JDL Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I mean, interaction with a proffesional is good. But, is it "essential" to being a proffesional your self? I know some/all/a lot of famous proffesionals have made it without lessons and are now giving the lessons. But, can you get the same experience and talent and proffesionalism from books that lessons might(hint *might) help you achieve? I know it depends on the case. i love that avatar Peace, JDL JDL on Purevolume Bird\'s Eye View on Purevolume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNC Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Its not necessary, but it will only make you better. A teacher can expose you, in a short amount of time, to ideas and techniques that they took 30yrs to develope. Its getting a major jump start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Do lessons really make you that much better? Only if you suck that much in the first place. Actually, I'm thinking of starting to take lessons myself. I don't feel that I can take myself any farther. I also want to see the look on the instructor's face when I whip out that ole fretless. "You've been learning on that? That's amazing." Actually, I'm sure it happens all the time. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 You will make yourself better. It depends on your motivation and work ethic. A teacher can help point you in various directions, but you are the one driving. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: You will make yourself better. It depends on your motivation and work ethic. A teacher can help point you in various directions, but you are the one driving.Ridin' that train High on cocaine Casey Jones you better Watch your speed. Sorry, he mentioned driving. I think the only thing I need from lessons at this point is getting theory down. Learn all the keys, some chords, progressions, etc. Basically everything, yeah. At least I can play and sound half decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay J. Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: I think the only thing I need from lessons at this point is getting theory down. Learn all the keys, some chords, progressions, etc. Basically everything, yeah. At least I can play and sound half decent.I'm in pretty much the same boat, I have looked at books and memorized all sorts of scales and arpeggios but can't really get down how to apply it to playing situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: You will make yourself better. It depends on your motivation and work ethic. A teacher can help point you in various directions, but you are the one driving.Yes, exactly. No matter how motivated and self-critical of yourself you are, having a teacher from time to time really helps to: a. point out something that you are not noticing about your playing that is deficient. b. give you new ideas on what to practice and how to utilize your practice time. Ultimately, it's up to YOU to practice and put in the effort to work on things. I owe huge amounts to my teacher that I had in college. He completely kicked me in the ass and gave me a whole new outlook on how to practice and what to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorg Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Right. If you don't feel you need one, don't. For me it is still and has been a great journey. I take lessons once a month. And indeed, it's on your own what you make of it. I must say, my first lessons were quit embarrassing. I thought, after playing for 10 years, I could lay down a steady groove, but MAN after hearing my teacher I noticed I played like SHIT. I missed all the little nuances in timing and phrasing that make the difference. Still working on that almost every day.... One of my good intentions for this year is to be able to play jazz standards and play walking base lines in a decent way. And with the help of my teacher I'm progressing multiple times faster than on my own. So...... it works for me. I can really recommend it to everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 A teacher focuses your mind....approach each lesson like, "How can I impress him this week?" and you'll go far. A teacher keeps you from chasing rabbit trails, making your lesson more efficient. For example, if you like that lowstrung look but you can only play 15 minutes at a time, a teacher can arbitrate a future for you. However, a teacher must, essentially, teach what "has been." Elements of music theory, rhythm, tone, song structure, all that stuff. All that stuff is pretty valuable, and if you're gonna git a "hired on" gig, a working stiff, it's essential. Nobody wants to hire someone not conversant in the pop music language. Teachers cannot teach innovation (although the best ones will support it.) Innovation comes from a players OWN experience with the bass tradition. It is a result of constant re-thinking, re-working and re-living. Those "famous professionals who've made it without lessons" are virtually ALL in the innovator category. Even very "studied" bass players who've made a name for themselves have done so through their innovation. Innovation doesn't always take the role of creating new language like Jaco or Larry Graham. Innovation can be much subtler...Edgar Meyer hasn't really invented new music...but he plays traditional bass fingering and traditional classical music. He just does it better than anybody...(using really thin strings and a microphone to ease fingering.) In the same vein, McCartney innovated by popularizing melodic bass playing. A good teacher will introduce you to the bass tradition, give you your hands and your ears. You supply the mind, heart and work ethic and you'll go far. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Ultimately, JDL, If you're asking that question, and you're not already working, you should take lessons. I'm not going to reiterate points made by everyone else because they all said it better than I could, but I will sound off that the lessons I took made me ten times the player I was before I took those lessons...and a lot of what I was taught really didn't start showing up in my playing until months or years afterward. Only in hindsight did I realize everything that I really gained from having three great bass teachers. Find a teacher. You won't be sorry. And if your avatar is suggesting you want to learn double bass, a good teacher is, in my opinion, required. Otherwise you might hurt yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDL Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Thanks dave!(and the rest of you) But, I don't know if I can afford lessons right now, so I'll just keep lerning from my books until my bass is paid off.(It's supposed to get in from 1/24-2/7) Then, I'll save up, look around for a good teacher and who knows. But, I take lessons for viola when I know I wont really be serious about it. This is a huge pickle I'm in. It's either:Agive up all my connections to viola and/or take other lessons for my bass. How much bass lessons once a month? Peace, JDL JDL on Purevolume Bird\'s Eye View on Purevolume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I had a mediocre bass teacher in high school, but I'm glad that I took lessons. It's been about 15 yrs since my high school lessons and I just re-started lessons again -- "mid-career," so to speak. I've only had two so far. Thus far I'm happy with my teacher, and he has already helped me see some things in my playing that could be stronger. You can see my comments and the comments of others in this thread . I agree with Jeremy and others -- lessons and a teacher can certainly help, but there is plenty of responsibility on you to practice and self-motivate. And to push yourself to work thru tough spots you encounter. Also, the music school where I take my lessons, also offers bass classes. This is slightly more affordable and probably works out well for some players. They also offer classes on different musical genres open to a mixed group of instrumentalists, from which I think smaller ensembles and combos are assembled (one way to get into a situation where you're playing with others -- one of the best ways to learn!) However, I realize that not all locales have these kinds of opportunities. FWIW, if you can make it to the Bay Area in CA or out to TX, take a lesson with Jeremy or DBB if they'll make the time for you! Based on earlier posts by DBB, he has a tight schedule, but he also charges very reasonably! spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDL Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Cool, Willie. Maybe, maybe. JDL, peace JDL on Purevolume Bird\'s Eye View on Purevolume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattC Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 JDL- love that avatar! A good teacher will notice what you're doing wrong, even if you think it's right or don't notice the foible at all. A good teacher will pick you brain and then fill in the swiss-cheese like gaps in your musical knowledge, even if you didn't know those gaps existed. A good teacher will blow your mind away and give you a new reason to work on the impressive-ness of your playing. Ideally, it'll go like this: he impresses you, so you go home and work of his material and come back next week and impress him with your improvement. Later of in the lesson, he'll blow ou mind and the cycle goes on indefinately. A good teacher will give you those deadlines that are crucial to your education. A good teacher will open up new avenues for your playing, such as contests and introductions to other musically notable people. ...and by the by- I first started lessons after 3 years of playing bass, so I had a command of the basics. My teacher, Ken, never took a bass to his lessons- he would teach via a guitar! All those scales and chords that every beginning bass player is taught really come into context when I heard the ii-V-I progression right over them. ...think funky thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 My current bass teacher brings a bass to my lessons. He does, however, occasionally play chords on it while I play a line. My high school bass teacher played piano during my lessons. This was great. We would play thru some jazz standards together at the end of the lesson. He also used to do some ear-training during our lessons -- call a key, play a line on the piano, and then I'd have to repeat it on bass. BTW, our high school amp (which was what I played thru during the lesson) was also an Ampeg B15 fliptop -- cool... spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr M Pulsive Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Yes, absolutely teachers can blast you farther and faster into the NEVERENDING world of learning bass, but only if you're determined, and work AT LEAST as hard as the plans the teacher's set before you demand. I took lessons for about 6 months when I started playing, and even a year or two later, I found myself stumbling onto something while playing and thinking to myself, "Hey, that's what my teacher was showing me, and now it makes sense." And I was NOT a focused student. I truly wish I lived close enough to Dave Brown or Jeremy C, or one of the other teachers here to con 'em into teaching me. (sorry, these are the 2 names I could think of without research) For the record, I feel I'm playing better than I should for the relatively short time I've been playing, but I DO plan to get back into lessons as soon as possible. Anyone can benefit from taking lessons, no matter what experience level you're at. All it takes is an open mind and dedication. And both of those are free of charge! -Mike ...simply stating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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