Rack vs. regular head rigs

[Jay J.]

I am getting to the point where I am looking to upgrade my rig. I have a good idea of where I want to go as far as the cabs go, but I'm not sure about the head. I'm woundering if it is better to go with a typical head (like a SVT3-pro for example) or to go for a rack set-up with a poweramp/preamp ect.. I am trying to figure the advantages and disadvantages of both.

[tim4003]

I prefer a rack/mount myself. Cabs & 1 rack with everything in it. Much easier!

[g.]

Real good topic for the local search. It has come up lots of times in the last season or two.

[BNC]

I say a regular head. They are generally cheaper, lighter and easier to deal with. Racks give you the advantage of changing either part of your amp, having a backup preamp and power amp (this is starting to get heavy). I have found the advantages of a rack system are not worth it, to me that is.

BNC

[BNC]

Forgot one bit of anti-rack talk. Keep in mind that the more connections and cables you are dealing with the more likely something is to break (ex. g$%^&r players with HUGE pedal boards).

[Wickerman]

Both have advantages but if you have enough cash, you can always get a decent (say SWR WorkingMan's or low end Ampeg) head and an Ampeg or Sansamp preamp and mount them in one box...

[MattC]

A great deal of amps can be rack-mounted- GK's, for example. Tone is always the first thing to shop by, but if you can use a rack, use it. Much else you'll buy (compressors, POD, processors) can be rackmounted, and trust me, having it all is one box, protected and pre-wired, is the way to go. If you have various other things that arean't rackmounted, you'll have to pull apart the cords every time you play; racks help avoid this annoyance.

[Jay J.]

thanks for the responses, I did a search and got a lot of opinions from several past threads. the main thing I was getting at was: should I get a poweramp and preamp or a head (that does both in one unit) I think that a poweramp and preamp could be nice because you can get a new poweramp if you need more juice or get a new peramp if you want a different sound. a little cheaper to upgrade, rather than getting a whole new unit. but a "all in 1" head is probably the easiest way to go.

[MattC]

Shop for tone, friend- everything else comes afterward. Does it really matter what you are using if you find "that" tone? Play everyting you can get your hands on and then make your descision.

[g.]

Before I got involved with bass I watched guitarists I worked with or hung out with get on the grand merry-go-round of Tone. Too bad it's a moving target. And by the time you think you've almost trapped the singular elusive beast and think you are ready to issue the secret word that will get it to Reveal All, it's realized that you are so dizzy from going 'round in circles that you are ready to start all over again ; }

 

Honestly, I've seen so many guys go through rigs and pedals and axes convinced that they have reached the end, only to re-evaluate or give up - and 3 months later be playing pretty much the same kit they had used earlier, which they had given up on and swore was NOT It.

 

So don't let "tone" rule your music. It's one element of many and it will often lie to you. Find a rig that has flexibility and quality and features you think you will desire, and then learn to squeeze what you want out of it - which is usually more about your playing than the gear anyway. Each time you improve your playing and your perceptual ear new things will be revealed to you.

 

All you have to do is get something that meets your needs and keep with it. Simple.

[...]

Ashdown ABA-RPM1 preamp + Mackie 1400i power amp + Bag End S15 cab(x2) = Tone to die for.

 

It's rack mount. You'll love it. It's a way of life...

[g.]

Odd. I have the perfect rig, and NONE of THOSE components are in it - although the Ashdown could be ; }

[earljam]

equipment is fun to talk abt but some folks use it as an excuse. look what mccartney did with a dogshit hofner

[...]

Originally posted by earljam:

equipment is fun to talk abt but some folks use it as an excuse. look what mccartney did with a dogshit hofner

Preach.

 

I find that a lot of no talent players, or beginners with a lot of money, throw expensive gear at their inability to play... hoping that more gear (and more expensive gear) will suddenly make them better players.

[g.]

So the fix is in, J-Funk Allstar: go out and get what McCartney used ; }

[cornbread_medhotmail.com]

I found a mint '67 Hofner bass like Paul's for a mere $3500. I wonder what I can get for a kidney?

[Ben]

Well, cornbread, I've heard that kidneys have a really warm tone and work especially well with effects pedals - the wet tone is to die for.

[Tom Capasso]

Forget the growl - kidneys piss all over for tone.

 

But seriously folks.... I'd been thinking about this myself lately. If you notice, many players go for rack systems instead of single heads. I guess another way to phrase the question is...

 

For those of you that use racks, what features were a deciding factor?

 

If you heard a rack system and thought the tone was the best (and that was your only reason), then that's fine. But if you thought that separate components were easier to trade up/replace upon failure than a head, say that (as one example).

 

I think one reason people have moved toward a rack system is that they buy a POD for the effects/modeling, and since it's a complete preamp they only need a power amp to finish off their setup.

 

What else?

 

Tom

[...]

Originally posted by Tom Capasso:

For those of you that use racks, what features were a deciding factor?

For me it was a tone thing. I use the rig I have now because it sounds absolutely wonderful.. however, I do miss my Ampeg SVT. The only reason I ever sold it was it's distubingly colossal weight. If I had other people to move my stuff for me... I might go back to the SVT.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

i got into using separates because i used to work for crown. i bought my K2 (500W per channel in 8ohms) for about $1000 less than i was seeing it in catalogs, and i figured it would work for home, studio, or my bass rig.

 

then i started looking at preamps...then i started looking at preamps that i could afford. i finally found a pair of used preamps from one of the guys who comes around here every so often for a price that was really beneficial to me.

 

like greenboy said, the best rig is one that offers flexibility, which mine does. (should i be surprised that one of my preamps, and probably my preferred of the two i own, is the same that he uses?) all of my components generally only color the sound as much as i dial them to do. if everything is set flat, they sound surpisingly similar, very clean, and very much like my pickups and bass. that is a lot more than i can say about a lot of gear out there.

 

i can't say that i would have chosen to go separates if i hadn't gotten the utilitarian K2, but i didn't really think about replacing my carvin combo until i got the K2. i am very much glad in hindsight, though, that i have, because i now have a very open and flexible world that works just as well live as in the studio. i can mic my rig and/or send a direct signal, pre- or post-processing, and i have all the control. i love that.

 

now i need a new cabinet, because the 300W/4ohm cabinet can't really handle the K2 (800W into 4ohms). i could have worse problems.

 

robb.

[Ben]

For me it's partly about tone and partly about being a gear junky. Before I went to a rack system I was using a GK1001RB, a surprisingly nice amp for the price and especially the size and weight. But it was a little hissy, and, being built to a price, had inexpensive pots that were noisy. I could still be using it and I doubt anybody but me would care.

 

Now I use an Avalon U5 plus Stewart 1.2. It sounds really good, and is very quiet. It definitely sounds better than the GK, but not that much better. And it definitely has more headroom than the GK, but not that much.

 

I am a hi-fi freak of long standing, and a do-it-yourself electronic hobbyist, and when I look inside these components I see all the right stuff in there, which gives me satisfaction in a geeky sort of way. I am a hi-fi sort of bass player, too. I want to have a nice bass with a good sound and then have the amp components reproduce that sound in a hi-fi way. No effects at all for me, and no real need for all the tone controls and equalizer sliders and scoop knobs that you see on a lot of bass amps.

 

Also, when you buy a quality PA amp, you can get real power and distortion specs, like the continuous power rating from 20Hz to 20,000Hz at less than 0.1% distortion. This doesn't tell you how the amp sounds, but it tells you what ballpark you are in for power. Most bass amp manufacturers - including high-end ones that should know better (e.g. Mesa, EA, EBS, Aguilar) - don't tell you squat for specs.

 

And, like componenent hi-fi, you can change one item at a time, e.g. just the preamp if you want one of the new Joe Meek Fatheads, or to upgrade to a Stewart 1.6 now that the prices have come down (just to pick two, uhh, random examples).

 

One other nice thing about racks is if you get one with a little space to spare you can put your cords, tuner, strap, whatever right in the rack and close it up when not in use.

[Sandman]

I have a related question that i thought fit this thread. I currently have a SWR workingmans 300 and i love how it sounds, but it just isn't quite powerfull enough. Is it possible to send the signal from this head to a power-amp for more power?

 

I don't actually have the amp with me currently or i would inspect it for various outs that would give me clues's to answer my question. I figured a veteran from this board probably knows a thing or two that could help me.

[Jage]

Windsor, I just looked at the 300's manual on SWR's site,and it says it has a recording direct out on it. It would be possible to get volume control if you had a mixer/mic preamp between it and the power amp(the signal itself will probably be too quiet even if you bump up the power amp's gain, you'll probably want the extra gain control offered by a mic pre). Also, in a live situation, you can feed that signal to the board and ask for as much as you need in the monitors.

[BassMann2112]

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

Ashdown ABA-RPM1 preamp + Mackie 1400i power amp + Bag End S15 cab(x2) = Tone to die for.

 

It's rack mount. You'll love it. It's a way of life...

No doubt!!! This is a to Die for rig.

[BassMann2112]

Forget the rack mounts, pod gear, effects, and all of the Solid State amps for that matter. Go check out a all tube bass head by http://www.ashdownmusic.co.uk/

or may I suggest the Trace Elliot V8, or maybe the Ampeg ProII all tube heads are the way to go... If your strong enough to transport the tank that is.

 

Tubes rule, others drool

 

"IMO"

[Bill C from Nashvegas]

Some days I feel like the simple approach, it would be nice to get to a gig, lift out a light little combo or lightweight head/cab...other days I want the balls of the tube head and a 2x15 cab....other days I feel like playing with a rack full of toys running biamped into two cabs...

 

There is not simple answer!!!!!

[zzzzz]

Rack set ups are generally more expensive but more flexible and easy to upgrade.With heads to upgrade you have to buy a new one.Use your ears as your guide for tone but don't break your bank if you don't have to.I'm pretty happy with my head a Sunn 1200s.It has lots of power 1200 watts @ two ohms a ten band graphic,bass and treble knob and a great sounding two band compressor.

[Jason Hoyt]

Or you could buy an amp like my SVT4Pro and throw it in a rack case -along with a tuner, a BBE, and a power conditioner.... I think either way, you'll end up throwing all your stuff in a case if you want to protect it anyway... Not to mention the orange Christmas light bulbs I put in my power conditioner add to the stage show ...

[SteveC]

I have a seperate syetem right now. I have a 6 space rack with a power conditioner, my wireless, Demeter tube preamp, a compressor, EQ, and effects. I use this when I have a PA to go through.

 

If its a gig without a PA, small club or something, I add a 4 space rack that has a power amp and run it through a SWR 2X10 cab.

 

I like the flexibility it offers depending on the gig and PA situation. It is more expensive, and if I have to take it all, more to haul around (not so bad with a cart) but the sound is fantastic.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by BassMann2112:

Go check out a all tube bass head by http://www.ashdownmusic.co.uk/

BassMann2112,

 

I think the Ashdown amps are hybrids -- tubes and solid state. At least their top tier ABM EVO stuff is -- blending FET and tube technology in the preamp stage and MOSFET for power. I think the MAG stuff is all solid state. I'm not sure about the Electric Blue stuff, but I think that's solid state as well.

 

However, they sound awesome. In Chicago, a great place to check them out is at Musicians Network in the 5000's on N. Clark St.

 

Peace.