Anyone modified their bass for Buzz Feiten tuning?

[musicman1ovation.net]

Has anybody here had their bass(es) modified to use the Buzz Feiten Tuning System?

 

Having read the premise behind it and the reviews, I'm VERY interested in getting at least one guitar modified. The modification is basically just very slightly moving the nut towards the first fret to a specific degree depending on the scale. The rest of it has to do with the way the instrument is tuned, and the Korg DT-7 electronic tuner makes that much easier than without. Washburn and some other more custom like makers are using the system on some or all of their new guitars/basses, but any instrument can be retrofit.

 

Anyway, it applies to bass, too. I think it is probably a bit more needed on guitar, because the guitar discrepancies show up mainly on chords at various neck positions. It's not that it isn't there for single lines, but that the intonation problem shows up most with harmony. So, bass being primarily a single line instrument (though not all the time), these discrepancies, though there, don't cause as much problem. And, hey... considering the fact that we've all been playing right along without the system, it is also true that the problem is minimal. However, for acoustic players and sometimes electric players, intonation problems are a pain for most all stringed/fretted instruments. The Buzz Feiten Tuning System addresses it scientifically, I believe, and does help.

 

So... anybody taken that leap?

[SlimT]

I've never heard of the tuning technique you are referring to.

 

What are the notes for each of the strings?

 

What are the advantages of that particular tuning?

[rumpelstiltskin.]

the tuning system is a physical modification made to your instrument. it improves the relative intonation of your instrument, for example, so that 24th fret note is exactly two octaves above the open note.

it's not about the pitch to which your strings are tuned, although i am not entirely certain that you can use any tuning you want and still be able to ensure precise intonation.

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally posted by SlimT:

I've never heard of the tuning technique you are referring to.

 

What are the notes for each of the strings?

 

What are the advantages of that particular tuning?

 

Check out http://www.buzzfeiten.com/ for extensive details, from the man himself.

[musicman1ovation.net]

Originally posted by synaes:

the tuning system is a physical modification made to your instrument. it improves the relative intonation of your instrument, for example, so that 24th fret note is exactly two octaves above the open note.

it's not about the pitch to which your strings are tuned, although i am not entirely certain that you can use any tuning you want and still be able to ensure precise intonation.

 

You are correct about it being a physical modification, but actually, the tuning is a tad different. It's not different as in different notes, but certain strings are tuned a cent or two sharp or flat. There's an actual prescribed formula. If you use a regular electronic tuner on a Buzz Feiten Tuning System modified instrument, the system will not work. It needs their prescribed tuning method, which, if done "manually" (by ear), can take a while. That's why Korg's DT-7 tuner, with its Buzz Feiten tuning mode, is such a help. It automatically makes it so that when the lights show you in tune, those give-or-take-a-couple-of-cents will be correct. And I found this interesting: there is one "formula" for the electric guitar, and another for acoustic guitar. When the elements of physical modification and tuning "algorithm" (as some call it) are combined, the result is a fretted instrument that sounds way the heck more in tune up and down the neck, no matter the chords or intervals. These minor differences are similar to a piano using "stretch" tuning instead of equal temperament, which was abandoned on pianos several hundred years back. You know, if a piano is tuned with perfect equal temperament, it actually sounds pretty crummy... especially certain chords.

 

I got this Buzz Feiten information from www.buzzfeiten.com and from questions asked directly. Theres are FAQ and articles areas that go into the tuning situation in some detail, although without actually spelling out the number of cents difference and on which strings, etc. They have different "rules of compensation" (as they call them) for electric guitars, steel string acoustics, an nylon string acoustics (classical). It's because of the different string tension. If you have an instrument modified by an "authorized retrofitter", they will provide you with something, some sort of literature I assume, on your instrument's tuning. You don't have to use the Korg DT-7, but I think it simplifies life. The formula depends on the instrument's scale. It all has to do with tempering that's the tuning "formula" that makes the tuning slightly different than equal perfect tuning. Buzz says in one of the site's articles, "the tempering is the more important part of the system." (This in response to someone who says they also have a special nut placement) "We want to correct the misconception that this is a nut placement formula. Thats part of it, but it is primarily a tempering system." It has to do with making thirds and sixths sound good in all positions and with any string combinations. I imagine this kind of thing will make some sense to some piano tuners. I saw someone selling guitars on eBay claiming that they had the Buzz Feiten Tuning System, but the guitars had not been physically modified (nor were they built that way originally). They were simply using the DT-7 in "Buzz Feiten mode". It may or may not make some improvement (don't know), but both the physical modification and the tempering system are needed for the whole system to work completely. This has been applied to several different instruments; guitars, bass, mandolin... any of them will work, with the need and benefit being more on some than others.

 

I think this sounds like it would be great for guitar, and when you read their "Player Quotes", you find out that Larry Carlon, Adrian Belew, Tom Anderson, Liona Boyd, Stu Hamm, Jimmy Haslip, Lyle Workman, and others are beyond sold. I know it also works for bass, but I don't know if that many have gone for it, since chords are not common, and the register, being so low, might possibly have a way of masking the problem to a degree in the first place. That's why I am very interested in finding out if anyone here has any bass experience with the Buzz Feiten Tuning System.

[Tom Capasso]

One of the previous threads on this topic had at least one player recommend it.

 

Click Here

 

Tom

[bassaddik]

i have both feitenized and standard basses- , my MTD 535 has the feiten system and is without a doubt the most in tune bass i have played- i still play my lakland ( standard) and others , but i can hear a difference when i play the MTD, just more prcise tuning. Its a pleasure-

the adjustment however, is not in the tuning, but in the INTONATION, which takes place when you set up the bridge saddles, here you need a special tuner with a BF setting , as in the Korg- but for tuning up before the gig, a regular old tuner works fine. this is only my opinion, of course

[SlimT]

Musicman1:

 

Thanks for bringing up the thread!

 

Bob:

 

Thanks for the link!

 

I have now concluded that I'm not crazy! (Well, that may be a bit hasty. )

 

Very interesting. I've been noticing subtle intonation differences depending on where I'm playing on my neck. Even when I've got the intonation set "correctly". I was assuming my ear was just untrained (I'm sure that's part of it).

 

The articles at the site are very interesting.

 

Thanks again!

[musicman1ovation.net]

Originally posted by bassaddik:

[QB]"...my MTD 535 has the feiten system and is without a doubt the most in tune bass i have played...the adjustment however, is not in the tuning, but in the INTONATION, which takes place when you set up the bridge saddles, here you need a special tuner with a BF setting, as in the Korg...for tuning up before the gig, a regular old tuner works fine." /QB]

 

If I am understanding your post correctly (and I'm probably using the wrong words to describe my grasp of it), you use the DT-7 to set up the bridge in the way I've tuned harmonics and octaves on a guitar/bass, but once that is set, you use a regular tuner (or the DT-7 in "regular" mode) to actually tune the instrument. Is that correct?

 

Thanks for the input. My interest comes from hearing drastic differences in pianos that have been tuned. These differences show up when something like a C or G triad sounds good, but an A triad is horrendous. I found out long ago that if you were to tune a piano with an electronic tuner to get "perfect", equal temperament, the results are way out there four certain keys and chords. When I've discovered piano tuners who do great stretch tuning, and whose ears are trained to compensate for fixing various intervals up and down the soundboard, I've always remained exclusive with that tuner and spread the word.

 

I'm certainly not the only one who uses an electronic tuner to tune a guitar or bass (a guitar/bass professionally set up with the string gauges used) to where each string appears right on the money, only to find certain chords and intervals up and down the necks that make me wince. Generally, one might try to find some compromise via manual tuning, but the end result would always be that certain chords/intervals at certain neck positions just do not work. That is why I've been so interested in hearing about those who use the system... particularly, in this forum, on bass. Thanks for the information!

[musicman1ovation.net]

Originally posted by SlimT:

Musicman1:

 

Thanks for bringing up the thread....I've been noticing subtle intonation differences depending on where I'm playing on my neck. Even when I've got the intonation set "correctly".

 

Fascinates the heck out of me, too. Not sure what the cost would be, but I'd love to have all my instruments (elec. & acoustic guitars and electric basses) modified. If the cost is prohibitive, I'll have to do some big time prioritizing for the moment. Even that way, though, I feel like recording, in particular, will be a far more satisfying experience.