Conventional players afraid of rap?

[dohhhhh6]

I've been looking around at a couple of tabs sites (I had a good reason!!! as explained later) for some good tab for some good ole booty shakin', bowel thumpin' rap basslines, and to my dismay, I could not find any. That's very interestingly strange since I think rappers have some of the best (however repetitive) basslines backing them up.

 

Now for the short explanation of why I was at a *gasp* Tab website. It's because A)I don't own the cd and B) I'm not good enough to cop basslines by listening to the infrequent playings of the songs on the radio yet. I just want to learn the lines for the hell of being able to play a catchy rap bassline!

 

So my conclusion is, a lot of bassplayers are hating on the rap. The thing is, I don't see a good reason why. I mean, out of like a bajillion bassplayers, there has to be some guy (or gal) who is infatuated with rap and wants others to become engrossed in the catchy hotness too. But, there seems to NOT be a single person like that, which leaves me wondering, "what's the diddily yo with bassplayers and rap?" Or, is it just that all the extra cool peopel who ARE infatuated with rap don't use tab because:

 

Tab leads to misunderstanding

Misunderstanding leads to hate

Hate leads to anger

Anger leads to suckiness

and suckiness leads to bad bassplayer?

[dcr]

Curious inference, that because there is a dearth of rap TabZ, bass players must hate rap. I guess bass players must hate Jaco Pastorius & Scott LaFaro, too, since I've not seen any tabs of their music, either.

 

And do we REALLY have to do this AGAIN? OK, there's music you like which not everyone else likes. Fine. Some, maybe most of those people don't like it because they are close-minded. Fine. What do you care anyway?!? Go your way & let them go theirs. Can we please just let it go??

[jeremy c]

[Connie Z]

Hi LadY,

 

Just a thought... do people "cover" rap music? What I mean is this... are there rap cover bands?

 

And if there are rap cover bands, do they use "live" musicians, or tracks?

 

Or, does each rap artist always do his/her own original material?

 

I've personally never heard anyone cover someone else's rap music. But I do not hear a lot of rap in my normal day, and I've only heard "live" rap twice. And both of those time did not involve any live musicians, only vocalists with tracks behind them.

 

If it turns out that no one is really "covering" rap, then I believe that would explain the lack of rap tab. No one would need it.

 

The main reason that I know of for people to create tab, is to perform it.

 

... connie z

[jeremy c]

Nice post, Connie.

 

You answered the question intelligently and politely as opposed to my rant.

 

I'm ashamed of myself.

[bc_dup1]

Interesting thoughts about covering rap. I've played in a band that did a cover of US3s Canteloupe (the very simple bass line is sampled from the Herbie Hancock tune). We also had NWAs Express Yourself on a list of tunes to do though we never got round to doing it (I did learn the bass-line though, one of my favourite simple funky lines, again I'm guessing sampled, probably from a James Brown record). The band I'm in at the moment is doing a Ms Dynamite song (It takes more) where one verse is rapped and our singer does a great job with the rap.

 

In this part of the world I can't imagine too many rap cover bands because of a shortage of rappers who could get close to the original - one or two rap tunes for variety is ok, but beyond that the gulf in rapping skills between white Scots and a Snoop Dogg or similar is going to start to grate.

 

I have noticed, though, that there seems to be a tendency for rappers to start using "real" musicians for their live shows - The Roots are the obvious example, but I saw Common in London not so long ago with a very nice band. I also noticed quite a few guys in the(mainly black) crowd rapping along with the artist - these guys knew every word and rhythmic nuance, they had obviously put in serious amounts of hours learning to rap exactly like their heroes. My guess is rap cover bands may not look such an odd idea at some point in the near future.

[BenLoy]

A lot of the top rap artists are using live bands these days. Jay-Z and Eminem had the Roots back them on MTV Unplugged and the Grammy Awards, respectively. Eminem has had a live band of his own for awhile now...so has Redman.

 

And as for the Roots...ho boy, Hub is off the HOOK!!! The Roots are probably the biggest argument for live musicians playing rap out there...every bassist should own their records.

 

Getting back to Lady Pink's original post...I have to agree with Jeremy. Lady, if you're complaining because you can't find tab to something like "The Real Slim Shady" or whatever, I have some words of advice that I'd like to deliver in the manner of California's "Governator": Stop Whining!

 

Buy some rap records and listen to them! Figure the basslines out! Most tab is wrong in the first place, especially internet tab where people who have no business transcribing "Mary Had a Little Lamb" without getting half the notes wrong are given free reign to post their horrible perversions of great basslines.

 

If you want to "learn the lines for the hell of being able to play a catchy rap bassline," then buy the record and learn them! Listen to them over and over. You accuse "conventional players are afraid of rap," but why are you afraid to buy a few rap albums?

 

Do your ear a favor. Buy the records and stop complaining. Most "conventional players" who go to tab websites are people who don't know how to play, so who cares whether they like rap or not?

 

You don't want to be one of those players. Trust me, a few years ago I went to a couple of blues jams where "bassists" would approach me after I was finished holding together a very, very loose version of "Texas Flood" and ask: "Man, you're great...how did you know what key the song was in without asking?" What???? They don't even remotely understand how ignorant that question makes them look.

 

*Whew* Okay, I'm done with my rant. I need to get them out of my system every once in a while.

[Ayatollah Watts]

"governator"

 

funniest thing i've seen here since the pancake rabbit...

[bc_dup1]

Not just rappers either - one of the best concerts I saw last year was by synth-pop band Ladytron (highly recommend their albums if you have a taste for Human League style synth-pop, they are great melody writers). I was delighted to see they'd added a "real" bassist and drummer for their live show. When you heard the extra thump compared to the albums you could see why, in fact, good as they are, the albums sounded a little insipid after seeing the band live.

[jeremy c]

Here's the bassline for "hot in herre" by Nelly.

 

______________

______________

______________

_00___________

 

Repeat many times.

[getz out]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Here's the bassline for "hot in herre" by Nelly.

 

______________

______________

______________

_00___________

 

Repeat many times.

Nice.

 

There are rap/rock cover bands. There actually tends to be a plethora of them in Northern New Jersey. I forget half the names, but often they will play at places like the Palm Grill in Morristown, or the Ringside Pub in Caldwell.

 

They tend to use live bands. They are actually quite entertaining, as they do "old school" rap: Digital Underground, Run-DMC, Curtis Blow, etc.

[bikertrash]

Maybe if people are "hating on rap music" it's because rap music is hating on them.

 

Regardless of how I feel about it, it's the ugliest, most violent, hate filled, abusive lyric content I've ever heard.

 

Personally I feel bad for anyone that has so much hate, anger and frustration inside them

[_Sweet Willie_]

Hey Jeremy -- did you hear me comin'?

 

Now, I loves me some hip-hop, and as a fan I respect the genre and think as a genre (a very broad and wide-ranging genre) it has contributed and continues to contribute to the overall musical experience. But rap tabs?! C'mon, that's just silly. To say again what has already been written:

 

1. Some of the baddest rap basslines are from tunes like George Clinton's "Flashlight," or Patrice Rushen's "Forget-Me-Nots," or Chic's "Good Times," or... So, if you pull up some good ol' skool funk and R&B, you'll hear a lot of those lines.

 

2. Many rap bass lines are pretty simple and straight forward, and repeat and repeat and repeat...so learning them off the radio really shouldn't be that tough.

 

However, you should also visit this thread: Click here for hip-hop bass goodness! . There's some fine discussion there about some really terrific bassists who play on rap albums. The album I started that thread's discussion with, Talib Kweli's Quality, has, for example, Pino Palladino and Eric Coombes playing on it (also Doug Wimbish and others). Eric plays on the track "Put It in the Air" and lays down a juicy, phat, and funky line -- that has some variation in fills, etc. (i.e., it's variegated). Pino plays on the track "Talk to You" -- his part is very simple and I learned it off the CD very quickly -- but it is so very right for the tune.

 

Anyway, Da Lady, use the radio or find ways to get the music otherwise to learn the lines. If you list some of the tunes you want to learn, we might even be able to tell you whether the lines are original or if they're samples of some older stuff for which you might be able to find sheet music.

 

Oh yeah, in terms of covering rap tunes -- it happens, but not as often as, let's say, classic rock tunes. A real highlight for me when I saw the Roots several years ago was when they did their "ol' school rap" medley. It was outta control, folks. Apparently the Fugees used to do a similar thing in their shows as well.

 

Originally posted by bikertrash:

Maybe if people are "hating on rap music" it's because rap music is hating on them.

 

Regardless of how I feel about it, it's the ugliest, most violent, hate filled, abusive lyric content I've ever heard.

 

Personally I feel bad for anyone that has so much hate, anger and frustration inside them

Okay, bikertrash, I know you wrote that out of emotion and frustration yourself, because rap music has a whole lot more variety in it than how you have described it in your post. Unfortunately, a lot of what is played on popular radio fits the characteristics you've described. I'm guessing that your rap/hip-hop listening experience isn't very varied, or else you'd know better that a lot of rap music is chock full of astute social commentary and community uplift. For some rap that might better engage your brain and lead you to more complex thoughts, I'd recommend Black Star, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Public Enemy, KRS-One/Boogie Down Productions, The Goats, The Roots, Black Eyed Peas...and others.

 

Also, take some time to think about where that "anger and frustration" that those artists have inside them has come from. Sure, in some cases, I don't think the lyrics are sincere and that they have been crafted into a product made to sell (primarily to white suburban males -- why are they buying it?! ). But take something more ol' skool like NWA's "Straight Outta Compton" -- a lot of violent, abusive, ugly lyrics there, but definitely an expression and reflection of a socio-economic and racial reality.

 

Peace.

--sweets

 

PS: Is there tab for turntablists?

[jeremy c]

BC, Express Yourself came from Charles Wright and the Watts 103rd St. Rhythm Band, not James Brown.

 

Every funk player should know that. I transcribed this song and have it in a notebook.

 

And of course every high school jazz player in the country learns how to play Cantaloupe Island.

 

I do like Pino Palladino's playing with D'Angelo, but that isn't rap.

 

Is there any bass on Eminem's records?

[getz out]

Originally posted by bikertrash:

Regardless of how I feel about it, it's the ugliest, most violent, hate filled, abusive lyric content I've ever heard.

Of course, compared to the uplifting and upbeat lyrics heard on lyrics from:

 

-Disturbed

-Lincoln Park

-KoRn

-System of a Down

-NIN

-Pantera

-Metallica

 

Etc... it's not limited to the genre. Look around.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Is there any bass on Eminem's records?

There are no bass credits for the Slim Shady LP, but Mike Elizondo is listed as playing bass on the Marshall Mathers and Eminem Show albums. (...from allmusic.com)

 

Pino Palladino also plays bass on Common's Electric Circus CD, which I haven't heard yet.

 

Mos Def has his own band, Black Jack Johnson. Doug Wimbish plays bass in this band, as does Mos Def himself.

 

Some of these bass players have been involved in writing and/or producing for various rap albums, even if they don't play on them -- Doug Wimbish, Pino Palladino, Raphael Saadiq, and others.

 

Peace.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Is there any bass on Eminem's records?

I'm not sure what it's called or who it's by but the original track that "My Name Is..." is a deeply funky 70s soul track. There's some fine bass on quite a lot of the Eminem stuff (what is hiphop without bass?) but a lot of it is keyboard bass.

 

The Black Eyed Peas use a live band and their drummer is the most badass mofo - not just the obligatory deep hiphop grooves but huge fills which add to rather than detract from the pocket. "Where is the love?" is currently No.1 in the UK and has been there longer than any song in the last 5 years. Some real music at last - nice.

 

Alex

[tnb]

Sweet Willie sez:

Sure, in some cases, I don't think the lyrics are sincere and that they have been crafted into a product made to sell (primarily to white suburban males -- why are they buying it?!

Bingo.

 

I know a guy who produces rap acts. He used to talk about being from the "hood", being a "thug" and all kinds of bullshit. Turns out he's from a nice suburb in Omaha. His mom is an elementry school teacher.

 

All he knows about being a thug he learned from MTV.

[bb1chiquita]

Check out Debra Killings and Dante Nolen

 

Good luck B Boy...lol

[dohhhhh6]

Yeah, sorry that I kinda went back to the whole "musical tastes bitchin'" I'm kinda known for. I tried to stay away from that, but I guess it kinda seeped into my post. Sorry about that. What I meant to get is after seeing so many people tab Blink 182, Metallica, Megadeth, Red Hot Chili Pepper, etc I thought at least someone would think to tab (or put in standard notation!) some rap lines.

 

By the way, I was looking more at Right Thurr's bassline (know why I especially wouldn't buy that album now!?!?) and Eminem's Stan. I'm usre I could figure Stan's out if I tried really hard, but I was kinda focusing on all the other rap too.

[bc_dup1]

The problem of the misogyny, homophobia, celebration of gun culture etc in rap music is a difficult one. As a fan of rap music I'm not sure that I can come up with a defence I'm entirely happy with. Noting that some rap isn't like that doesn't take you very far unless you take the somewhat artificial position that you are only going to listen to the rap that doesn't have these elements. Which means avoiding a lot of the best stuff like Dre, NWA, Eminem, and even Public Enemy.

 

I tend to feel that there is an over-the-top cartoonishness to it that means it's not to be taken seriously but you come up against some fairly hard evidence of it affecting real behaviour, like the Biggie/Tupac thing.

 

When I read Nelson George's "Hip Hop America" I expected him to address this subject but he neatly sidestepped it by excoriating the misogyny Two Live Crew (an easy target and who's going to defend them) while ignoring the same elements in more critically revered rappers.

[dcr]

Originally posted by Da LadY In Tha Pink Dress:

Yeah, sorry that I kinda went back to the whole "musical tastes bitchin'" I'm kinda known for.

No sweat.

 

And in two weeks, we'll start all over again.

[bb1chiquita]

I'm looking for Sir Mix Alot's tab for Baby Got Back..........

[...]

Originally posted by Ayatollah Watts:

"governator"

 

funniest thing i've seen here since the pancake rabbit...

And now, I bring you a preview of Terminator 4: Government Day

 

http://www.briantimpe.com/images/AHnald.jpg - "Your money, give it to me. Do it! Do it now! Elect me, I'm right here!!!"

[_Sweet Willie_]

Hey Bump,

 

Got any pictures of Ahnold w/ a pancake on his head? Or, even better, a bunny w/ Ahnold on its head?

[...]

Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

Hey Bump,

 

Got any pictures of Ahnold w/ a pancake on his head? Or, even better, a bunny w/ Ahnold on its head?

I laughed a LOT when making this... probably too much.

 

http://www.briantimpe.com/images/bunnyAhnald.jpg

[ibescotty]

Now there's a post I can reply too!!!!

 

[abaguer]

Tab won't really help you if you can't figure out a two bar rap bass line.

 

Instead of searching the web for tab, try buying the record and playing it over and over until you figure it out. You'll get a real feeling of accomplishment, you'll train your ear in the process and the better you get at it the more rap bass lines you'll be able to learn.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

Hey Bump,

 

Got any pictures of Ahnold w/ a pancake on his head? Or, even better, a bunny w/ Ahnold on its head?

I laughed a LOT when making this... probably too much.

 

http://www.briantimpe.com/images/bunnyAhnald.jpg

Fantastic. Boy, that really brightened up my morning! You really came thru on that one, Bump...do your friends call you "Clutch"?

 

OK, please go back to the original programming now people. Nothing to see here.

[earljam]

Hey Lady- keep practicing the art of listening, your ear will get better but it does take considerable effort, I know because I'm not far ahead of you and I am just getting to where I can find simple bass lines by ear. Remember that even the peckerwoods that tell you to stop whining couldn't do it once upon a time. Odds are that you are at least as smart as them.