Prague Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: I don't even think it's ego. People practice by themselves, they only hear themselves. When they get to a gig, they are overwhelmed by all the sound around them and they turn up so they can hear themselves. Then they get used to this balance level. It gets worse in the studio, when everyone is listening through headphones and for the first time in their life everyone is mixed in at an equal volume. Everyone will say, I can't hear myself. I came up with a solution for myself, I'll post later on it.I did, too, and want to hear yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Shit! I never realised the damage I've been doing. Around the birth of my current band we rehearsed in the smallest room and the noise was defeaning. We tried plugs, (the lil cheap ones used by swimmers to stop H2O) the sound was terrible, the plugs long forgotten. We're in a much larger rehearsal room now, but I still suffer from the EEEEEEE noise from time to time. I think plugs should be checked out again before I'm deaf! Interesting topic btw, sounds like ego to me. CupMcMali...this monkey's gone to heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 CMDN... About the ribbed earplugs with the metal diaphragm... If they hurt or sound like the foam ones, it's because you are pushing them too far into your ears, bro! Both my drummer and guitarist were making this mistake, at first. When you put them in properly, they don't seem to block any sound at all, when you are having normal conversation, so this makes you think you have to push them in further, but don't! That's why they work so great, they only block high sound pressure level sounds. Just push them in enough so they don't fall out. It's amazing. If you do it correctly, you won't even remember you have them in, because things sound so normal. Seriously! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Edendude... Really? I only push them in until I can feel them hit my brain... Is that bad? Just kidding. I'm pretty sure I was wearing them right. They just kinda feel icky in my ears, and they really started to hurt after a while. In any case, mine are long gone. I'm sticking with the foam. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Yep...they really do feel "icky" and make your ears really hot and sweaty, if you put them in the way you would normal foam ear plugs. They are meant to just sit part way in the ear canal, and are held in lightly by the ribs. By what you are describing, I'd bet my Eden amp you had them in too far, just like the other guys in my band were doing. I did the same at first, too. Once you discover that, with them in properly, you can hear just as well as you can without earplugs, it's like an epiphany! Hear everything, and not have to worry about high SPLs doing damage to your hearing. Foam ones don't come close! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 OK... you might be right. I think my buddy has a pair now and likes them a lot. I'll ask him how he wears them. But the real issue here is this: Will this douchebag guitarist start playing with the band instead of blowing everyone's ears out? \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundWrangler Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 :...Dynamics for softer passages are a matter of sensitivity between players but can't be established by (or even be a concern for) those who lack the appreciation of their own level vagaries. If someone can't understand or follow that sort of approach, they should be relegated to the scrapheap...This reminds me of a story in the book for Ken Burns' "Jazz" (which I HIGHLY recommend, BTW) about Louis Armstrong. In the early days, one of his first gigs with a band using proper written arrangements, there was a passage marked "pp", & every time they got to it, Satchmo just wailed on through at full volume. The bandleader finally asks him, "How come you keep playing so loud right through that double-pianissimo section? Can't you see where it's written 'pp' on your part?". Louis says, "Oh, I thought that meant 'Pound Plenty'!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Great story, 'wrangler. CMDN -- way to re-focus the discussion: What's gonna happen in the situation with Mr. Mucho Volume? BTW, I'm getting some ER-20s (only $10) to test drive at my next rehearsal. Peace. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Yep... The issue of stage volume balance and hearing damage are related, but definitely very separate issues. I feel fortunate to play in a band where all the players are very keen about having a good stage sound balance. But on the other hand, we are very loud. I'm talking a Laney and a Mesa Dual Rectifier for the guitars, my 540 watt GK1001RB through an SWR 4x10, plus one of the heaviest drummers you have every heard, this side of Bonham and Cobbham! So, ear protection is a good thing to be discussing and using, whether you have a volume happy guitarist/egomaniac in your band, or not. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Just got back in town from visiting my dad across the state. Our band has practice this Thursday, and as per our singer, we'll hold off discussion until then. She's been working with him for about 6 or 7 years and thinks all of us together will work best. Ironically, I did a set with a country band Friday nite, playing low volume classic country, and it was so nice and clean sounding. Low volume, yet still had a good presence, each instrument distinct. A nice change from my rock band. (As a consequence, they're hiring me for two fill-in gigs.....WooHoo!) Great inputs from everyone. Thanks. If it's an actual hearing problem, I'll toss him some ideas that you all gave, as these are the ideas I needed to know to throw him some options. So, I'll talk with him Thursday at practice with the rest of the band. Will let ya'll know how it turns out. Either I'll be a hero, or looking for a new band Tom Bassplayers aren't paid to play fast, they're paid to listen fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeR Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I'm gonna try these new earplugs. I bought them yesterday from the local musician supply shop. A pair cost $25 (Yikes!), come in a little carrying case, and are for airplane mechanics/pilots, hunters and musicians. They have the metal diaphgram in them which self adjusts to block the loud sounds but opens up to let the regular sounds pass with only some attenuation. I tried them on in my living room, just normal ambient sound levels and they do cut the sound without too much loss of clarity. So I'm hopeful they do well during rehearsals. The drummer wears the earmuffs, because the crash of the cymbals gets REALLY loud at times! The guitarist can get loud at times.....I think his hearing is already going and he doesn't think twice about it. Hopefully this investment will protect my hearing well! Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; one lick and you suck forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Lyons Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 MSA Safety Works 60-Pair Bulk Pack of Foam Ear Plugs at Home Cheapo. Thats what I use. $11.96 for 60 Pairs \m/ Timothy Lyons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeR Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 TL - Yea, I used those kind before. But for me they diminish the mids and high end effecitvely while leaving the bass (me) booming. Then, when that happens, I think I'm playing too loudly and I begin to tone it down, then everyone wonders what the heck happened to the bass. Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; one lick and you suck forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I just use the Hearos swimming earplugs. About $4 at the local Duane Reade drugstore here in the NYC area. I probably have them plugged in about 3/4 of the way. I'm certain it does work, for my ears don't ring after a loud show. I also had my hearing checked recently, and everything's okay. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeR Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 So it's about 11:30 at night and I just got back from rehersal. I tried the new ear plugs this evening, the ones I got with the built in diaphgram that blocks loud sounds automatically. WOW!!!! What a difference!! The bass does still come through just a little boomy at times (maybe because I'm standing next to my amp), but in general the cut seems to remain fairly consistent across the spectrum. Best of all my ears no longer hurt or start ringing from the exposure to the crash of the cymbals or the occasional feedback squeal from the mic/PA. In fact my ears are quite comfortable! Best $25 I ever spent!! Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; one lick and you suck forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 You can buy those exact same plugs at Walmart for six bucks, in the hunting section. There is no comparison between those diaphram type plugs and the foam plugs. Most people put them in too far, because they can hear conversation almost normally, when they are in at the correct depth, so they think they don't have them in far enough. I'd bet more than half the guys whom try them will never know just how good they really are, because they jam them in too far. They are only supposed to rest lightly inside the ear canal!!! You will hear conversation almost as loud as you do without the plugs. It'a amazing! And you will hear mid and high frequency sounds almost normally, too. It's only when the band cranks up loud that you realize they are doing what they are supposed to do. VERY cool. No more ringing ears after rehearsals, and no more muddy sound either! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 Well, last Thursday at practice, we all had a talk about volume. The errant guitarist does have a hearing problem, but according him, the reason he starts raising the volume is excitement, and an 'expected volume' that he hears in his head. I suggested a few things I found on the Internet, and some suggestions from this thread, giving him options to fix this. But I personally think the problem is a small portion of ego, and larger portion of lack of discipline at volume control and blending at lower volumes. I admit, years ago it took me a bit to get used to having to play higher energy music at lower volumes, but it can be done and still kick butt. This is what we did at practice last nite, and he really liked it. All instruments were clear, the singer actually stayed louder than us without straining herself, and he said there was no ringing in his ears after practice. He said he did fight the normal urge to start turning up as he was getting into it. All positive things (which I hoped he would see). Of all the suggestions I gave him, the most immediate one we could do was angle his cabinet to blow at his head, instead of by his feet. If he gets too loud, he has to turn down, 'cause the rest of us aren't gonna turn up, so the cab tilted to the head may be a cool self regulating thing. We'll find out at the gig this Friday. So all in all, he does seemed excited about this and was glad I was pushing the issue in a non-confrontational way. The rest of the band used to be nasty about it, so he appreciated that we could actually discuss it with options on how to fix it. We'll just have to see over the next few gigs. OT...kinda. The drummer has completed a studio at his house, so we'll start practicing there, instead of a rented studio. Cool! The guitarist might actually learn about volume control so we can sound better and not piss off customers and bar staff. Way cool! The singer is pregnant , so June are our last gigs before a 'hiatus'. S***!! Go figure! Bassplayers aren't paid to play fast, they're paid to listen fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Just makes me appreciate the fact that both the guitarists in my band are very sensitive about volume balance. And that's a good thing, since a volume war between a Mesa Dual Rectifier and a Laney could get pretty violent. Especially if Id have to step in and crank my GK1001RB through my 4x10 cab. Or worse yet, I could bring out the big guns and run my Eden 2x10, SWR 4x10, GK1001RB, and my Eden WT300 all stacked and cranked. Nice to hear that your band is getting in touch with the joys of a balanced stage sound. You guys will play and sound soooo much more musical, once you all get on that wavelength, dude. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 fig -- congratulations. Sounds like a success. Maybe the new studio will offer the possibility for some in-ear monitoring? And then the potential that the guitarist could control his own mix without obviously affecting everyone else? Also, congrats to your singer (even though you're bummed about the "hiatus"). A chance for the rest of the band to develop some non-vocal, instrumental stuff, maybe? spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 Yeah, Edendude, I was hoping that he would see the benefits of a balanced, lowered stage volume. I think the hardest part for him to get thru this will be realizing lower volumes really make you a more 'honest' player. Can't disguise those screw-ups and jazz notes behind loud volume anymore. Sweet Willie, you just gave me a killer idea! Both guitarists sing, but Judi is the show. When she takes a 'baby break', we can work on different songs tailored for just us guys, and continue working under a different band name until she can start singing again. Oooooh...I gotta email the band. Thanx! And you get credit....but, it won't show up in your paycheck, sorry Bassplayers aren't paid to play fast, they're paid to listen fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Congrats on the reduced volume and the singer's new baby. Along with working up songs for others to sing, you could work up instrumentals (as per Willie), and you could work on some material where the music arrangement is more complicated. You could have that stuff ready for Judi when she comes back. (if you like the idea, give Willie the credit - his thoughts just triggered mine) Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Jammed tonight with drummer and guitarist. Wore my new ER-20s (from Etymotic Research). They kicked ass -- the music sounded good and full-range -- and I protected my hearing all at the same time. Fantastic. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Lyons Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Well guys, I wrote to Hearos praising their product and they sent me a case of free samples 48 pairs of foam ear plugs on cards...can't complain \m/ Timothy Lyons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I'm always amazed what happens when you contact companies. I've had some unbelievably great experiences by just writing a letter. I learned this trick from my Mom, who also has had some success. Glad to hear your appreciation was appreciated Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Originally posted by Timothy Lyons: Well guys, I wrote to Hearos praising their product and they sent me a case of free samples 48 pairs of foam ear plugs on cards...can't complain Wow...maybe I should do the same for their swimming plugs... sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Timothy Lyons: Well guys, I wrote to Hearos praising their product and they sent me a case of free samples 48 pairs of foam ear plugs on cards...can't complain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow...maybe I should do the same for their swimming plugs... Maybe I should send a letter to Fender or Mr. Sadowsky... \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 tazzola, do you swim? check out my swimming page Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig Posted March 22, 2003 Author Share Posted March 22, 2003 Thought I would update everyone about the volume issue of our guitarist, which prompted me to start this thread. We've cancelled all of our gigs (which went into June), except one. And the reason we cancelled isn't due to him. How ironic can ya get? Our lead singer is pregnant, and has had some 'signs' the day after our gigs that the performing strains might be affecting her. Also our drummer has Menieres Disease (a bad inner ear disorder), which can cause him to become extremely disoriented or pass out in the middle of a gig, or driving, or just doing his daily life routine. Just my opinion, but medical or family reasons are always top priority over the music I do, so was actually glad all agreed it was best to cancel everything. I've met musicians who put family, etc, second to the music, but fortunately not in this group. On the good side, we agreed to practice together, which will be at the drummers house, until such time as Judi has had her baby, and the drummer can find a treatment that will keep the ill effects under control. This will be quite a few months, I'm thinking close to a year, during which time we can write some new stuff and just generally keep our chops up. In the mean time, I gotta hit the pavement again and secure some weekend work, 'cause there's no way I could NOT play for many months on weekends. No sir, I wouldn't like it. I've been subbing the last two Friday nites with a country band, which looks like is gonna extend for a bit, so that's cool. The country guys thought since I was working with a rock group, I'd overplay, etc. Boy, were they surprised when I actually played for the music. What a concept! So, I wanted to thank everyone for their inputs, and post this ironic twist to the volume issue that started this thread. Keep on keepin' on! Woohoo! Bassplayers aren't paid to play fast, they're paid to listen fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Good luck with it all, fig. Thanks for the update. Peace. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Originally posted by fig: The country guys thought since I was working with a rock group, I'd overplay, etc. Boy, were they surprised when I actually played for the music. What a concept! I got some of the same comments before I played with my current group. I've played with jazz ensembles, a classical orchestra, and a few heavy metal groups. My dad has always had some of the music I currently play on CD, so I have no trouble figuring it out. Yup, what a concept! Good luck to you and your clan there. Congrats in advance to your singer. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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