Differences between a bass amp and keyboard amp?

[bassdrummer]

What are the differences between a bass amp and a keyboard amp? I'm referring, I suppose, to combo amp/cab configurations such as Roland and Carvin keyboard combo amps; Carvin now has a keyboard amp head as well. With all EQ knobs/sliders/effects set flat, how would a bass sound differently through a keyboard rig as opposed to a bass rig? What about V-Drums? I ran my V-Drums through a Carvin R600 and 2x10 Redline cab -- the sound was horrible. I started with all EQ flat, then shaped the tone in different ways, but never could get a decent drum sound. Just wondering if a keyboard amp/system would be better for bass and V-Drums. Has anyone ever played bass through a keyboard amp?

[Dave Martin]

I've done it, but keyboard amps generally have horns (for extra high end) and a response curve that I don't care for. Bass amps are (generally) voiced for the bass.

[dcr]

Aside from voicing/tuning, is there a significant risk of blowing out drivers, as can happen with guitar amps?

[scyzoryk]

Bass amps are created to emphasis the deep, low sounds. Keyboard amps are probably designed to bring out the bells and whistles and high notes the keyboard makes.

 

My friend plays his electric guitar through a bass amp and it sounds phenomenal.. no idea how a bass would sound through a keyboard amp or vice versa.

[doc taz]

Originally posted by dcr:

Aside from voicing/tuning, is there a significant risk of blowing out drivers, as can happen with guitar amps?

Not if there's enough power pumping through the amp, and if the speakers are properly designed. Keyboards are capable of massive low end, too. You need that for the organ sounds, for instance, and a lot of the modern synth tones demand it.

[PhilMan99]

I'm no engineer, but you may find that bass-amps are typically "ported" to a) improve low-end response and b) let the speaker move back and forth more, whereas keyboard amps are sealed.

 

If true, this would make a big difference in the sound. As for what you like, well, that's different. Ported cabinets probably sound "muddy" or "boomy" to some people, whereas sealed would sound "tighter" or more "sterile". Personally, I go pretty heavy on the "mud" in my rigs...

[mound]

I find that playing my Roland stage piano through my bass rig (SWR SM500 + 4x10 Goliath III cab) sounds pretty damn good.. the 4x10 has a horn in the middle, and the SM500 has some tone controls.. I have always wondered that myself, what exactly the difference was.. I'm primarilly a bass player, but been playing piano lately, and I see no pressing need to go buy a standalone keyboard amp.

 

-Paul

[Flash Bazbo]

On the V-drum side, I run my Rolands through a Carvin keyboard amp as my stage monitor before sending the signal to the board. A keyboard amp is vastly superior to a bass amp for this application. Keyboard amps offer good response over a broad frequency spectrum. Bass amps can never do justice to cymbal and snare sounds. (They're not supposed to.)

[getz out]

I think one would notice less difference between modern keyboard and bass amplification than 10 or 15 years ago.

 

Most keyboard amplifiers have less tone shaping options bass amps but more inputs to accommodate multiple modules. They are often set for stereo amplification.

 

The trend for bass amps to sound more "transparent" than they historically have in the past has blurred the line between bass and keyboard amplification. This is often why you see acoustic guitar players using modern bass amplifiers as well.

 

If I remember correctly, the Carvin keyboard amp looks like a Carvin "Cyclops" bass combo with additional inputs. It would probably serve better for the purpose you're looking for (bass, v-drums, etc.).

[alexclaber]

Gross generalisations.

 

An Ampeg B15 is a bass amp. An Avalon preamp into a QSC power amp into some Acme cabs is also a bass amp. They sound completely different.

 

On the whole, keyboard amps stive for flat response (but generally fail to achieve it). Many bass amps are coloured in one way or another but there are more and more available that have flatter and less coloured sound than typical keyboard amps and even PA systems.

 

Alex

[Tom Capasso]

Originally posted by getz76:

I think one would notice less difference between modern keyboard and bass amplification than 10 or 15 years ago.

I'm with Getz on this. As some bass amps/cabs widen their range, there is less difference. You still have to watch for what the objective of the equipment is.

 

A keyboardist I work with used my Berg 1x12 and loved it. I doubt that the Berg 322 would be as good, because it is tuned to a different sound (though it might sound fine).

 

Tom

[Edendude]

In my experience...

 

Modern KB amps are just small PA systems in a box. So if you like the sound of your bass through stage monitors alone, you'll probably like it through a KB amp. And as suggested above...If the KB amp has plenty of power and headroom, no damage should result.

 

I much prefer the tailored response curve of a bass rig, personally.

[g.]

Most keyboard combos and bass combos are very similar in cab design.

 

Odd that nobody has noted one of the major differences between preamp input impedance and gain facilities. Passive basses benefit from much higher input impedances; keyboards are on the other hand output various line-level signals and don't need to worry about capacitance loading.

 

Most keyboard combos have modest mixers for several inputs, sometimes one for vocals as well.

 

When keyboard rigs go upscale into separates they indeed tend to become really good PAs, improving the keyboard need for full even response and good low frequency power handling. But then, more bassists are heading that way too - some companies like Bag End even sell essentially the same cabs under either category.

 

I've seen keyboardists use a few favored bass cabs too, as whole or part of their rigs. This includes Acme and Flite among others. The lines blur because it makes sense, always has.

[g.]

To get a better idea the hybridization, look at the Carvin AG100D Acoustic Guitar Bass & PA amp. This sounds killer with upright too, and is a fantastic keyboard rig.

 

Carvin built around their Cyclops biamp bass combo to come up with the KB1015, their P200 cab and speakers for the KB100, and their RC210 Red Eye Tilt Back became the KB1010, imporved with a 1000 watt power stage instead of the 600 watt one.

 

Take a look!

[getz out]

This bass amp:

 

http://www.carvin.com/images/thumb/RL6815.jpg

 

looks strangely similar to this keyboard amp:

 

http://www.carvin.com/images/thumb/KB1015.jpg

 

Don't judge a book by its cover, but when you take a look at the specifications, they are rather similar, sans the preamp section mentioned by myself and the nameless one.

[g.]

One of the local keyboarders bought an Acme B2, and then another one to run in stereo, after working with one of the local bassists who uses a first-gen B2 for URB and EB work. Bought my old Mackie 12 mixer too : }

[dcr]

Originally posted by   :

Passive basses benefit from much higher input impedances; keyboards are on the other hand output various line-level signals and don't need to worry about capacitance loading.

Thanks for the info. Could you tell me what this means, where the rubber meets the road?

 

This is very interesting to me. I'm attracted by the idea of using more than just "bass gear" to run bass. That might have something to do with the fact that my first real bass rig was a preamp (Peavey Bassist) into a standard PA power amp. I had tons of power & awesome tone.

[g.]

Simply put, passive pickups are HIGH impedance and LOW output, and need a preamp designs that compensates.

 

Plugging passive basses directly into mixers or keyboard preamps CAN work but unless they are sufficiently high impedance at input or have tons of gain available, it will really hurt the tone and and signal-to-noise ratio of the bass.

[getz out]

Originally posted by   :

Plugging passive basses directly into mixers or keyboard preamps CAN work but unless they are sufficiently high impedance at input or have tons of gain available, it will really hurt the tone and and signal-to-noise ratio of the bass.

But, this can be compensated with the right preamp, either in the bass itself or as an outboard unit.

[g.]

Yep. Simple stuff too.

[dcr]

Got it. Thanks! This opens up a lot of options.

[a boy named sue]

The options are how many pedals do I need, what should they be and in what order to I put them!

 

Incidentally, behringer have a DI that will split the signal and let you plug into a PA and a keys amp (say). This costs around $40 AUD which means, by normal bass gear conversion, they pay you to take it in the US.