that playing low slung puts you at a big technical disadvantage.

 

It's kind of like that 'wearing your pants on backwards' thing, from a few years back. Doesn't help much with your walking technique, or when you have to go take a pee, but it looks really 'cool' to some people.

 

[getz out]

bassarama,

 

Let's keep things consistent please.

 

Do what you like; that's very important.

 

However, you specifically stated you polled some of your potential audience and found that they felt it looks cooler to have your bass slung low.

 

I was asking several non muscians at my workplace today on what they thought "looked cooler" as far as strap length, and each and every one of them said that it looked more as one person put it "rock and roll" then playing it up high.

It sounds like there is some motivation based on audience perception. That's fine. I'm pointing out the fact that that same audience may think you're a wanker for playing a "non-rock" bass. So your efforts to appease the masses (which you admit hamper your ability to play by 35%) may go to waste since you're not playing a Fender and the audience wonder why you have a weird looking guitar without shiny metal strips.

 

As far as Steve D.'s playing ability at that strap height, I believe it's safe to assume his playing is not significantly hampered. I could be wrong. But just because I cannot prove a negative doesn't make it true and that's a weak debate technique in my opinion. There might be a monster in my file drawer at my office at work. He might live there with a family of monsters and they might have wild disco parties at night when I'm not around. How would I know this isn't true? It could be.

 

Also, no one is telling you what to do.

 

However, some of us have pointed out to you the fact that if something is making it THAT difficult to play (approximately 35% harder), there will be health ramifications. Common sense dictates there is something unhealthy about this. You sound like you really enjoy playing. You might be young and feel indestructible. It'll be a shame 20 years from now when you are in physical therapy because you are having problems squeezing the ketchup bottle. At that point, you won't have to worry about where you sling your bass.

 

I could (hopefully) be wrong. But I personally wouldn't risk it. I know a lot of guys MY age (I'm under 30) that can no longer play through a set because the had horrible technique and hi-action due to the days of hair-metal.

 

The same reason I wear hearing protection. I know too many guys in their mid-30s that can't hear worth a damn anymore. I don't want that to be me.

 

Good luck, just use your head.

[BenLoy]

Good god...no wonder people think bass players are geeks!

 

Okay, in all seriousness...at what length you adjust your strap is a matter of preference as long as the location doesn't hinder your mobility in either hand.

 

Victor Wooten wears his bass high. Jaco wore his high.

 

Tony Levin, Bryan Beller, John Paul Jones and Brian Timpe ( ) wear their basses lower...around the mid-waist area. Their technique doesn't seem to be affected.

 

Norwood Fisher wears his bass extremely low. I've never heard anyone complain about his playing.

 

As long as you don't hurt yourself, I don't see a problem.

 

Me? I wear my bass fairly high:

 

http://eds.org/~tina/pasha_photos/joschi_party_4_24_04/DSCN2265.JPG

[jeremy c]

Yeah, Ben.

But what kind of band is that?

Two laptops and a bass?

No tattoos?

Looks pretty geeky to me.

[BBReBozo]

Dude's wearing a Bleem! shirt.

 

He's the Optimus Prime of geeks.

[BenLoy]

The length of my strap is inversely proportional to how geeky the music is.

[the.circular.motion.rub.it]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Emilio Castillo of Tower Of Power said it all many years ago:

What Is Hip

So ya wanna dump out yo' trick bag.Ease on in a hip thang,But you ain't exactly sure what is hip.So you started to let your hair grow.Spent big bucks on your wardrobe.Somehow, ya know there's much more to the trip.(refrain #1)What is hip?Tell me, tell me, if you think you know.What is hip?If you're really hip,the question, "Will it show?"You're into a hip trip.Maybe hipper than hip.What is hip?{ Trumpet solo/guitar solo }(refrain #1 ends)You became a part of a new breed.Been smokin' only the best weed.Hangin' out with the so called "Hippie set."Seen in all the right places.Seen with just the right faces.You should be satisfied, but it ain't quite right.{ refrain #1 }Come on!(refrain #2)Hipness is. What it is!Hipness is. What it is!Hipness is. What it is!Sometimes hipness is, what it ain't.(end refrain #2){ guitar solo }You went an' found you a guru.In an effort to find you a new you,And maybe even raise your conscious level.While you're striving to find the right road,There's one thing you should know,"What's hip today, might become passe'."{ refrain #1 }{ Trumpet solo }Think about it y'all.{ keyboard solo }{ refrain #2 }What is hip?Ahhhhhhhhh!What is hip?I'd like to know!What is hip?Is it in the style of your hair?What is hip?Is it in the clothes that you wear?What is hip?I'd like to know.What is hip?I'd like to know.What is hip?What is hip y'all? Hey!What is hip?Hey! Oh!What is hip?What is hip y'all?What is hip?I wanna know.What is hip?Ahhhhhhh!What is hip?I wanna know what hipness is.

im starting to think that all the threads in this forum could be tied up with a little ToP, in one form or another

 

.....what is hop?

 

peas

[bubba upright]

What an entertaining post.

 

Bassarama-

As I read through this post, I'd hoped that it wouldn't morph into a 'rock vs. jazz' kinda thing. Based on the post you made earlier about appealing to the masses rather than being 'sonic wallpaper' & 'elevator music' (to paraphrase) you really fueled that fire.

 

I'm guessing that maybe you felt 'attacked' because most of the more seasoned guys (Jeremy, Max, Sweets) wanted to offer suggestions that you should wear your bass higher, because in the long run poor hand position can lead to physical problems with your hands, neck and arms. Even though that wasn't exactly what you asked, I think that everyone here genuinely wants to help you with your development as a player, not to tell you you're an idiot for choosing style over substance.

 

My point is that I don't think that you're going to find too many on this forum that will give you advice to help you look as cool as possible while practicing poor playing technique.

 

FWIW, I can't offer you an opinion on your strap height until I find one big enough for my upright. Until then, I'll just play it on my lap.

 

Signed,

 

A geeky, sonic-wallpaper lovin', ergonomically-correct bassist.

[bubba upright]

BTW, a fretless fingerboard does look badass.

[Tom Capasso]

Wel - if Ben is gonna post geeky pictures (BB - they do have earrings).... I've been watching this thread with some interest. 'rama - do what works for you. If you suffer a loss when slinging low, you have to figure out if it's worth it. There are health issues (as Getz76 has pointed out), but it's up to you. Jason Newstead headbanged his way out of Metallica - there are always tradeoffs.

 

One way to get around the "hang it low to be cool" thing is to trade low for more physical action. I think action on stage is usually viewed as cool.

 

I'm thinking of wearing mine a bit higher. I'm not bending over to reach it, but it's not Loy-height. Also note that even in a crowded space and an 8-piece band, I manage a bit of physical movement...

 

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/7fa12bca/bc/31a2/__sr_/8b60.jpg?ph77WjAB5dXAPRer

 

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/7fa12bca/bc/31a2/__sr_/855a.jpg?phTFXjABiwrnbf6V

 

Note behind me is my Berg (the shiny grill). Underneath that is an Eden WT400 borrowed from 57pbass - thanks again Dan !!!

 

Tom

[Max Valentino]

OK.......I in no means meant to start any kind of "flame war" on this thread...and if I misunderstood your original post I apologize. And, I never considered this to become a rock vs. jazz thread (fwiw: I have seen plenty of jazzers playing low and plenty of rock guys with 'em strapped high. Number of notes notwithstanding, it is ALL about groove). Yet, I must reiterate what has been said here already. If the postion of your instrument in any way hampers your ability to play well (and 35% seems to be quite a lot) and (as pointed out by many of us who do know and understand this) can, and most likely will, lead to physical injury it is not worth pursuing no matter how "cool" it may look (and that perception alone is quite subjective; one of the coolest looking things on this planet is someone playing a musical instrument regardless of musical style or the instrument itself!)

 

Now, I did point out that in my own experience I found having the bass too high caused some compression of the ulnar nerve in my right elbow..and thusly I lowered my strap some. I repeat this to point out that raising the bass excessively can be as dangerous as having it too low.

 

You pointed out (or perhaps it was someone else) that playing low has not caused any physical discomfort, yet..but, rest assured, it will. It is only a matter of time. I have seen this far too often.

 

To point to coolness, and the factor of visual entertainment: the other night I was watching some tv and saw a live bit of a band, whose name I do not know. The bass player played his bass fairly low, with his left hand wrapped around the neck, finger running at a 45degree angle to the frets/strings...as if he were trying to grip a bat or tennis racket. He barely moved, his eyes watching his fretting hand as he feebly tried to "groove" ( it was pretty sad). Basically, he looked as if he had no idea of how to play music on this instrument..and pretty much sounded that way too. A ratrher boring performance by a band which I suppose is doing pretty well (it was on national televison).

 

Now, I agree somewhat about the "performance/entertainment" spectacle, and as a solo artist I am constantly aware of this. But that hardly has anything to do with strap height. As a musician your primary role is not to be a spectacle, but rather to play as well as you can (and here we drift back to that 35% loss of ability). And, in most bands the central focus is not on the bassist, regardless of number of strings, fretted or otherwise. The focus is on the frontman/woman, and the songs. As a professional sideman I have to be very aware of this; I remain in the background. Do I move around? Even dance? hell yes! (sometimes even too much, in which case the "artist" or their management have told me to tame it down a bit as my pressence steals focus from front.

 

In short, anything which detracts from your abilty to play to your fullest potential, and can cause physical harm, cannot be a good thing. The look and its' relative "coolness" has no standing in this whatsoever. It might be, at least in part, becuse of this "style over substance" menatlity that a great number of current bands cannot play and have very little musical know-how.

One of my more frequent gigs out here is is to sub for bass players in bands doing "showcases" for labels. The reason being, while their bassist may look "cool" they cannot play, and that is all to apparent live. So, I do one-off gigs replacing them as their bandmates chase that illusive brass ring......

Then, my other big call is to "ghost" in studios where I go in late at night and replace the feeble tracks played by some of these very same players.

 

Yet, if the look of a low-slung bass is really of a major concern to you (and you do show considerable merit and intelligence in raising the concerns of technical issues of playing with the bass as so...and to seek ways of improving technique with a low-slung bass certainly demonstrates your desire to continually improve your craft...all marks of a good musician), then perhaps you should take pointers from our guitar-toting cousins: bends your knees a bit forward which will bring the bass into a better playing angle; move your weight back onto your heels, which wil raise the neck slightly against your body improving the angle of thfingers over the strings; and lean your shoulders over the bass to create an equal center of gravity.

...and keep regular chiropractic appointments.

 

Best wishes,

Max

[bassarama19]

In retrospect, trying to put a number on how much "harder" it is to play something is kinda bogus. Im not sure how to describe it, i dont feel pain from playing or discomfort, but it does require more thought as my muscle memory does not carry over as well from my seated practicing as well as the fact that your fingers reach is inhibited somewhat I suppose. So looking back now its hard to tell how I came to the 35% figure. And I have nothing but respect for good bass players no matter how high or low they wear their basses. Im just saying from my possibly young, foolish and nieve standpoint. Looking cool in my live rock performance is an important part of putting on a good show and having the crowd wanting you back and performing for them again. Being a great rock performer not only means being a great bass player, it also means looking the part. But im still learning and im trying my best. I thank all of you yet again for your input.

[jeremy c]

You rock, Bassarama19!

 

I like your attitude and wish you much success in the future!

 

(this is serious, I'm not kidding)

[Edendude]

I think it's safe to say that John Entwistle's preference for wearing his bass up high, didn't prevent 'The Who' from getting called back for gigs.

 

And maybe, just maybe, Entwistle would not have become one of the most innovative rock bassists of all time, had he chosen to wear his bass slung way down low instead. Imagine if he had paid more attention to what his mates at work thought was cool, instead of his technique.

 

Just some food for thought...

 

http://www.johnentwistle.com/images/1998/1998fotos/jebje1.jpg

[Tom Capasso]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

You rock, Bassarama19!

 

I like your attitude and wish you much success in the future!

 

(this is serious, I'm not kidding)

I'm serious as well. Your last post was excellent

 

Tom

[getz out]

Agreed, that was a solid.

 

Just do what you do for yourself. Just make sure you don't hurt yourself doing it!

 

Keep it real.

[dcr]

Not everyone is willing to let someone else change their mind. Not everyone whose mind is changed is willing to admit it. So props.

[bassarama19]

sorry to bring this one back but my band just got our website up and theres some live pics of me playing, some with a 4 string and some with the fretless 6 you examine and tell me if my strap is to low. Thanks again.

 

http://www.electricmirage.ca/pics.html

[davebrownbass]

Your wrist was straight. That's the key.