Narrow-minded

[tnb]

Sweet Willie, are you implying that ol' skool funk standard "Flashlight" is synth bass? Take it back, don't make me come over there!

 

Seriously, not liking the Doors or organ trios does not mean I have my head stuck up my *ss. I also don't like Fender Rhodes or tofu, so what?

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by tnb:

Sweet Willie, are you implying that ol' skool funk standard "Flashlight" is synth bass? Take it back, don't make me come over there!

 

Lotsa Bernie's left hand, baby.

 

C'mon out to Chi-town and we'll throw down! (Don't forget your Woods amp, though. It only needs a one-way ticket. )

[g.]

I'm just going to go after some Barbara Dennerlein and think about how many bassists she's probably PISSED OFF, based on the material of hers I've heard so far ; }

[tnb]

Bernie plays GREAT bass parts. I have nothing but love for Mr. Worrell (and Donna, his bass player).

 

I would love to take you up on your offer to throw down, but can we wait until it is a little warmer. Call me a coward but Chicago might be the coldest place on Earth in the winter.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by tnb:

Call me a coward but Chicago might be the coldest place on Earth in the winter.

Go visit greenboy.

 

Or some of our Canadian friends.

 

NYC's had some colder temps this year than we have had in Chi-town.

 

If you come visit we will do a tour of Lakland, visit Rob Elrick, perhaps take a spin out to Bag End, and then spend some time w/ Dan Lenard of the Luthiers Access Group.

[jeremy c]

Random Comments.

 

Stevie Wonder and Bernie Worrell were probabaly not playing other parts while laying down their bass tracks, and if they were they certainly were not improvising with the other hand.

 

On the other hand, I saw the Doors live and Ray Manzarek did just fine. But of course the basslines were simple triads. Nothing like Flashlight or Boogie on Reggae Woman and nothing anywhere near what the typical jazz organist does.

 

I saw Joey DeFrancesco live and was pretty knocked out by him. It didn't bother me in the slightest that he didn't have a bass player.

 

I notice that Harvey Brooks (a big early influence for me) will be teaching at the Arizona Bass Camp that Ed Friedland mentioned. Maybe someone can ask him about his Doors experience.

[g.]

Plus she's a babe:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200_web/drp100/p147/p14737vru39.jpgThis is her with Jimmy Smith: http://www.bebabrecords.com/images/gallery/gallerypic10.jpg

 

And HERE is her site which also is home for her record company.

[g.]

And now I'm looking back into Pat Martino's career. Before he had an aneurysm lost his memory and forgot entirely every single thing about guitar, music and playing he made some remarkable records with organ players, he was really a monster innovator and line-crosser.

 

I understand that years later, after brain surgery and psychological and physical trauma he painstakingly reconstucted himself, a blank slate, largely by learning to play the guitar again by retracing his steps in his recordings.

 

Talk about a STORY of human spirit!

[Banta]

I find it difficult to enjoy any music that has no bass guitar.

[doc taz]

Originally posted by wraub:

Actually, I was never a Doors fan, even before I knew about their lack of proper instrumentation.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

On most of the Doors' studio recordings, they did use a session bassist. So there indeed was some bass guitar action, just not live.

[fanger]

There are probably some tuba players out there that don't care for The Doors either because they didn't use any in their music. It's all about what you like.

 

As for myself, I enjoy hearing different types and styles of music. Some bluegrass groups can be smoking, yet almost all of the groups do not use drums. As long as I like what is being played, I don't really care what instruments are involved.

 

I am a huge Stevie Ray Vaughan guy. One time in New Orleans, I saw a 3 piece band - keyboard, bass & drums - do "Pride & Joy". Playing "Pride & Joy" with no guitar should be considered sacreligious - but these guys pulled it off great.

 

I've had a love affair with the bass for a lot of years. But if the music being produced is quality music and I like the style of music, it doesn't matter one iota if a bass is used or not.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[g.]

I don't know about "most" Taz. I think "some" is more accurate. But I'd have to go back and listen to a lot of material. I know they maded their mark with Manzarek-played lines. manzarek was/is a pretty amazing player.

 

Just to heap fuel on the dim smokey thang that passes for a fire around here, I found THIS ARTICLE in a newssite from the state that really hated The Doors. Wowie zowie, it mentions The Doors while talking about the White Stripes.

 

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/29/photos/flo-death.jpg

[g.]

Speakin' of the tuba, the Dirty Dozen Brass Band don't need no lame 4-string player to really groove.

[BenLoy]

Originally posted by '73 P-Bass:

Originally posted by lowfreq:

I just bought a Joey Difrancesco Cd, same deal, great player on the B3, no Bassist, it will find its way to the bottom of the playlist

That's who I saw.

Okay, I'm sorry. You got to see Joey Freakin' DeFrancesco play live in front of you and you didn't dig it just because there wasn't a bass player?????

 

The next thing I know you'll all be dissing Charlie Hunter because his stunning mastery of the guitar has allowed him to do away with a bassist as well...

 

I dunno, man. Were you listening to the music he was playing? Joey's left hand is fierce (when playing groove music, organ players usually use the second manual rather than the footpedals...it's a bit more percussive), and I certainly don't miss a bass player when a great organist is doing his thing.

 

You guys keep talking trivialities about whether some guy was plucking four or more strings in the corner...are you guys threatened or what? Maybe some of us are afraid to admit that their mastery of the low end as just a facet of their playing puts many bass players to shame?

[earljam]

The Young Rascals didn't have a bass player when I saw them on a retrospective of The Ed Sullivan Show. They also played better than everyone who did, including the Stones.

[57pbass]

I have seen Dr Lonnie Smith play the Hammond Pedals on many many occasions and his mastery of the bass pedals is amazing. On my list of great bass performances.....

 

If the organ is EQ'ed and amplified properly its right up there with the best bass sounds available.

 

I never felt cheated - If I wanted to see a band play with a bass player - I would not go out and see a Hammond trio.

I have felt cheated when I have gone out to see a band and the bass player was weak.....

[Wally Malone]

The Pat Martino CD recorded live at Yoshi's with Joey De' stays in my rotation. In San Jose there's a organ player, Chet Smith who I love going to see and hear. He dances on his foot pedals and plays bass lines that would humble most bass players. Good music is worth listening to whether or not there is a bass player.

 

Wally

[lowfreq]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

 

The next thing I know you'll all be dissing Charlie Hunter because his stunning mastery of the guitar has allowed him to do away with a bassist as well...

 

I dunno, man. Were you listening to the music he was playing? Joey's left hand is fierce (when playing groove music, organ players usually use the second manual rather than the footpedals...it's a bit more percussive), and I certainly don't miss a bass player when a great organist is doing his thing.

 

You guys keep talking trivialities about whether some guy was plucking four or more strings in the corner...are you guys threatened or what? Maybe some of us are afraid to admit that their mastery of the low end as just a facet of their playing puts many bass players to shame?[/QB]

Im not dissing the tunes, his playing or the players because there great. What I am saying is

there is nothing trivial about bad mixing, EQ,or if organ bass inherently lacks definition,IMO the notes lacked percusiveness. I might have a little more appreciation for that left hand if there was some note definition. On two of the tracks it, they seem to give the low end some boost, and you feel it, sounds good, as for the rest it sounds like one continuous tone that changes pitch occasionally.

Im not writing Joey D off by any sense of the word,his talents are amazing, and anybody would kill for his groove sense, but I think a Bass Player in this ensemble would have had his own space in the mix,there would have been more thump and some space between the notes.

On another note, Charlie Hunter is incredible, I havent checked him out much other than on a PBS special one night, I didnt think what he was playing was possible.

 

BTW The CD is called Ballads and Blues by Joey DeFrancesco

Byron Landham Drums

Paul Bollenback Guitars

Pat Martino Guitar on 2 Tracks

Gary Bartz Saxophone

Papa John D 2nd B3 on 1 Track

John DeFrancesco Guitar on 1 track

Check it out for yourself

[passgroove]

Dr. John's duo and trio with John Scofield was realy good withaout a bassplayer so it depends on players.

[jeremy c]

I saw the Young Rascals live when I was in high school. Yep, no bass player. They were incredible.

 

And that was in the days before they miked the drums. But there was no problem hearing Dino Danelli's foot on his 26" bass drum.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

But there was no problem hearing Dino Danelli's foot on his 26" bass drum.

I love drummers like that! So many rock drummers hit the snare and toms so hard and forget that their kick should be acoustically balanced, it shouldn't need miking to match the rest of the kit's volume.

 

And big diameter kick drums can have a much snappier attack and more midrange character than smaller drums at the same tuning, so they cut through much better - like 34" Fenders vs 30" Gibsons - can you imagine a world where we were all still playing short-scales? Muuuuddddd...

 

Alex

[Edendude]

Jimmy Smith's live classic album 'Root Down' proves that a great Hammond player always sounds better with a great bassist.

 

How many of you guys have heard the album, by the way?

 

But to play devil's advocate...

 

Tom Waits song 'Hang On St. Christopher' has one of the funkiest Hammond pedal basslines I have ever heard. Anyone familiar with the track?

[Tom Capasso]

I haven't seen any of these folks you're talking about live. When I hear the music, I need to hear a bass part, and I usually don't care too much what it's played on. When I see a live band, I might enjoy the music, but I feel a kinship to the bass player. The absence of a bass guitarist, or at least an upright player, means I don't make that special connection. That means I'm "left" with the music. And that's been OK. I listen for, and love, the sound of bass. Going to my kids' concerts over the years (concert bands and orchestras), I didn't expect to see a bass guitar. I still enjoyed it.

 

As to The Doors, I used to find that the songs I liked were not the big popular stuff. Now that we do some of it in my band, I appreciate it a bit more. My fav is "Love Street" (jsut to show you where I'm coming from). I listened to Morrison's poetry recording and got nothing out of it.

 

Tom

[73 P Bass]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

Originally posted by '73 P-Bass:

Originally posted by lowfreq:

I just bought a Joey Difrancesco Cd, same deal, great player on the B3, no Bassist, it will find its way to the bottom of the playlist

That's who I saw.

Okay, I'm sorry. You got to see Joey Freakin' DeFrancesco play live in front of you and you didn't dig it just because there wasn't a bass player?????

 

The next thing I know you'll all be dissing Charlie Hunter because his stunning mastery of the guitar has allowed him to do away with a bassist as well...

 

I dunno, man. Were you listening to the music he was playing? Joey's left hand is fierce (when playing groove music, organ players usually use the second manual rather than the footpedals...it's a bit more percussive), and I certainly don't miss a bass player when a great organist is doing his thing.

 

You guys keep talking trivialities about whether some guy was plucking four or more strings in the corner...are you guys threatened or what? Maybe some of us are afraid to admit that their mastery of the low end as just a facet of their playing puts many bass players to shame?

Your missing my point. I apreciated how talented all three of them were, I enjoyed the show, but for me personally, I would have enjoyed it more if there was a bass player. This is all subjective. What I enjoy,is what I enjoy, to each his (or her) own.

Maybe he was having a bad night; one of the people I went with fell asleep.

[g.]

So what added value is it when the bass player is a gurl? ; }

[g.]

Listening to some of my good old vinyl again:Arthur Blythe's Lenox Ave Breakdown from 1979. Cool groovin' band with

• James Newton - flute
  
• James Blood Ulmer - electric guitar
  
• Jack DeJohnette - drums
  
• Guillermo Franco - percussion
  
• Cecil McBee - acoustic bass
  
• Bob Stewart - tuba
  

As with the Dirty Dozen Brass Band, the tuba guy cooks so good that the doghouse can be soloing, laying out, doubling, or KIND of doubling, with different octaves, accents, diversions, etc.

And vice versa - the doghouse can be doing the main bass line while the tuba joins the other horns or plays another riff entirely with James Ulmer's delta harmolodic chord riffs, or WHATEVER. IT just gets SO mixed up like gumbo when you have a groove-oreinted set of compositions like this, and a bunch of guys who all listen to each other on all levels. Anyone who knows Jack DeJohnette's skillz can dig that he can hold down the fort while doing about ten other things melodic and rhythmic -

 

These guys are the grownups. They can take it anywhere. Everybody has freedom because everybody has and can handle responsibility. The bass role or any other role could be thrown around like a basketball coming down-court - without it EVER being less than groovin' and dancin' - everybody is just makin' game bigtime.

 

I would have loved to see this music live! In fact, I practically can see it when I listen to it!

[g.]

I'm listening to music where whales provide a lot of the bass parts, with nary a Fender to be seen or heard: various Paul Winter stuff. That could eventually lead me to works by Oregon and Paul McCandless.

[bubba upright]

Soulive........no bass guitar, still pretty cool.

[RobT]

Originally posted by bubbaupright:

Soulive........no bass guitar, still pretty cool.

Finally. I was wondering when someone was gonna mention them.