_Sweet Willie_ Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 The periodic emergence of the threads about 4, 5, 6, and more string basses and the constant reference to being "tasteful" on the low B string got me to wonderin': What songs/pieces/compositions/tunes/etc. that utilize the lowest notes of the low B string do you think just wouldn't sound as good or sound "right" if you were to play them an octave higher? Please note we're talking about personal opinion here -- so really no right or wrong answers (kind of like English class, except here you haven't been asked to defend your position in 5 pp or less! ). I leave the issue of transposition in key (vs. a full octave shift) open for discussion. I will first offer a tune that I bring up with some regularity around here: "Fight for Your Mind" by Ben Harper (off the album of the same name). Juan Nelson's line is outrageously yummy, and just doesn't have the same impact played higher. For those of you who are exclusively 4-stringers who tend not to tune below E, have you met a tune that just wasn't workin' for you despite your best efforts when you had to transpose parts "traditionally" played below the E? Next? spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Freeway of Love by Aretha Franklin. Randy Jackson plays the bass. I think he doubled his bass line on a synth. There is a low D in the main riff. You can't play them an octave higher without it sounding really strange. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 You stole my thunder with Juan Nelson's work with Ben Harper. "Mama's Tripping" also comes to mind. I could be because he's the only melodic/harmonic instrument in rhythm section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpyoldman Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Collective Soul's "Why Pt. 2" comes to mind - you can certainly play it on a 4 string detuned to D, but then the bassline doesn't quite flow properly. And you just can't get that impact of the walk up from low B back to the D of the verse either. Some things are just meant for growl I guess. the Grump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurge Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 The only bass I have is a 4-string and there were times when I really missed the lower string. One of the songs we played was in dropped D and the part called for a slide from the low D and down. So, instead of just using the low B, I had to detune the string on the downbeat then tune it back on the upbeat, rinse and repeat. I tried using the high D but it sounded terrible...thank God it was only for about 6 measures! It was definitely one of those times where I kept looking over at the other bass player in the band (yeah, we had two...) and longing for that 5th string that blessed his bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 "Lark's Tongues in Aspic, Part II" by King Crimson. Just doesn't have the brutal impact on those low D's when it's an octave higher. "Steam" by Peter Gabriel, most notably the live version from "Secret World Live". Bassplayer on both: Mr. Tony Levin. On the personal front: Damn near everything that Beller played below open low E on Yogi's albums that I now get to gleefully play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 I'd name a shitload of songs, but it'd just be another brick in the - . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gord -B Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Been listening to a lot of Gary Willis Magic with Tribal Tech and I think some of his way lowdown grooves are amazing. It has the gut wrenching affect that Ben Harpers - Fight for your mind's bass line has. Listen to Tribal Tech - Face First, he's riding the low B like a beast at some points. And the muting effect, ooooohhhhh..... Derek Smalls: It's like fire and ice, basically. I feel my role in the band is to be somewhere in the middle of that, kind of like lukewarm water. http://www.myspace.com/gordonbache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Malone Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Johnny A's "Sometime Tuesday Morning" groove in the A section of the tune relies on low D on the B string. I really like this tune and get to play it in the duo with guitarist Jeff Mayer. Wally I have basses to play, places to be and good music to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Fhtagn Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Alot of the older Sabbath (Iron Man, for example). I find a lot of their stuff requires me to detune my E to a D. For some reason, detuning my 4-string is the equivelent of chewing aluminum foil. I just don't like it. This is why next week I am going shopping for a 5 string (please don't flame me, BGO). So is it true? Once you go "B", you never go "E"? Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Gord-B, I just light up any time I think of some neanderthal telling Gary Willis or Tony Levin not to use the B-string so damn much because it isn't "tasteful". Har-har-har! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpyoldman Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Social Critic, It's true! the Grump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba upright Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Steely Dan's "Gaslighting Abby" from 2 Against Nature. Love Tom Barney. "Study, study, study...or BONK BONK bad kids!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattC Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Social, that's a smart idea. I've been in bands that seemed to always tune in D (or drop D for our guitar playing friends). I am not about to detune any of my basses and change the tension on my neck. Instead, I play all the low D notes on the B string. Ya know what else I do? I love to play Double Trouble, but their parts are written in half-step. I play their songs rooted on the fourth fret and I can keep from downtuning. ...think funky thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockwoodB Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 RHCP - The Righteous & The Wicked "Let your life be a counter friction to stop the machine." --Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 i would have to chck , but i beleieve "superstition" by Stevie Wonder was in E flat- it sounds silly up an octave with a 4 banger- and just about everything else !! i love to drop those lo octaves in those older tunes, it fattens them right up! Bumpcity!! Larks Tongues in Aspic? Holy crap, man! i thought i was the only that ever played that song! except i played it way back when- the original verion that was on an older King Crimson record.. i think it was John Wetton on that version and no lo b, i have to hear the Levin version!!! I used to play that tune on an ancient Framus electric upright i had with strap pins so i could walk around with it... yes, it was drug induced.... Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Hah, I have all the early King Crimsons before that album (scratchy vinyl, one replaced by CD), and Starless and Bible Black after it. Adrian, you freak! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 so was "Larks" on " In the Court of the Crimson King"? another one that as fun was "Another Red Nightmare"- gosh, i hope Im remembering those correctly... my favorite band at the time?-- GENTLE GIANT !!!! what a friggin band!!! Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 No it was on ... Lark's Tongue In Aspic. That was the changeover to Wetton (I think). . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcr Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Yes, "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" was Wetton's first album with KC (followed by "Starless & Bible Black"--an album with absolutely SICK live improvs!!--and "Red," as well as some live compilations from that period). I'd like to hear Levin's version of it; but I do believe that Wetton's line on the original "LTiA Part II" can be played entirely on a 4-string in standard tuning. I can certainly see the point of plugging in some sub-E notes on that one, though. I think Wetton's right-in-your-face tone sort of makes up for it! OT: I've often fantasized about doing an instrumental medley running seamlessly from "LTiA Part I" to "The Talking Drum" to "LTiA Part II." Killer. (When that screaming, distorted violin is chopped off by those razor-sharp guitars, I smile wide every time!) Ditto "Gaslighting Abby." I've tried it on 4, & it's not quite the same. I've noticed that in CCM/P&W music, 5 strings seem to be the norm, so I guess a lot of those songs are "meant" for 5. Still, I'm skeptical; I've certainly heard a number of those tracks where pounding on the B string seems to take the place of actual harmonic ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Like pounding on the E or A strings isn't the same thing - only higher ; } . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 dcr, aren't you a Pink Floyd fan? See above, a few posts. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted December 10, 2003 Author Share Posted December 10, 2003 "Every Ghetto, Every City" from The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill is a sweet low B-string bassline courtesy of Tom Barney. However, as much as I like how it sounds, I haven't tried it up an octave , so I'm not sure how it would sound w/ out those really deep lows... spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcr Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Originally posted by greenboy: Like pounding on the E or A strings isn't the same thing - only higher ; }Agreed. (My point was just that, on those songs, I think those extra-low notes could give way pretty easily to more interesting phrases in a higher octave. And would probably sound better overall. But of course you're right that 4-stringers can commit exactly the same sin, as can effects-users, & well, everybody.) And I'd gotten your Floyd reference! But I want to say that the original line (to "Brick part II," no?) had E as the lowest note. (In any case, if you're gonna play that one, your lowest note needs to be HUGE, whatever it is!) HOWEVER, Guy Pratt has been doing some wicked reinterpretations of Floyd lines that require 5 strings (I'd have to check whether his version of "Brick part II" is one of them). Awesome stuff. He's opened up some exciting new possibilities in those songs, while staying very true to the spirit of them (i.e. they still sound like Floyd songs). Gotta love Guy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Cruisin' For Bruisin' by Basia goes between Fm and Db with a cool little bass line. The song sounds terrible without a low Db. Here's the line in (gasp) tab: G ---------------------------------------- D ---3-1-3----3-1-3-------3-1-3-----3-1-3- A ---------------------------------------- E -1--------1----------------------------- B --------------------2----------2-------- Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted December 10, 2003 Author Share Posted December 10, 2003 That's all well and good, Jeremy, but how long is each note? Furthermore, are there any dynamics I should be aware of? Oh wait, my bad, I forgot for a moment that you wrote it in tab! spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Originally posted by bassaddik: Larks Tongues in Aspic? Holy crap, man! i thought i was the only that ever played that song! except i played it way back when- the original verion that was on an older King Crimson record.. i think it was John Wetton on that version and no lo b, i have to hear the Levin version!!!Larks Tongues in Aspic pt II is a heavy-ass mofo of a song. Actually, probably my favorite version of that song is from 'Live In Argentina: official bootleg' (I think it was the B'Boom tour). It not only has Tony Levin on bass, but Trey Gunn on stick as well. Heavy, heavy, heavy. There is one phrase in that song that is repeated a number of times that I always have trouble playing. I need to work doing this some more: G----------12-- D-------11----- A----10-------- E--9----------- The Wetton era KC stuff is just killer. 'Red' is probably my favorite album of that period of the band. "One More Red Nightmare" and "Red" were songs that a drummer friend and I would screw around with during rehearsals all the time. That was fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 man! is it just me, or is that tab stuff just too weird to make out?? seriously people, if you got the brains to figure out tab, PLEAS learn notation! I know Jeremey and Bumpcity put up tab for the sake of being able to use text.. and that does "look" line what i used to play for Larks... sorry for the outburst... Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnb Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Adrian, what are you saying? The more bass players that continue to learn songs by tab, the more work that we will get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 duh!!.. er.. oh , yeah!! keep that tab comin!! thats it!! ( thanks, bro...) Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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