Gene Simmons on "credibility" in rock

[R.S.M]

i,ve recentally seen kiss with aerosmith in illinois at the tweeter center i have not listened to them in 12 to 15 years an occasional rock n roll all nite on radio i have a bunch of there albums from when i was a kid hotter than hell was the first album ive ever owned .Let me tell ya they rocked out.People may not like them but they are musicians and credible. Think about how many albums and songs they have written .They were putting out albums 1 a year for a while .Theyve probally written more songs than most people have played on this site.

my say is kiss rocks

[Tom Capasso]

Interesting...

 

I like the quote that Jode provided. I think it shows respect for the studied musicians vs. the not-so-studied musicians, whether either type had commercial success or not.

 

I have trouble giving lots of credit to people that have lived the "rock and roll lifestyle". They've seen things I've never seen (and mostly didn't want to) and done things I've never done (again...). It makes me wonder if Simmons is starting to grow a bit if he can recognize that his band is in a different place than more studied musicians.

 

I still find his marketing approach crass, but that's me.

 

I love the first KISS album, and bands I was in did "Strutter" for years. I didn't follow along much after that.

 

I'm not getting into what credibility means, because it's too broad and circumstantial. Just the same, thanks for your thoughts on it - gave me something to chew on.

 

And thanks to greenboy - I laughed out loud at the Jimmy Haslip comment. It reminds me of a DelAmitri song, where they sing "has Ginger Baker died"

 

I'm credible in many areas, but only marginally so as a musician.

 

Tom

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by Warlock1016:

It all depends on how you define so-called "credibility." There's an excellent article about the deaths of Robbin Crosby (Ratt) and Dee Dee Ramone (both died about the same time), and according to Rock Critic types, we're supposed to care more about the fact that Ramone died, than Robbin, because his music was more "important."

 

On a related rant, the one time Kiss tried to do something to please the critics (The Elder), it blew up in their face. (Granted, this came after Dynasty and Unmasked, two rather weak pop albums.)

 

It's a catch-22, no matter what. If you want to create "art", you're arrogant. If you want to play the biggest arenas possible, and bust your ass to get there, and be paid well for doing so, you're arrogant again.

 

It's enough to make weaker people go off to be dental-floss salesmen.

 

I'm done with my rant. I'll now go back to my little corner. Thank you.

Actually, "Music From The Elder" was the only album they ever did that I thought was worth a crap. Like they actually were trying to do something important from a musical perspective. It wasn't a great result, but it was definitely a great effort.

[g.]

Dental Floss?

 

...Ponder the significance ; } - or should I say pander the significance, given the tone of the ... thread.

 

"Montana. It's a place."

 

; }

[danb291]

Tom- I don't think you truly mean what you said about giving credibility to those who have lived a "rock and roll lifestyle"

 

For instance, Hendrix, the Stones, Zeppelin and the Who all had wild and crazy "rock and roll lifestyles" yet I doubt anyone would question the credibility of those musicians.

 

Then what separates those from the rockers and rollers who lack credibility? Simply that you don't like their music as much or find it as interesting?

[Jode]

I just thought of something. Gene Simmons was the first musician to make me say to myself, "I wanna do THAT when I grow up." Now, my musical taste has evolved quite a bit past "Love Gun," but it all started with me strumming a tennis racquet and wishing I could breathe fire and spit blood.

 

So, thanks to the efforts of Gene Simmons, the musical world has... me. You should all thank him.

[Sonny Larsen]

I never had the oppurtunity to listen to KISS when I was a youngster back when they were huge, largely because my mother did not think a five year old should see monstrous looking dudes with tounges out spitting blood and screaming "Lick it Up". Go figure. Anyway, just a few weeks ago I went to see KISS and Aerosmith together and I was blown away by both for completely different reasons.

 

KISS

Gene spit blood, flew up ino the lighting rig and played, amidst explosions and pyrotechnics the likes of which I have never seen. I want my very own fire pit.

 

Aerosmith

What KISS was lacking in musicianship, Aerosmith supplied in abundance while Steven Tyler delivered a performance every bit as enthralling as KISS did only no fire and no blood and no flying (although he did swing around the arena on this rope swing thingy). He worked the crowd and got the entire place moving.

 

Anyway, the point of this little review is that there is more to music than musicianship. Chew on that for awhile while I go off and listen to "Pump" for the millionth time.

[g.]

Ah, yes, Aerosmith. Some great playing and writing. And even today, the result of some of their efforts I find interesting and satisfying. For instance, I quite approve of thee elven daughter with pouty lips and pointy ... ears.

 

If we are going to talk of essential entertainment experiences from somewhen, yes, I think inspiring examples of female pulchritude or guile such as Susan Sarandon in Rocky Horror Picture Show are more worthy of my imagination and there are plenty more items of great appeal pouting and cavorting around in makeup.

 

As for platforms, with music actually part of the agenda, give me Bootsy.

[Warlock1016]

Originally posted by Griffinator:

Originally posted by Warlock1016:

It all depends on how you define so-called "credibility." There's an excellent article about the deaths of Robbin Crosby (Ratt) and Dee Dee Ramone (both died about the same time), and according to Rock Critic types, we're supposed to care more about the fact that Ramone died, than Robbin, because his music was more "important."

 

On a related rant, the one time Kiss tried to do something to please the critics (The Elder), it blew up in their face. (Granted, this came after Dynasty and Unmasked, two rather weak pop albums.)

 

It's a catch-22, no matter what. If you want to create "art", you're arrogant. If you want to play the biggest arenas possible, and bust your ass to get there, and be paid well for doing so, you're arrogant again.

 

It's enough to make weaker people go off to be dental-floss salesmen.

 

I'm done with my rant. I'll now go back to my little corner. Thank you.

Actually, "Music From The Elder" was the only album they ever did that I thought was worth a crap. Like they actually were trying to do something important from a musical perspective. It wasn't a great result, but it was definitely a great effort.

To be honest, I loved The Elder. It's a great record. I'm very big on things that tell a story. Which is why Iron Maiden's Seventh Son of a Seventh Son is my favorite.

 

Cool...somebody got the dental-floss in-joke...

[The Guy]

Originally posted by coyote:

You cannot tell me the Sex Pistols and Ramones were musically more advanced than KISS.

qb]

 

Advanced, not necessarily. New, fresh, origional, hell yes. The issue, KISS makes millions, lay truckloads of chics, and do very little to better music. The Ramones inspired U2 to play music. Tell me who had more musical impact.

[Warlock1016]

Originally posted by The Guy:

Originally posted by coyote:

You cannot tell me the Sex Pistols and Ramones were musically more advanced than KISS.

qb]

Advanced, not necessarily. New, fresh, origional, hell yes. The issue, KISS makes millions, lay truckloads of chics, and do very little to better music. The Ramones inspired U2 to play music. Tell me who had more musical impact.

 

This is a perfect example of the attitude that bugs me. It becomes a "my bands are better than yours" thing.

 

For every band that cites the Ramones as an influence, another can be named that calls on KISS (Motley Crue, Anthrax, and Garth Brooks), throughout any genre of music you want. For both of them, you can probably come up with someone who claims SRV, or Bach, or Queen, or Queens Of The Stone Age, or Barry Manilow, or Marty Robbins, or whoever. Do I need to go on here?

 

In the end, it doesn't matter, because the whole thing is so subjective. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that jazz.

[earljam]

Kiss expanded on Alice Cooper? No way dude. I was in high school when they came out and they were taken seriously by no one except the lamest jr. high kids. More like Kiss were failed Alice Cooper wannabes.

[g.]

/me thinks of four Alice Cooper songs played in a cover band a couple years ago that were actually pretty good examples of pop songcrafting and great playing.

[shakedownstreet]

Roger Waters in "Live at Pompeii" said something along the lines of..."In the finished product, the only thing that matters is if it moves you, there is nothing else as important."

[dcr]

(Yeah, like it moved people when the Dead sold out on a disco album.)

 

[ducks & runs]

 

 

Waters is right, by the way...but I think what he meant is that what makes good music good, is that it moves you. I don't think he'd agree that whatever moves you is good music (maybe good something, but not necessarily good music). Anyway, I wouldn't.

[Jode]

If you listed all the musicians who were inspired to pick up an instrument by KISS versus those inspired by the Sex Pistols and/or the Ramones, I'll bet you'd have two equally long lists... and I'll bet that a lot of people would be on both of them.

 

This is without mentioning the fact that all three of these bands follow the same formula, when you get right down to it: put on a costume and play three-chord rock. Change the lyrics to "Anarchy In The UK" to something about banging groupies, and it could very easily be a KISS song. So don't start with me about originality or any of that crap. Substitute the platforms for DMs, make the topknot into liberty spikes, leave the chains in place, and substitute snot and junkie vomit for the greasepaint, and you have the same band.

 

The Bard was right. There is, and never has been, nothing new under the sun.

[shakedownstreet]

I think Waters would think that if it moves you it is good music. Since one can't say what is "good" music and what isn't, and for that matter, what is music at all, it is hard to discuss the point. Waters was a proponent of the philosophy that all things can be considered music such as water dripipng from a faucet or the sound of a stop sign swinging in the wind. What you were getting at, I think, is that there is a difference between a composition with musical merit, and one without; that is, someone who has a theoretical background in music would make a piece with some inherit merit to it.

 

As for the Dead, I laughed at your comment. I would never consider it selling out. Who were they selling out to? It's not like their music was ever on the radio. I always considered selling out as compromising your musical vision to make money. They experimented with nearly every type of indigenous music.

[TwoFingerz]

I read in Bass Player Mag. awhile ago that a session bassist had said that he had done session time for Gene... that rumors were always floatin' around that "ghost" musicians played some of those lines... sure KISS is good pop/rock... but for bass lovin' bass player and music lovin' musician... can't do it, just do the KISS.

[bc_dup1]

I think Waters would think that if it moves you it is good music

From interviews I've read with Waters I think he's more opinionated than that. If it moves him he will think it's good music. If it moves you he may still think it's sh**.

[erikmag]

Originally posted by CupMcMali:

Who in this forum belives themselves to be credible?

I think a credible rock bassist i much different then a credible jazz or soloist bassist. I think credible really means if you can back up what you claim to be. I dont claim to be victor wooten or stanley clarke, but i do claim that i can com eup with a pretty cool rock groove to go under a rythm guitar part (thats the only kind of band ive plyed in so far). so in that case i am "credible"