Bartolini Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I installed a cool software called Jazz Pianist and since then I have been checking things with so much interest. I want to understand Blues and its different bar/chord formations, and thought of asking you to help me on this with answers to following questions. An example I picked was Blues for Dr. John by Miles Black C6/-/F7/- C6/-/C7sus/- F7/-/-/- C6/-/-/- G7/-/F7/- C6/-/-/G7 last 4 bars are played as C6 C13 Cdim Fm6/C C6 Ab7 G7 and optionally C7 F7 F#dim C6 Ab7 G7, and (Question 1) this I suppose is what you refer to as turn around?, At the end of the song last 4 bars are played as C7, F7 F#dim, C6, Db9#11, C13.(Question 2- What do you call an ending?) Question 3 I find that aboves one cycle takes 24 bars and is this called 24 bar blues? Question 4 How is this interpreted this type in Roman numericals? (eg. I IV V ? If the answer is yes, how do I know if a piano guy tells me that hes gonna play I IV V and plays above combination? i.e. CFCC FFCC GFCC) Q5 e.g Blues for Dr. John - I found Blues for Dr. John under Type C F G Bb. How do I relate this C F G Bb with 24 bar chord illustration above? Eb Ab Db Gb e.g My Funny Valentine What is this category? and why is it called Eb Ab Db Gb ? B E A D eg. Ever Green, Arthurs theme What is this category? and why is it called B E A D? Q6 Chicken played by Jaco is blues? What cat is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Well, I can't begin to answer all your questions. However, I have one...are you certain this blues has 24 bars? I dunno, I've never played one of those. However, if you group these blues by 2 bars, it becomes 12 bar blues. Actually, now that I think of it, there are a few blues tunes that play with measure count. As far as categories go...the Blues is its own, very specific category. No other music is as codified. However, there are broad categories...some I think of are Ballad, Bossa (Latin), Jazz Waltz. These generally describe tempo more than harmonic structure. An ending is called various things...normally, "the ending." Other terms I've heard: "coda" "outtro" "last time" "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by davebrownbass: However, I have one...are you certain this blues has 24 bars? ... However, if you group these blues by 2 bars, it becomes 12 bar blues. I concur here w/ DBB. Basically I'd interpret it as a "stretched out" 12-bar blues. Originally posted by davebrownbass: ...some I think of are Ballad, Bossa (Latin), Jazz Waltz. These generally describe tempo more than harmonic structure.I would say they describe both tempo and rhythmic structure. Was "The Chicken" originally a Funky Meters' tune? I know that Jaco has played "Cissy Strut" (another Meters' tune) live. Peace. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by Sweet Willie: Was "The Chicken" originally a Funky Meters' tune? I know that Jaco has played "Cissy Strut" (another Meters' tune) live. It was a Pee Wee Ellis tune I think. It's definitely not a Meters tune. Alex P.S. Anyone out there that plays bass (ok, that's anyone reading this) and hasn't heard the Meters needs to do so - go buy the anthology and learn how funky you can be with hardly any notes! Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Thanks, Alex! The Meters recorded a tune called "The Chicken Strut." I'll have to go back and listen to it to see if it's a cover of that Pee Wee Ellis tune or if it's something altogether different. I could've sworn that I'd heard a Meters' version of "The Chicken." I'm not crazy, though, for believing that "The Chicken" has Meter-esque qualities, n'est-ce pas? (Although I may be legitimately crazy for other reasons! ) spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 The categories that Bartolini mentions are unique to the software he is using. No one else uses categories like that. There can be a 24 bar blues, it is of course a variation on a 12 bar blues. There can also be 8 bar blues, 13 bar blues, 16 bar blues, major blues, minor blues, 4/4, 6/8 or 12/8 time, and others. The Chicken by Pee Wee Ellis (and played by Jaco and Maceo Parker) is not a blues. But it is bluesy which means it shares some of the characteristics of a blues but not all of them. We don't have names for all the other kinds of progressions that exist. Many standard songs and progressions are 32 bars long. Some are A A B A, with each letter representing an 8 bar section. All the A's are similar and the B is a contrasting part, also known as the bridge. Other songs are A A', with two 16 bar sections which end differently. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartolini Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 Thank you. Here's 'Blues in F - by Gannon O', Try play on a piano and see that this is amazing!Its jazzy blues. Chords appeared in music sheet is as follows. F13 / Bb9 / Cm7 / F13 Bb9 /Bb9 Bdim / F13 /A7+ D7 (second time D7#9) G7+ / Gm7 C7 / F13 D7#9 / G7b5 C7+ ok, now amazing thing I found is that bass does not touch minor 3rd but playing a major 3rd note on Gm7 when passing to C7. It sounds so good. I never hear bass touching 7th's or 13ths or 9ths when running on the chords. Instead it plays some notes which are not even in the chord. I do not understand what D7#9 means since #9 is a minor 3rd and does it mean its Dmajor minor7? I wish I had a way to connect you to these two songs (in my PC) so you would have been able to listen and get what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Oh, don't worry Bartolini, I know what that sounds like by looking at it. a 7#9 chord does indeed have both a major third and a minor third in it. I'd love to give you some walking bass lessons, but unfortunately I don't think I'm going to make it to Singapore anytime soon. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartolini Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 he he...I'd've loved to meet and get some lessons if you're here. Thanks:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Ditto for me, Bart. That #9 chord is called a sharp nine because that note doesn't really change the quality of the chord. Here's a good idea...there is a program called "Band in a Box" and another called "Jammer." Each of these works the same...you can put chords in, and assign a style...like "jazz, walking bass." The algorithms are really good, and you will get a convincing bass line. Then, you can save as a midi file, and use something like the Cakewalk midi sequencing program to open and read the notes. Really good practice. You can get a copy of either BOB or Jammer plus a copy of Cakewalk for about $100. This is the cost of about 6 lessons, and you can learn a lot. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: The Chicken by Pee Wee Ellis (and played by Jaco and Maceo Parker) is not a blues. But it is bluesy which means it shares some of the characteristics of a blues but not all of them.The Chicken. None More Funky. Basic form of the tune: Bb7 | - | - | - Eb7 | - | D7 | G7 C7 | - | - | soli figure (basically outlines a Bb minor scale... sort of) Bb7 | - | - | - repeat, get funky on dat ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkW Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 I have Band in a Box and it is absolutely excellent for learning jazz and blues. My only beef with it comes from the fact that I'm a computer programmer, specifically one who works with user interfaces. That thing is a visual nightmare! The people over at the Human Factors Department would have a stroke just looking at it. I would love to see a Band in a Box SE (simple edition) that takes out a lot of the fine-tuning that is available, and just lets me put in chord names, click the instrumentation arrangement and a style, and hit Play. The best part about Band in a Box is that it never complains if you make it play 50 choruses so you can shed your walking lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Jammer works like that...not exactly visually stunning, but very workable. Put in chords, pick a style, hit compose and off to the races. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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