Effects

[Wally Malone]

After all these years of playing without effects, the bug has hit me. The last couple of months I've been checking out various multi-effects and single effect units. I tried out the GT-6B the first time through headphones and it sounded OK. I went back to the store and tried it through the same amp as I have. To be honest I wasn't that impressed. A bass player friend said I should try the EBS pedals. I tried the UniChorus and it sounded great. He then lent me his second set-up which has an EBS Octabass and a Boss Chorus. I like the sound of the EBS UniChorus better than the Boss. What I'm looking at getting are the EBS UniChorus, the EBS IQ for the funk stuff and today I won an auction on ebay for a black label EBS Octabass. Also in the set-up he let me try he had a TU-2 tuner. I'll probably add that as well since it can tune my B string as my TU-12 will not. The negative side with the EBS stuff is the price. Looks like I'll be checking ebay alot these days.

 

Wally

[g.]

I was just about to start an effects topic. I've been writing a few patches for my Peavey TransTubeFEX again. I just came up with a clean, "tubey" tremelo patch that will take me anywhere from DEEP Dick Dale to David Lindley or Ali Farka Toure or Ry Cooder on baritone guitar. One tap of a switch changes the upper tonality while compressing down below always keeps a layered bass sheen present for booty. Complete with switchable 'verb in the upper layer, and octave doubling up or down.

 

Writing a patch that has flexibility without degrading tone or compromising the bass booty function is a challenge at times. I make 'em so that if I wanted to click each effect module on or off, or mod it with footswitch and pedal during a song the average volume and low end remains constant and full and punchy.

 

These patches are real inspirations for songwriting and riff ideas! When you can have heavy tremelo with a good pick sheen like surf music on a heavy planet, and it never messes with the tightness of the groovin', it encourages one to faggedabout covers - and second guitar players!

[Mike H.]

I own two EBS pedals - the IQ and Multidrive. Both are fantastic, and well worth the extra dollars you pay for them. The Boss TU-2 tuner pedal is the best "money well spent" item I've ever purchased. It works as a tuner, AC adaptor with a daisy chain cord, as well as a mute switch if you need to switch basses, and most importantly - SILENT TUNING ON STAGE! No more tuning tones through the P.A. system.

 

http://hometown.aol.com/karlimike/mikesbasspage.html

[Wally Malone]

Originally posted by greenboy:

Writing a patch that has flexibility without degrading tone or compromising the bass booty function is a challenge at times. I make 'em so that if I wanted to click each effect module on or off, or mod it with footswitch and pedal during a song the average volume and low end remains constant and full and punchy.

greenboy, that's what led me to the EBS, I found them very easy to set and be able to accomplish what you stated above.

 

Wally

[LM Bass]

After about 12 years as a pure non-effects guy, I just got back into 'em. I bought a Raven Labs MDB-1 and Boss SE-70. I now have lots of tweaking to fill my non-existent downtime with! : )

 

I have found that the control I use most is the AUX blend on the mixer. I like to take the FX right out when needed. I do have some patches I run at fully "Wet", though. These are EQ'ed for different basses, with and without effects in the patch. The EQ'ed patches tend to sound phased when mixed in with the dry signal. I find that I like reverb best, especially for solos. I have a neat synth patch that I blend in subtly with the direct signal for 80's disco tunes with the corporate wedding band I play in. I tried EBS stuff and liked it, but I really only want to carry one extra box with me.

[g.]

LM, the reason you might hear out-of-phase signal even when NOT using a time domain effect (such as EQ) is because the the signal passing through the effects unit will always be shifted back (delayed) slightly due to the time it takes to process digitally, so that is phase shifted relative to the direct, non-delayed signal. In those cases you have to run 100% wet. This is actually the reason most manufacturers of heads/preamps don't bother putting a "mix" knob on their effects loops.

 

Similarly, many effects for bass can end up being problematic because the bass's function in rhythmic music requires solid low end and non-disturbed transient response, and so many effects are time based: chorus, flanging, delay, even the early-reflections part of reverb. In the past I've solved this by using a crossover and having the effects unit on the high-pass output of the x-over just before the top-cab power amp side.

 

With the Peavey TransTubeFEX, though, there is a crossover module that can be placed anywhere in its internal routing. So I can always keep my low end below whatever frequency I choose free of anything that affects transients and signal phase. The x-over module actually allows one to overlap the two signals by setting the high side for say 60 Hz, while the low side goes up to 120 Hz.

 

How this affects sound: the other day I was working on an envelope filter patch that used a lowpass filter with lots of resonance, wondering where the bass response had gone that I had until I introduced the env filter module. Then I remembered I had overlapped the top band so the slight overdrive was doubled with the clean signal down below. So I set the x-over for standard operation (identical freq knee for each side of the x-over), and voila - I again had fast and solid low end.

 

Usually, but not always, anything that has time or slight pitch change I keep above 110 Hz or more. You'd be surprised how much more articulation a reverb or chorus patch has when the low end doesn't get muddied, and yet still rich. The levels one would see going to a mixer are also more stable.

[g.]

I just wrote a mildly distorted, pronounced envelope filter patch that can function as 1) a clean modern unaffected tone with just EQ and movable midrange by treadle 2) a distorted tone, with movable midrange by treadle 3) clean rubbery and obvious envelope filter with enough pick attack to always be articulate, that wah-wahs when treadle is moved 4) distorted envelope filter with enough distortion to especially accentuate the envelope properties on the overtones, that wah-wahs when treadle is moved 5) envelope cutoff can switch between two different settings with assignable footswitch 6) mild octave doubling upward or downward on footswitch

 

All that in one patch, with a constant bass content regardless of what is engaged, and with all functions matched in volume. It sounds great no matter what, with even response across the range of the instrument. Works great for grooving and can if desired, make a second guitarist superfluous.

[_Sweet Willie_]

I recently got a used EBS MultiComp compressor pedal. I like it a great deal, and try not to overdo it (i.e., I don't use it all the time, because my fingers can do some of the work!). I could see collecting the BassIQ and maybe even the OctaBass over time. These pedals are pretty small in size, light in weight, and sturdy, so lugging a few of them to a gig wouldn't be too big a deal.

 

I also purchased a Boss CEB-3 bass chorus last year. What's nice about this pedal (like the EBS UniChorus, I believe), is that I have some control over how much my lower frequencies are subject to the effect. Thus I can avoid some of the muddiness that chorus on the low end sometimes creates, and affect only higher frequencies, keeping a solid low end sound (like GB discussed above).

 

However, I am not a big effects user. From time to time I like some compression when I slap or a little chorus on my fretless, but I still first set up great "un-effected" sound and then sometimes build on it with effects. (I defintely see an envelope filter in my future...but when is still a mystery.)

 

I don't know if one day I would have either the need or the patience to experiment with patches and combinations of effects that would lead me to a multi-effects unit.

 

Peace,

--sweets

[ERIC31]

Wow. You guys are going for the high end stuff.

 

I love my pedals and they are cheapies pretty much. DOD envelope filter (the dark green one) and a DOD chorus (regular). They work great with my j bass. It's not the cleanest setup, but it works for me. I plan on adding a bass grunge pedal to the lineup as soon as I can find one. Nobody seems to have one they will part with.

[g.]

The tuner on my TransTubeFEX allows you to tune with or without volume sent downstream, the toggle is on the global page.

[groucho]

Boy oh boy am I living in the past

I have a pedal board I built in 1986

and never changed it

It has a Mutron III Envelope Filter,

MXR Flanger, Morley Vol/Wah (huge

old chrome one) Boss DD2 delay, Boss BC9

Bi Chorus, MXR Limiter( the big red AC one)

I went into a "nofx" head for quite a few years

and only recently have started using some again.

[ii7-V7]

You guys might as well be speaking greek to me!

 

You Lika The Chorus? The Chorus is Good, No? I get you more Chorus.

 

Chad

[Jason Hoyt]

Effects add a bit of diversity to anyones sound, as long as you use them in moderation and in combination with different playing techniques...IMHO I have a sh**load of effects, but lately I haven't used any of them. I actually had to build a two tier pedalboard to accomadate all my junk. I think effects are a great way to break out of a creative rut, and discover new sounds. If you hear the bass differently, maybe you think of the bass differently, I dunno... I do know that, sometimes I really like bare bones bass playing, and sometimes I like to give Doug Wimbish a run for his money .

[SteveC]

Effects - what a topic. I have gone back and forth and back again, and again, and again. I started with no pedals. Then I built a board with about 7 effects. Then I went back to straight bass tone. Then I got a POD. Then I went simple. Now I'm back to a rack mount multi-effects unit.

 

I play in a couple of different groups. One is a funk band where I don't use effects much at all. The other is a jazz combo where I like to use some chorus, maybe some delay, pitch shift for octaves, etc.

 

I like the convience of having everything rack mounted. I don't often change effects during a tune, so I can just set it and leave in, not needing to stomp them on and off. If I find I need that later, I can always add a MIDI control pedal.

 

All that being said, I still don't use effects very much. I like straight tone most of the time. But sometimes you just need that little something. I decided to add the rack mount unit because of convience, nice useable sounds, edit-ability, and I got a great deal on it used. Of course, I seem to cycle about every 6 - 12 months.

[Mike H.]

Originally posted by groucho:

Boy oh boy am I living in the past

I have a pedal board I built in 1986

and never changed it

It has a Mutron III Envelope Filter,

MXR Flanger, Morley Vol/Wah (huge

old chrome one) Boss DD2 delay, Boss BC9

Bi Chorus, MXR Limiter( the big red AC one)

I went into a "nofx" head for quite a few years

and only recently have started using some again.

You've got some cool effects pieces, and it works for you man. As the saying goes, "If it isn't broke, don't fix it."

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

I have a lot of electric guitar effects but mostly they just sit in the closet. I'm enjoy the pure "twang" of tube amps.

 

For my bass guitar I use some of the effects in my Bass POD. The Bass POD probably isn't everyones cup of tea but I love the fact that you can program a preset sound to have it's own effect, EQ, amp model, cabinet simulation, compression, etc. I can go from a mellow jazz tone to a distorted heavy metal tone just buy changing the preset. Because I only own one bass "at the moment " it extends the variety of sounds I can get.

 

I am curious about some of the overdrive pedals out there, the Fulltone Bass Drive and the EBS MultiDrive. I hope to check them out eventually.

[Wally Malone]

Originally posted by sweet_loop:

I recently got a used EBS MultiComp compressor pedal. I like it a great deal, and try not to overdo it (i.e., I don't use it all the time, because my fingers can do some of the work!).

sweet_loop, tell me more about the EBS MultiComp. I may add that to the wish list along with the UniChorus and the IQ.

 

Wally

 

Wally

[g.]

I've written some pretty good posts in other threads that would be useful for any company that wishes to build a multieffects unit that would be embraced by playing pros. To encapsulate, certain features need to be there, and routing needs to be flexible, and the quality of the algorithms must be top-notch so that the unit does each thing it does with the best sonic impact, so that players do not miss leading stomp-box units of each type.

 

What I like about the multieffects approach is that if done right, it can give one "orchestrational" abilities within one patch. There are a number of examples on studio albums where the bass's tone and subtle (and not so subtle) effects change during the course of a song, say, from verse to chorus, or during an instrumental section.

 

With a multieffects unit of a similar design to the Peavey TransTubeFEX one can within one preset not only footswitch different effects in with proper tonal balance compared to the non-effected tone, but can also use an assignable footswitch to change the character to another set of parameters of one or more of those effects. But all "orchestrational" effects use aside, one of the coolest things is that one can have a couple of EQ and a couple of tube voicings available at the flick of a switch. So instead of switching presets, one can work within a preset to say, have a classic cleaner tone with just a bit of tube grunt for one song section, and a more overdriven sound with slightly more upper bight and a scoop in the mids, for another song section, and still have a tonal continuity - a "basic" tone.

[Tom Capasso]

You know greenboy, I don't always understand your patch descriptions (partially because I don't have any effects - digital or otherwise), but the sound descriptions always intrigue me. When I test boxes in a store, I'm looking to "orchestrate", not just crunch my sound. I think most of us are looking for that. When I read how "professionals" record, they are using multiple feeds to get wet and dry on separate tracks to they can be "mixed".

 

It seems like you're on to what many of us are looking for...

 

Hey Wally, there's a guy selling a full set of EBS pedals on the dudepit, with pedal board and all....

 

Tom

[g.]

Tom Capasso: I don't always understand your patch descriptions (partially because I don't have any effects - digital or otherwise)

Could be I am glossing over the basics to get to the details before my fingers expire. Let me know if there is some specific assumptions that are clouding the understanding.

 

the sound descriptions always intrigue me. When I test boxes in a store, I'm looking to "orchestrate", not just crunch my sound. I think most of us are looking for that. When I read how "professionals" record, they are using multiple feeds to get wet and dry on separate tracks to they can be "mixed".

Good point, Tom. In the studio any passage using effects can best be mixed for wet-dry, levels, bass support, EQ on both effects and dry signal tracks, keeping the clarity and the evenness of the foundation, and also making the effect do something without it taking just as much away.

 

Live, one hears and experiences the downside of effects much more obviously. Other band members or the audience certainly can get disturbed if the sense of BASS and timing is unclear.

 

John Turner has solved this by using a switcher (switchblade); it allows more routing options. Some guys use a separate rig - often a guitar one on the high side of a rackmount crossover. In the past when I was doing heavy duty electronic sax treatments I often had my own rig, homemade pedal board, rack, fottpedals and switches, alll fed into a _{mixer to function as a switcher/router with adjustable levels and EQs.}

 

_{But the tech has come a long way in some respects. Its possible to build units with internal routing options in firmware, and I think it's especially appropriate for bass because of the bass's important role in sustaining grooves and time, and the tendency for low frequencies to be compromised so easily by phase (any time-domain effect), mild pitch-shifts such as found in LFO-driven effects (flange, chorus, etc).}

 

_{Anyway, the best I've found over the years that was in my price range and a 1-rack package is the Peavey TransTubeFEX. It isn't perfect but its damn close for its age, and with some understanding of effects in general, and its ways in specific, it can really pull off some great stuff with a minimum of real estate. The Digitech BP-8 is less powerful (and in some ways easier to get into at first), but has good sonic quality and effects algorithms. A couple other units have their good points, but lack a couple of essential tone or performance features IMO.}

 

_{I keep hoping Lexicon will do something like their recently-dsicontinued guitar processor for serious bass pros, though that puppy was too expensive, or that Peavey will build something similar to the TubeFEX - only especially for bassists and using the current chip tech sonic improvements.}

 

_{But all these companies always claim there isn't much demand for bass products. And they are right! There isn't because they have always ignored the building of such a market, or have introduced such compromised half-a**ed products that many bassists have given up or resigned themselves to more complex and part-time-only solutions.}

 

_{Fortunately, Roland at least has taken bass seriously recently - and though it isn't strictly or primarily an effects unit - has built a real tool: the V-Bass. Effects designers could take a page from that book. Right now the only energy expended on multieffects units for bass seems to be at the low end. Which is fine, but it really means some sonic quality and flexibility and performance oriented features are lacking too.}

 

_{The only other action has been in "modeling" units that actually are more interested in simple use of limited effects (that's fine too) and are so far behind in the effects sophistication that professional-level guitarists enjoy if they are so inclined.}

[jeremy c]

I had pedals, got rid of them all, bought a midi-controlled multi-effect, got rid of it and went back to pedals.

 

I spent hours writing patches. Various things to duplicate the sound of pedals and combinations of pedals. And since I created these patches in a quiet room at low volume, none of them worked on stage.

 

On stage it's pretty hard to go into the third sub-menu and change a parameter.

 

I ended up writing 8 different chorus patches so I could find one that worked on stage.

 

But it's easier to reach down and change the "depth" control on a pedal.

 

And 99.9% of the time, I don't use effects. The other players don't like them, they just want a solid bassplayer. And unless you use each effect only once per show, you are overusing them.

 

And the bass sounds a lot better without going through all the extra preamps and cabling that comes with the pedals.

 

My pedal board (which I have used once this year) (and I've done probably around 100 gigs) has:

5 boss pedals:

chorus ce-3

bass chorus ceb-3

octaver oc-2

harmonist hr-2 (used for octave up or detuning effects)

bass synthesizer syb-3

and an electro-harmonix q-tron

 

my Mu-Tron III has been retired to my "hall of fame" or should I say my "closet of fame"

[g.]

Hmmm. Had trouble at first with effects levels in patches, then after a few sessions writing presets and going to a gig and back again, I pretty much had it nailed. Again though, the unit I'm using allows me to be a lot more subtle, and the first thing I concentrate on is the basic tonal personality that I've established, before any effects are layered in.

 

Also, because this unit is so flexible, I can use either assignable footswitch or footpedal to access totally different values (I leaned on that at first, storing alternate versions of sounds in case I was too over the top. Now I don't seem to need to, and can use it more like a keyboardist would use a CC in live performance).

 

I don't particularly care what others want or don't want as far as effects go though - I don't have to! Heh ; }  I just do what feels right to me at the time (which seems to cycle). And when I compose, effects are integral. Maybe it's because I came from other instruments and have always been involved with effects for them and consider it "orchestration" in a small band format.

 

Yeah, when I was using a big footprint of floor units I didn't like having so much always on the signal chain even when not in use, though having a buffer preamp in front of the chain helped. And the setup and troubleshooting! No thanks! I'm getting better tone now whether effects are engaged or bypassed or any combination thereof.

[Johntp]

This may not me exactly on topic but here go's...What effects is Pino Palladino using on Don Henley's New York Minute besides a Boss octave? I know he's playing a frettless but there sounds like something else in there also..like an envelope filter? Just curious.

[g.]

bassaddik, hope you are reading today - meant to ask you when we were talking how it is going with the V-Bass. What you are discovering and what is the hot fun for you currently? : }

[dcr]

Hey, isn't there already a separate thread or two about bassadik & the V-Bass?

 

 

Feets don't fail me now!!!

[g.]

; }}}}

 

Actually I thought of you, dcr, when considering whether to start a new thread for just this one item! …But then I thought I should after all be able to tie anything bassaddik say about his cool V-bass into my concept of effective EFFECTS use ; }

 

; P

[LM Bass]

Hey Greenboy,

 

Thanks for your reply about the phasing I was hearing.

 

I think you're right about multi-effects over pedals too. I like the portablity and simplicity. I had the GT6-B out on a gig once, and I just played with the presets, twiddling knobs all night instead of focusing on playing bass. It's better just to have a few well written patches in one little box. I wish I had the crossover capabilities that your Peavey has though. The SE-70 does have pretty good parameters for low pass and high pass on the reverb patches and chorus, a good tuner that works as a bypass. I found a metronome, too (My student was probably less than happy when the "Tick Tick Tick" started at his lesson, though.)

 

I got around the phasing problem by copying my EQ patch to 2 seperate locations, and adding the effects I like to one of them. Now I can just go to fully "Wet" and switch between the EQ'ed patches for that bass. I don't really notice latency when the effects are full wet, but it makes sense that it would be there, in the digital domain.

[Adamixoye]

I would like to post briefly in defense of the GT-6B...

 

I tried to start a thread on it after I bought it, but it never really got going; the only response of significance was Greenboy's extensive review.

 

A good many people I've heard tend to downplay/criticize the GT-6B. There are two possible reasons for this:

 

(a) They're right

(b) They're wrong

 

I tend to think the answer is both. It's by no means a perfect unit...it's more focused on the raw number and variety of effects than it is the quality of said effects. But, its capabilities are quite extensive if you tinker with it. I would imagine most people who simply see it in the showroom don't really know what you can change, which is just about everything.

 

I consider myself a bass player first, but I do play a significant amount of g@#$%r; I don't even have an amp for this lesser instrument, I just run it through my bass amp. And I also now run it through my GT-6B...where it has a chance to shine. The variety of distortions and other effects you can get through the unit really enhance my g@#%$r playing; but it took a while to get used to. Unlike g@#%$r, I haven't made too many of my own patches for bass, because while some of the presets are clearly over-the-top showroom gimmicks, plenty of others are immediately useful. But I will get around to making those patches eventually.

 

I was in a rock band several years back that the GT-6B would have been perfect for; now I only play at church and the unit is definitely up to that task. So while I'm sure there are better units out there, and while it does have its defects, for the money, the GT-6B is king of the toys, and I would submit it's a bit underrated and actually quite serviceable for someone like me, moderate hobbyist/church band member.

[Wally Malone]

I'm looking for a Boss BCB-6 pedal case. It seems that they're a discontinued item. I've seen some on ebay but I don't know the value. I've checked with music stores and no one seems to no either. Anybody have a clue?

 

Wally

[g.]

Adamixoye, none of them are perfect units. About all one can do is assess what they'd like to achieve and look for a solution.