Effects Volume Matching

[Thomas Wilburn]

I'm playing a couple gigs in three weeks that will have good PA support--one fairly small space that ran me direct from the amp last time we played there, and a medium/large club with a huge PA system that I'm sure my combo won't cover. I'd like to just go direct from my BP8 through a DI box into the PA and have them run me heavily into my monitors--less to set up/tear down, less to carry, and it lets the sound guy set my levels instead of having to worry about it myself. The goal is plug and play.

 

Now, I'm assuming that's a workable idea, but I'm worried about the volume level on some of my FX. I want them all to be about the same volume (except for some of the odd ones that I don't plan on using). I've got them set so that they work on a pretty comparable level through both my practice amp (6 inch speaker) and my combo (15 inch speaker), but I'm worried about how the levels will come through on the PA. I'm particularly worried about the two types of distortion I use at different parts of the set, because they seem the least predictable to me.

 

I know I can just set the levels pretty quickly at soundcheck, but I'd rather be as professional as possible and show up with my volumes controlled. Is there any reliable way to set my gain for the PA before I get there? Is there a standard "reference" I could use? Should I try it through headphones or monitor speakers and set them there?

[R.S.M]

The sound guy is not going to run you loud enough through the monitors unless he has a kick ass system , but then other instruments will suffer in the mix.

[Thomas Wilburn]

He does have a kick ass system. At Jaxx, it's frikkin' huge. Jaxx is not the biggest club I've ever seen, but it's a medium-large venue (by my standards), and people like King's X play there. It is way too large for my 200W combo to handle comfortably, and even bands with heavy duty amps I have seen playing there were still run through the PA for the heavy lifting. Drums are miked at this place.

 

I'm not sure why they insist on running us direct at Jammin Java, because it's really just a very large, glorified coffee shop, but I'll take it if it means less equipment to deal with.

 

The other instruments can suffer all they want, really. The system is big enough in both areas to offer me a separate, bass-heavy monitor mix, I'll be able to hear the drums acoustically, and my guitarist has never had a volume problem. In fact, a serious bass mix (through the monitors) will probably be welcomed in both places, because my guitarist is self-taught and has problems keeping his place in a song every now and then. He relies a lot on my bass to keep his timing straight and give him cues.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by Thomas Wilburn:

I've got them set so that they work on a pretty comparable level through both my practice amp (6 inch speaker) and my combo (15 inch speaker), but I'm worried about how the levels will come through on the PA.

Assuming nothing strange is going on, the only thing that will change the relative level of the patches is the frequency response curve of the PA compared to your practice amp and combo, e.g. if the PA system has lots of bottom then bassier patches will seem louder through the PA.

 

If your combo has decent bottom end and the volumes are even on that and the less bassy practice amp, you should be fine. Just in case, can you set the expression pedal on the BP8 to be a volume control?

 

I'm currently suffering my own effects volume matching bugbear: The problem has arisen since adding a true-bypass FX loop switcher and is because some of my buffered bypass pedals do not have unity gain when bypassed (the Boss Flanger and EBS BassIQ are the culprits). Their combined gain is giving me a difference of about 4dB between having the loop bypassed and going through the (individually bypassed) FX pedals. I'm thus adding a trim pot to the loop switcher to match the levels. Why does it always have to get so damn complicated?

 

Alex

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by C.Alexander Claber:

Assuming nothing strange is going on, the only thing that will change the relative level of the patches is the frequency response curve of the PA compared to your practice amp and combo, e.g. if the PA system has lots of bottom then bassier patches will seem louder through the PA.

 

If your combo has decent bottom end and the volumes are even on that and the less bassy practice amp, you should be fine. Just in case, can you set the expression pedal on the BP8 to be a volume control?

 

I'm currently suffering my own effects volume matching bugbear: The problem has arisen since adding a true-bypass FX loop switcher and is because some of my buffered bypass pedals do not have unity gain when bypassed (the Boss Flanger and EBS BassIQ are the culprits). Their combined gain is giving me a difference of about 4dB between having the loop bypassed and going through the (individually bypassed) FX pedals. I'm thus adding a trim pot to the loop switcher to match the levels. Why does it always have to get so damn complicated?

 

Alex[/QB]

That's what I was hoping to hear. I originally had the patches way too low because I was setting them on the practice amp at a really low volume, which was screwing up the EQ. Now I either set them on the larger box or I crank the practice amp just under distortion levels.

 

As for setting volumes, tell me about it. There's about 6 places to set different gain levels on the BP8, plus possibly adding a separate distortion pedal for blend, plus my gain and master volume on the amp. Setting them all up to maintain headroom but still match volumes is a bear--but on the other hand, I'm having a blast playing the damn thing.

 

Instead of starting a new thread, I'll ask a question here--the BP8 is a tube preamp for the distortion with a generic 12AX7 tube in it. The distortion is good, but I'd like something a little heavier on demand since I can't blend in a dry signal with it. Does anyone know any good replacement tubes that will be fairly warm in my preamp stage (I like lots of mids in my clean channel) but can give me a Wrath-of-God distortion when really driven (think Amy from Clatter)? I have never had to deal with a tube amp before, and I've got no idea where to start.