Building bass lines question

[Zack]

I recently started writing songs with my best friend/guitarist. While he comes up with great chord progressions and licks, I am increasingly frustrated by my lack of knowledge about actually creating a bassline for the songs. I know many scales, and my bass teacher taught me a lot of music theory, but I still don't know what's appropriate to play besides roots and fifths. I love McCartney's walking bass, Jack Bruce's eccentric counterpoints, and Jamerson, Clarke, Ray Brown, and all of their lines. What I can't figure out is how they came up with them! I am desperate to create my own walking, fluid lines. Can anyone explain it to me or lead me to someone who can?

[Tom Capasso]

It seems like you have the tools - knowledge of theory, and a wealth of "listening" experience (J Bruce and P McCartney). Now you have to put them together, and like so many skills, it takes practice.

 

You may find that trying to come up with a killer set of notes to get from Em to Bm9 while your guitar player has moved on to write the bridge is just too much. If you are doing the lyrics and melody together (?) then that takes concentration away from your line.

 

You may want to take a set of progressions and have your guitar player record them for you. They will be played in the style your band favors, and you can sit at home trying as many wacky note and rhythm combinations as you like. This will be a chance to write the bass lines on your own for now, and give you practice.

 

I spent a few years in a band that did lots of originals. The songs evolved (I have early tapes and studio recordings that show the changes). While you are working together, get the song down (chords, lyrics, melody). You can add the bass part later - even if it means some shifts in the arrangements.

 

Creativity is something you learn to express, and even the great ones don't nail every part right out of the box (listen to the Beatles Anthology for proof).

 

Have fun with it!! You may find that a few months from now a line has developed into something cool you can be proud of !!

 

Tom

[dcr]

Tom, this is TOTALLY off topic (sorry!!), but something recently struck me like a ton of bricks while listening to the Anthology CDs: for all the misses, flubs, & mistakes--if you listen, you'll be very, very hard pressed to find any of them coming from the bass...check it out. That guy was SOLID!

[Paul Harwood]

Howdy,

Much has to do with the drum part. Tonics and 5ths are ok and can make very dramatic lines on their own. But how the bass grooves with the drums, is the main function of the bass line. Start with notes only on the bass drum beats with only the tonics of the chord progression. Then see if you can hear something in your head that you'd like to add. Find it and do it.

That's the shortest I can make it.

Counterpoint or heavy virtuuosity is thinking more like a cello player or a " tenor guitarist".

don't be afraid to use some guitar licks on a bass.

All notes of a scale or arpegio are fair game for a bass line, just as for any melody line. Bass just does it like conga fills, very rhythmically, compared to long fluid melodies.

It's rat, tat tat tat, pop pop pop ...

boom, boo boom boom, tata tata,ta. Like drum fills.

Cheers,

PH

[groovehead]

I couldnt agree with everyone else more. I always start with the root and just keep playing the song through several times until I know the chord progression. Then I just start adding notes that go with the overall feel of the song. If something doesnt sit well, I remove it and try something else. Make sure you know whether you are playing under a minor or major chord as well. This will guide you in deciding which note choices are more appropriate than others. Then, once you have a line you like, start experimenting with differnt techniques like slapping or popping. Writing bass lines is a lot of fun and can give a real sense of creative .accomplishment when done well. Above all, remember to just have fun playing and not get too hung up on theory (although a little theory is necessary and goes a long way). Just make the song groove!!

[basspatient]

I'm not sure if someone pointed this out or not, but when I'm creating basslines from a riff or chord progression that starts with guitar I have found that alot of times my ideas start with what is happening with the drum beat and what is working there. That seems to be the culprit for me to create something unique within the song itself, instead of just playing roots and such (even though sometimes that is the best thing, depending on what the song needs and calls for).

[ERIC31]

I also just start with the root. It's the foundation for me and as we play the song over and over little fills and runs just pop up. The more comfortable you get with the song, the more creative you can get with the lines. Don't get too crazy and forget to keep it in the pocket though! Good luck!

[NickT]

I sometimes use a technique I read in an interview with Flea. Get the guy with the idea to play the idea to you over and over. Then...put down the bass. Step away from your instrument. Don't touch it. Listen and sing a part. Sub-conciously you're ears and brain understand everything about harmony (inversions etc.)

 

Close your eyes and sing the line. When you have something that you keep singing then and only then pick-up the bass and work out what you were singing. It can really help to bring a sense of counter-point and intertwining to the two parts.

 

Between you, you are attempting to have a musical conversation, so let your voicebox do some of the work for you. It can also help stop you from playing the same licks all the time. (A problem I had before I tried this.)

 

Having said all that, LISTEN TO THE DAMN DRUMMER. Take that counter melody that you sung and make it groove with the drum beat. (This may mean a little shuffling of notes or accents here and there.)

 

If all else fails, pick-up your copy of "Standing in The Shadows of Motown", (what do you mean you don't own it ) and steal something from there. If you're gonna nick an idea, nick it from the best. Jamerson's parts are like doo-wop vocal harmony lines. The master of groov, melodic support and contrast.

[Dan South]

I like NickT's suggestion. Here's another one.

 

Record a song with your guitarist (drummer optional), but for your part just play the root on one and then lay out for the rest of the song. So, for example, if your song goes:

 

Am D F G ...

 

play

 

A (rest-rest-rest) D (rest-rest-rest) F ...

 

In other words, you're creating a VERY sparse part on purpose. The bass line is going to have lots of big holes in it, and you're going to figure out how to fill UP those holes. Here's how:

 

Listen back to the playback. Put your bass down, relax, and just listen. Listen while you're sitting, walking, driving, falling asleep, when you first get up, etc. Your mind will start coming up with rhythms, fills, etc. to fill up those deadful open spaces. I guarantee that this will (a) start happening right away, and (b) continue to happen as you listen to the song more.

 

Now, the trick is to get the ideas out of your head and onto the bass, and that's a skill that will only come with work. If you have trouble, just listen to a couple measures at a time and try to nail down the ideas that you "hear" during those few seconds of music. Another idea is to sing a bass line along with the tape. Don't be ashamed; get up and play air bass, jump around, and sing the parts that you hear in your head. If you have another recorder (or another track on a multitrack), try recording these vocal improvisations. Don't worry, no one will hear them but you. You can go back later and figure out what notes to play to replicate the sung parts. This is a good technique, because sometimes when we start thinking about the mechanics of playing and identifying notes, we switch off the creative circuitry in the brain. Organization and creativity are mutually exclusive at any given moment. Just jam and let it flow and worry about cleaning it up later.

 

Good luck!!!

[D_dup3]

Lotsa good advice here but keep in mind that there's not just one good approach---even for a single song !

(For instance, sometimes you want to "groove with the drums", sometimes you want to take a more independent, jazzy approach.)

Various styles often call for certain methods but you can be innovative.

[Zack]

Thank you very much to all who replied. I have begun creating some basslines for some songs, and since, more or less, everyone's suggestions were based on similar themes, I really understand much more about basslines. Thanks again!

 

PS- I ended up re-listening to the Beatles Anthology to see what Tom was talking about, and it really aided my understanding to see how the fellas would develop their songs (including Macca's basslines), and how the songs weren't perfect on the first try.

[JazzV]

Another thing to look at is to really pay attention to the chords themselves. An A is not always an A, though the guitarist will usually say it is.. It may be an A2, an Asus, an Am, an A7, ad infinitum. I usually try to incorporate this information to give myself additional "good" notes, (the 2nd, B, for an A2 for example) to spice up my lines. Well, then you have to get from your root to your fifth. Do you walk it? Do you slide it? Do you arpeggiate it? In other words, roots and fifths are just chord tones. Don't be afraid to experiment with 3rds, 7ths, or other chord tones. At the same time, remember that you don't want to stray too far away from roots and 5ths, though, since you really are providing the foundation for the group. It's getting that blend that's the tough part. Good luck.