Ear Monitors. Has anybody tried them?

[spider]

Hey guys:

The band and sound crew had a meeting the other day and the subject of in-ear monitors came up. Guess who brought it up..the sound guys. It is my understanding that these things will solve the 100db stage volume problem because we would need our amps anymore...and they will also save our back cause we won't have to lug or 100lb rigs around anymore, and we will solve the wiring clutter on stage cause we won't have so many amps laying around.. and in fact, in ear monitors will help cure world hunger. I can't even fathom not using my rig. I would suffer from separation anxiety, and start beating the crap out of my bass because of the lack of control.

 

Anybody use these things?

 

P.S. The only reason we use our rigs onstage is for monitors, everybody goes through the main board.

[Wickerman]

I've used them. They're sent from heaven! If you're a singer I don't see any other way to go. They really helped me.

[J.T.]

When the D'Addario 'super band' (Pattitucci, Mintzer...etc.) came to Mars in Nashville they were demoing the in ear monitors and you could step up and hear each member's personal mix while the playing was going on through demo sets near the board. I have to say that it sounded really good. Kind of like listening to a cd. If I were in a band that only used amps as monitors, I'd love to go for a whole setup like that. No amps, just in ear monitors- no more lugging. Show up fifteen minutes before the show, plug into the board, stick your phones in your ears and go to town. The way it SHOULD be.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by J.T.:

When the D'Addario 'super band' (Pattitucci, Mintzer...etc.) came to Mars in Nashville...

 

Damn! Do I know you? I worked that gig, although one of my co-workers mixed that day. Great clinic and concert. I spent half the afternoon scouring my contacts for a Boss SE-50 (1991 half rack f/x processor) for John Abercrombie, as his rack disappeared in transit. He settled for a newer boss pedal board, but thankfully he recovered the rack later..

 

In response to the question of ear monitors:

 

I mixed for the Wilkinsons this past summer. Most of the band are on ears, the Wilks are wireless (Shure PSM600's) and several band members are wired. (Including bass player, Joe Reed.)

 

Joe ran his bass into a rack, then direct to the system. No amp. Simple setup, no complaints about stage level of the bass, and less equipment to worry about. Not to mention the advantages on fly-dates. No chance of dealing with a substitute amp, if they couldn't get his preference. He swears by the inserts that look like a tiny pine cone. (3 layers of plastic that isolate your hearing. You may have seen them, sans central tube for the ear monitor driver, as earplugs. The monitor is a Shure E5 dual driver.

 

Some notes regarding the rest of the stage setup:

 

The lead guitar and steel guitar had amps onstage and used wedges. The key player had his leslie mic'd (although he, too, was on wired ears), and the drummer used headphones plus a wedge. (Kick only in the wedge. He's pretty deaf, too.) With all on ears, the stage volume would have been even lower.

 

In a rock band, you may still want your amp, or a sub, to add the low end you feel off the stage, but even so, the ear monitors help reduce the volume on stage while delivering great sound. It all hinges on the sound crew knowing how to mix for ears. This is paramount for good sound AND saving you hearing. (DON'T OVERDO THE LEVEL IN YOUR EARS! You can lose your hearing just as fast if not careful with ear monitors.)

[Jim T.]

OK, this may be a stupid question (surely not my last) but I was wondering if feedback squeal is a possibility with in ear monitoring if the sound guy screws up? I'm thinking no, because they're in your ear away from speacker cones and mics, etc. but.....?

 

This potential for pain has kept me from exploring further and I've only gotten the vague flippant response from sales people. What's the scoop? Thanks, Jim

[Wickerman]

Originally posted by Jim T.:

OK, this may be a stupid question (surely not my last) but I was wondering if feedback squeal is a possibility with in ear monitoring if the sound guy screws up? I'm thinking no, because they're in your ear away from speacker cones and mics, etc. but.....?

 

This potential for pain has kept me from exploring further and I've only gotten the vague flippant response from sales people. What's the scoop? Thanks, Jim

 

I've had this problem once... Since the mics were feeding back it came to my ear monitor. Ow. It was about the same as feedback coming out of a monitor. Since the ear monitor is in your ear it doesn't need to be as loud so the feedback wasn't as painful. It hasn't happened much to me but I haven't used them much...

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Jim T.:

OK, this may be a stupid question (surely not my last) but I was wondering if feedback squeal is a possibility with in ear monitoring if the sound guy screws up? I'm thinking no, because they're in your ear away from speacker cones and mics, etc. but.....?

 

This potential for pain has kept me from exploring further and I've only gotten the vague flippant response from sales people. What's the scoop? Thanks, Jim

 

It's far less likely, but the house system, someone on wedge while you're on ears, or taking an ear bud out too close to a mic can cause feedback that can get in your ear monitors. The only time I've personally heard feedback in ear monitors was due to odd circumstances.

 

On tour with Lila McCann, we played the Missouri State fair with Neil McCoy headlining. His band was all on ears, no amps onstage. Lila convinced the monitor mixer to let her feed the talkback from a South Park toy. The band heard (Cartman's voice "You are SO immature", over and over. They started cracking up, so Neil stopped the show to compose himself and explain.

 

He took an earbud out and deliberately put it to his mic so the audience could hear Cartman! His mic was still feeding the ear mon. mix, and it fed back the entire system, HOUSE too. Not too bad, thank goodness.

 

Another, related problem with both ears and wedges;

 

On the Wilkinson's tour, I ran into a monitor board with, "issues". Dust in the electronics would inhibit signals. I had decent levels set for a few mics, when a signal in one of these dirty circuits broke through. That sucked. The drummer, who was already quite deaf, got hit hard with level. Not feedback, but just as dangerous.

 

This aside, ear monitors are still far more resistant to feedback. Make sure the sound mixer knows what they're doing before trusting him with your hearing and an approx. $1000+ system.

[modulusman]

I was playing a typical corporate gig for a mortgage company this past weekend in a hotel convention hall. The drummer and I decided to try some E1's hardlined. I was very impressed with the sound though I did make the mistake of being a little too loud. What do you guys do about singing? When I had the in ears too low I would get that inside resonance of my voice in my head so that I couldn't hear my bass when I was singing and I wasn't really hearing my voice from the monitors, so I turned up to hear my bass and my voice well while being careful to keep the band down enough in my mix, and still, the next morning I had ringing in my ears. My brother, the drummer, is a sound engineer for a post pro company and he said that he usually sets up his cans by finding an acceptable level and then turning DOWN a notch and leaving it there. I should've done this, but of course he told me this after the gig.

 

The one depressing part is that I brought my Eden 2X12XLT with Crown power amp rig and I turned it off during soundcheck and NEVER TURNED IT BACK ON!!! I didn't need it!

I think next time I may experiment with turning my backline on and giving myself a little kick with my rig, I may not need so much feed in my ears then.

 

I have noticed most players on stage with IEM's have a stack of cabs behind them, is this a ruse? a flashback to the synonomous 'wall of amps' with a little cab off stage giving the real sound that we've all heard of?

 

Do these big big acts actually use their backline or is the backline going to be obsolete with the use of IEM's?

[bassaddik]

in-ears are kind of a way of life here in Vegas, ive never seenn so many being used- we use Ultimate Ears and they are molded to the individual which creates a sort of vaccum-

to me its bitther-sweet- i hear everything just fine, but i miss the ambience , so i just leave one in - i also have it so that i can control my bass mix and the band mix on the fly- i like them, but the lo end? i miss the lo end- a lot of guys a are getting " shaker pads"- a speaker driver type device that just shkes with the output tof a power amp- it gives the sensation of huge lo end without sound.. i still miss using a 8 x 10 rig nice and loud..

 

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: bassaddik ]

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by modulusman:

...The one depressing part is that I brought my Eden 2X12XLT with Crown power amp rig and I turned it off during soundcheck and NEVER TURNED IT BACK ON!!! I didn't need it!

I think next time I may experiment with turning my backline on and giving myself a little kick with my rig, I may not need so much feed in my ears then.

 

I have noticed most players on stage with IEM's have a stack of cabs behind them, is this a ruse? a flashback to the synonomous 'wall of amps' with a little cab off stage giving the real sound that we've all heard of?

 

Do these big big acts actually use their backline or is the backline going to be obsolete with the use of IEM's?

 

The answers:

 

First, many IEM users still use their amps, at lower volume. Steve Wilkinson used one ear, and one wedge. Vox only in the wedge, Vox + Aco in the ears. Some people use ears for vox only and wedges for full band mix.

 

I don't know if she's changed, but 6 years ago, Louise Mandrell had Front Fill wedges, Side Fill Wedges, BUTT fill wedges, and IEM for AUDIENCE mics only. Like her more famous sister, she did a variety show with plenty of cornball humor. She needed to hear the audience reaction even though she couldn't see them. (Stage lights.) We set 2 AKG C1000's onstage, facing the audience for the IEM.

 

There are many ways to incorporate IEM besides killing all stage amps, although that is a common use.

 

As to bands you've seen with onstage amps; They're probably monitoring the amp, at least in part. Otherwise, most acts like to clear the stage of clutter, as much as possible.

[spider]

From the feedback, looks like a sure thing.

 

I guess I'l do some shopping and price around.

 

Thanks guys.

Spiderman