_Sweet Willie_ Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 First of all, a question about terminology: Is a half-step interval commonly (or ever?) called a flat-second (or b2)? Is there another term more commonly used? Next, a personal bass awakening: Double-stops in seconds can really be pretty bad-ass, n'est-ce pas? I really dig playing the b2 double-stop in Jaco's "Opus Pocus." Today I was doing a little "writing" (I'm using the term loosely!) on my bass, and have found a spot where a whole-step (2) double-stop sounds absolutely fan-frickin-tastic. There's something oddly harmonious about the dissonance of those intervals (although I could see some risk of over-use). I guess I shouldn't be surprised, since I like throwing the same intervals down on the piano when I'm playing something a little bluesy, or want a little taste of Monk. Anyway, don't mind me -- just sharin'! Peace. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcr Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 For some reason, the P/W arrangements I see tend to have sus2 chords all over the place. They do sound pretty good in the right place, & sound good chorded on bass/piccolo. The 2nd also makes a very tasty chord note to use in lines over sus2 chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplitNick Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 You could call it a b2, but most of the time I hear it referred to as a minor second. We must accept the consequences of being ourselves-Sojourn of Arjuna Music at www.moporoco.com/nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 One of Jaco's coolest uses of the minor second double stop (in my opinion) is in the repeating groove of the Weather Report tune "Palladium". He just throws it in there while playing that groove every once in a while and it's just SO painfully hip. Hard to execute as well. That stretch from the E 9th fret on the G string to the Eb 13th fret on the D is just brutal to whip out in the middle of that 16th note figure. Especially on fretless... and you have to keep that intonation in check. That clever bastard. Man, I need to practice more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Minor seconds are great...when I use them it's mostly for humorous purposes, but when I hear Jaco use them I'm like, "DAMN!" It's just not fair...IT'S NOT FAIR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 "Minor second" and "half-step" generally refer to an interval in a melodic line. Flats or sharps in reference to an interval refer to chord tones. Playing an A and then a B flat would be a half step. Playing an A and B flat against each other would be a flat second. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Easy question here: Why is it called a "minor second" when the 2nd interval in a minor scale is the same as the 2nd interval in a major scale (one whole step above the root)? A "minor third" makes sense since it is flat from a "major third", but what's up w/ a "minor second"? Ah, nice marmot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted September 5, 2003 Author Share Posted September 5, 2003 Originally posted by Scootdog: Easy question here: Why is it called a "minor second" when the 2nd interval in a minor scale is the same as the 2nd interval in a major scale (one whole step above the root)? A "minor third" makes sense since it is flat from a "major third", but what's up w/ a "minor second"?This is exactly why I assumed that interval in a double-stop would be called a flat-second (b2). Bueller? spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 C Db minor second C D major second C D# augmented second C Ebb diminished third C Eb minor third C E major third C E# augmented third C Fb Diminished fourth C F perfect fourth C F# augmented fourth C Gb diminished fifth C G perfect fifth C G# augmented fifth C Abb diminished sixth C Ab minor sixth C A major sixth C A# augmented sixth C Bbb diminished seventh C Bb minor seventh C B major seventh C C octave Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted September 5, 2003 Author Share Posted September 5, 2003 Thanks, Jeremy! spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Okay, so Db is the minor second to C. But why is it called a minor second when the second interval of a C minor scale is D natural? I have a feeling this is one of those "Just because" answers, but I had to ask. Ah, nice marmot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 While it is true that every interval of the major scale is major (or Perfect, as in 4th and 5th), it doesn't automatically follow that every interval of the minor scale is minor. Remember, if you take a major scale and build a scale with the same key signature on each note of the scale, you build the "modes" of the major scale. The Sixth mode is what is commonly called the "Natural Minor" Scale: cdefgabc defgabcd efgabcde and so on, until: abcedfga.... And the distance from a-b is a Major second. For the natural modes, there are 2 whose first step happens to be a minor second. The mode beginning on three: efg.... and the mode beginning on seven: bcd.... Of course, the reason for this is that there are only 2 pair of minor seconds found within the major scale. We discussed more on intervals in this thread. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted September 5, 2003 Author Share Posted September 5, 2003 DBB, Once again you have proved your mettle! Not only in providing a useful explanation within this thread, but also highlighting once again your LDL Archivist chops by pulling up an ace discussion on intervals from the past. Screw the political capital, brother -- cultural capital is where it's at! Peace, --Willie spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplitNick Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 More on intervals from Dr. H. Carney via Mr. N. Walker: All major intervals lowered a half step become minor... All major intervals raised by a half step become augmented... All major intervals lowered by a whole step become diminished... All perfect intervals lowered by a half step become diminished... All perfect intervals raised by a half step become augmented... the intervals from the root in a major scale: 1...Maj 2nd...Maj 3rd...Perfect 4th...Perfect 5th...Major 6th...Major 7th...Perfect Octave These are the standards to which alteration occurrs... I remember way back in the day when it was illegal to use that diminished 5th interval...It really used to torque ole Torquemada... We must accept the consequences of being ourselves-Sojourn of Arjuna Music at www.moporoco.com/nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Originally legga' down and smack 'em yak 'em by davebrownbass: While it is true that every interval of the major scale is major (or Perfect, as in 4th and 5th), it doesn't automatically follow that every interval of the minor scale is minor. Remember, if you take a major scale and build a scale with the same key signature on each note of the scale, you build the "modes" of the major scale. The Sixth mode is what is commonly called the "Natural Minor" Scale: cdefgabc defgabcd efgabcde and so on, until: abcedfga.... And the distance from a-b is a Major second. For the natural modes, there are 2 whose first step happens to be a minor second. The mode beginning on three: efg.... and the mode beginning on seven: bcd.... Of course, the reason for this is that there are only 2 pair of minor seconds found within the major scale. We discussed more on intervals in this thread. Preach. That DBB guy, he knows what he's talkin' about. This is all stuff that I just don't think about enough anymore. Maybe it's time to read a theory book again instead of just following my instincts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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