dcr Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 OK, so I'm diving into the Jamerson thing, & I'm not taking it casually. A huge key to his style, & to funk & R/B playing in general, is tight 16th-note grooves. What's the best way to learn to play these at good speed, cleanly, & with even notes? Drills, exercises, method books, tutorials, whatever...I want to learn to do it right. Man, picking up the Jamerson book is one of the best things I've ever done, bass-wise. It's like a revelation: I hear his lines & I think, Yes!! THAT is the sort of thing I've always wanted to play! I hadn't really paid that much attention to him before, but now that I hear him I'm blown away not only by his playing, but also by how much his grooves match the sorts of grooves I hear in my head. Anyway, the trick is getting it out of my head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Start slow...speed up over time. And keep it greasy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxofunk Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 The 16th note bug has bit me too - though inspired by Rocco. I also have the Jamerson book - Standing in the Shadows of Motown, a great resource. Metronome! Start slow. Alternate rhythms (play a few measures 1 a2 a3 a4 then play 1e 2e 3e 4e) - somehow that helps to keep them straight, just in case you ever want to. - Matt W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Yeah, that book hit me the same way dcr! My only advice about 16th notes is practicing with a metronome, gradually speeding up. I did this for about 15 minutes per night, and after a week I was amazed at how much I had improved. Maybe someday I'll get back on that practice schedule . . . sd Ah, nice marmot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russfingers Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Use the tips of your fingers lightly over the strings.Too much area of the finger can slow you down.I saw a guy put a plywood block between the bass body and the strings so he had no choice but to use his finger tips.When he was ready he would remove the plywood block.Also ,practice,practice and practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by BenLoy: Start slow...speed up over time. And keep it greasy! "Keep it greasy so it'll go down easaaaay.." Starting slow and speeding up over time is the only way to approach this type of playing. If you can't play something up to speed immediately, simply trying to play it at speed and flogging through it horribly is not going to be productive... slow down to a speed where you can play it spot-on every time, then speed up the metronome a bit. "What is Hip?" was one of my personal goals when I started getting into the big 'ol 16th note funky thang. It's an excellent one to shoot for, if for any other reason the octave jumps while playing straight 16th notes at 104bmp (original album tempo). Of course.. when playing "What is Hip?" live, one must ALWAYS remember to keep the drummer from counting the song off at some insane tempo. Like what happened to me in Las Vegas.. hello 130+bmp. aaaaaaahhh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 "What Is Hip" still upsets me. One of these days I'll have the patience. I have an easier time w/ "Sex Machine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWBass Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by BenLoy: "What Is Hip" still upsets me. Hell, try playing "What Is Hip" at double speed! Espescially the part where Rocco is playing 16th. note octaves!! Holy Shit! Rocco and Jaco were the best at playing 16th. notes! It's one thing to play 16th. notes but to play them with a funky swing is even tougher! www.myspace.com/thefunkfather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by dwalmz: Originally posted by BenLoy: "What Is Hip" still upsets me. Hell, try playing "What Is Hip" at double speed! Espescially the part where Rocco is playing 16th. note octaves!! Holy Shit! Rocco and Jaco were the best at playing 16th. notes! It's one thing to play 16th. notes but to play them with a funky swing is even tougher!I'd like to hear someone play "What is Hip?" at double speed (208bmp). I'd also like to hear the rest of the band keep it together at double speed. TOP's album "Live and In Living Color" has a version of "Hip?" that is the fastest I've ever heard them playing it, and it's only around 120bmp (and that's movin'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Too the suggestions that you practice slowly and cleanly and not pluck too hard (excellent advice!), I would add - - Use a metronome or beat box to keep yourself honest. - Record yourself often and listen to the playback. Make sure that the timing is spot on and (just as important) that you're placing the accents in the right place. A lot of "feel" is knowing which notes to PUNCH an which ones to ease up on (and, of course, being able to do it without thinking about it). - Count. - Listen VERY closely to the click (or drum track). Anticipate where the next drum hit is going to occur and resolve to meet it perfectly in time. - Relax and enjoy yourself. Rushing through difficult material causes more problems than it's worth. A band with a stressed out bassist who's trying to groove beyond his capacity is a band with not groove at all. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by Dan South: A band with a stressed out bassist who's trying to groove beyond his capacity is a band with not groove at all.Indeed. If you are *trying* to groove, you most likely are not grooving. Quite the opposite of grooving actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Wilson Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 My humble observations- I am blessed with being in environments where I get to (have to? need to? paid to?) trip down 16th avenue. And this I have noticed: no matter how funky you get, no matter how tight your technique, no matter how wound your sound, if the drummer and (often) keyboard players (love those B3's when played right) don't cooperate in keeping the groove tight, it often don't mean a thing and is all for naught. All those Rocco/Jaco references are very astute, but dig what the other cats are doing: very little. Lots o' space. Molto tight poppen' on the snare. Thus allowing the bass to boil the pot (opening lines to "Hip" for example). Tasty stirring from the band mates really helps set the table. Not to say 16ths are easy to pump n' groove without the practice and developing the technique, but if your partners are not aware of what needs to happen, it can be frustrating. Persevere, practice, listen, and have pity on their miserable, non-grooven souls, for they know not what they do. "Arf", she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 For a long time I've tended to think of all 4/4 music in terms of 16th notes; it's the best way to understand & appreciate the factors of syncopation. I mentally count (as you may already be hip to) 1-e-and-a-2-e-and-a-3-e-and-a-4-e-and-a. This is an excellent way to begin to catch the feel of where slight anticipations occur. I'd start by practicing everything in your repertoire by playing through with alternating pick/finger-strokes (remember you don't need to worry if it's appropriate---this is a learning exercise...& don't be "too hip" to try very simple music or note choices for practice---they can be the best exercises becauase you don't have to concentrate on note selection, etc.); then begin deleting various 16th beats (a standard funk-feel exercise). Working & experimenting with a programmable drum machine is also great...much more effective than a metronome, I think. Once the feeling is internalized, learning other songs will be much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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