Ben Posted June 27, 2001 Share Posted June 27, 2001 Warning: moderately long happy rant! The other bass forum I check regularly is Bunny Bass. One thing in evidence over there is strong enthusiasm for Michael Tobias and his various basses. I poked around on the web a bit and started to understand why Mr. Tobias has such a strong following. For example, somebody at Fernandes was paying close attention to the way Mr. Tobias attaches bolt-on necks when they designed my Gravity 4. It has a neck which is longer than the fretboard, with a diagonal end, and the body cut away in back so you can get to all 24 frets. I didn't know where this came from when I bought the Fernandes, I just knew it worked really well for my style of playing. So when I discovered the source of the design it was a big "aha!" for me. Anyway, a week or two ago one of the Bunny Bass regulars announced a "really good deal" and invited folks to contact him off-line for details. Turns out that MTD is discontinuing the "Beast" model, and the US distributor is selling off their remaining stock at a very good price. I should say right here that I am just a happy customer and bass player and have no connection with Mr. Tobias or MTD. I sort of have a rule of not buying a bass unless I have played it, but I made an exception to the rule and am glad I did. I finally broke down and got a five string, after playing 4 strings for 30+ years. My Ivory 5 string Beast with wenge fingerboard, made by Bohemia Musico in Prague, arrived yesterday and it's a very nice bass indeed. The workmanship is good, it plays very nicely, the Bartolini pickups sound great, the B string blooms a bit up around the 7th fret area but not too too much, and the asymmetrical neck is very cool. Only cheap touch was the volume knobs, cheap plastic push-ons, but I had some EMG setscrew style knobs sitting around and put them on. The bridge is nothing special, either, imitation Fender style, but perfectly serviceable. The tuners are no-name, but seem OK. I guess the best way to put it is if I end up playing 5 string most of the time instead of 4, the Beast is easily good enough to be my every-day main axe. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif (For further information on the deal contact Adrian at bassguy325@aol.com.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 I got the "Da Beast" today. $450.00 well spent! I can't believe the playability of this bass. The tone ..... truly awesome. This bass could easily be someone's main axe! I'm in agreement with the previous post. If I could change anything about the bass it would probably be the bridge. The knobs aren't the best either. One of a little heavier weight might yield good results. Wide string spacing on this 5 string. Lots of snap and pop when slapping and equally good tone when finger playing. I just wish that I had found out earlier. Maybe I could have gotten a fretless version. Two basses of this quality for under $1000.00 would have been a definite steal! ------------------Ebozzz! It is from Blues that all that may be called American music derives it's most distinctive characteristics. -James Weldon Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wise Man Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 The Fernades Gravity basses (along with any number of other Japanese and Korean basses, like the Ibanez Soundgear and the Bass Collection series) are copies of the Tune Bass Maniac, which predates the Tobias Killer B and the MTD bolt-on basses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted October 17, 2001 Author Share Posted October 17, 2001 Thank you, Mr. Wise Man, for setting me straight about the Fernandes, I got carried away in my enthusiasm for the works of Mr. Tobias. My daughter is now playing the Fernandes, it's a great bass. And from what little I know about the Tune bass, that's a fine thing to be a copy of. The Beast is a very nice bass and real bargain. I played mine (a 5 string) every day from the day I got it until about two weeks ago. Alas, with my small hands the 35" scale and wide neck led to tendonitis-type problems with my fret hand. (I just got a Fernandes Retrospective 5 with a narrow neck and 34" scale and my hand is much happier - I'll do a separate post on that.) But I'll keep the Beast as my backup bass. I'm hooked on 5 strings. Playing it every now and then will be a treat. One nice thing about the Beast is I fooled around with it, something I would never do with a high-priced MTD. I changed the imitation Gotoh tuners for the real thing. I lightly sanded down the back of the neck with 400 grit paper for a matte finish. I experimented with different strings until I found how much it likes Thomastick jazz flats. And, as noted elsewhere, I put a Sadowsky preamp in it. The one thing about my Beast that is less than perfect is a dead spot at B on the D string. This got really bad when I cranked hard on the truss rod to flatten the neck way down, since I like my action almost as low as I can get it. I backed off on the truss rod and set the action back up a bit and the dead spot got much better, but it's still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxofunk Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Just my $0.02The other less expensive Tobias basses are those offered by MusicYo. As a beginner, and looking for a non-Squier/Rogue/el-cheapo bass for under $300 I stumbled across MusicYo, then found some user reviews on HarmonyCentral etc... Willing to be the guinea pig, I got one and don't regret it. The Toby Deluxe series is a very nice bass for the buck. They also have the Toby Pro series, which is more in the $400-$600 range. Metal knobs, decent bridge and tuners, pickups by Bartolini, very versatile tone controls - only down side is that MusicYo doesn't offer any warranty. Keeping in mind - MusicYo is operated by Gibson, and they have rights to the Tobias name. If you prefer fruit that is not so far from the tree, MTD is Michael's own brand. A Beast at $450 is a good deal. - Matt W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm3 Posted October 30, 2001 Share Posted October 30, 2001 i sure would be interested in hearing how you all think the mtd beast stacks up against other basses in that price category (mtd kingston, used fender or g&l, carvin b4, etc.). would also be interested in hearing what would be considered basses at the next "level," e.g. how much above the $500 price point one would need to go to see a significant quality difference and what basses would be included. thanks for the opinions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Originally posted by tm3: i sure would be interested in hearing how you all think the mtd beast stacks up against other basses in that price category (mtd kingston, used fender or g&l, carvin b4, etc.). I'll chime in with my 2 cents. I've had 2 MTD Beasts, 1 Carvin B4, a Fender American Deluxe P and a number of G&Ls (L-2000, Climax, SB-1, LB-100). I've tried a Kingston in a store for a short time. I'd put the US-made basses (American Fenders, G&Ls, Carvins and Musicman) a step above the Beast in terms of "overall quality"/"fit and finish"/"solid feel". All of these have quality hardware, a high level of fit-and-finish quality, good electronics and a solid feel. The Beast has good materials (poplar body, wenge board, maple neck), decent hardware (bridge is OK, tuners are passable, knobs are cheap) and good quality but simple electronics (Bartolini single coils). The design and fit-and-finish were very good, just not quite as "solid" a feel to me as the previously listed basses. They did feel good and were lively and fun to play. I'd put the Kingston a step down from the Beast. Some of that is my preference on the pickup configuration (jazz layout vs. musicman). Fit and finish was good but the intangibles (for me) on my short tryout didn't excite me as much as the Beast. It's still a good bass. Tone-wise it's all up to personal preference. I like the G&L's best (particularly the L-2000), second is a toss-up between the Fender and the Beast, and it's been too long to decide between the Carvin and the Kingston. But they all sound good. They are different animals and it depends on what floats your personal boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakland_5 Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I was told that the MTD Beast has been replaced by the MTD Kingston. That's why you can get a good deal on the Beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Used2BeBen Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 For what it's worth, I've gone back to playing my Beast as my every day axe. I think the Beast was a good deal at the $800 level it originally sold at, and is a steal at less than $500. Haven't tried the Kingston so can't compare. In terms of design, it is a step beyond any Fender, no matter what country the Fender was made in. No disresepect to Fender, it's just that Mr. Tobias and other modern luthiers have gone beyond what Leo Fender originally conceived. Playing the MTD is different than playing either my '69 Precision or Fernandes Fender-clone 5, and, as much as I like those basses, I just keep going back to the MTD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm3 Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 thanks for the additional info. sounds like there are a lot of good choices in the $500 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Originally posted by Used2BeBen: In terms of design, it is a step beyond any Fender, no matter what country the Fender was made in. No disresepect to Fender, it's just that Mr. Tobias and other modern luthiers have gone beyond what Leo Fender originally conceived. Playing the MTD is different than playing either my '69 Precision or Fernandes Fender-clone 5, and, as much as I like those basses, I just keep going back to the MTD. I won't argue with you that parts of the design are superior to Fender (tilt-back headstock to avoid string retainers, zero fret, 24 frets) but the Beast is essentially a tweaked jazz bass. But the American Fenders have some superior features as well (graphite reinforced neck, more substantial bridge with both at bridge and through-body stringing, better tuners). Materials can be argued (poplar vs. alder/ash bodies, wenge vs. rosewood fingerboards) either way. I guess it depends on your preference - tweaked/improved classic design (Beast) or classic design with "best" current pieces (American Fenders). Appearance can play in too (although I try to ignore that). I just feel, and this is a personal thing, that the American Fenders (and G&Ls, Musicman, Carvins) feel more "solid" too me. It's an almost intangible thing. Some of it is hardware quality, some of it is indescribable/intuitive (and possibly unrepeatable/undetectable by others). That's not to say the Beasts are bad, and at the price they are a great deal. In fact since I'm selling off my G&Ls (a second time) because their necks are incompatible with my hands I'm going to be buying another Beast this afternoon if any are left. And it will be my main solid-body bass (I have an Epi JC coming as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm3 Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 >I just feel, and this is a personal thing, that the American Fenders (and G&Ls, Musicman, Carvins) feel more "solid" too me. It's an almost intangible thing. Some of it is hardware quality, some of it is indescribable/intuitive (and possibly unrepeatable/undetectable by others). That's not to say the Beasts are bad, and at the price they are a great deal.< i know what you mean. i noticed the same thing when shopping for a guitar -- the american strats just had a better "feel" to me than the mexican and korean instruments. it's all about personal preference, and is not a knock on anyone else's choice or opinion. someone put it well when they said that you should buy the instrument "that makes you smile every time you open the case." i'm glad you posted this description, since i can't audition a beast locally. it sounds like i might be better off trying to hunt up a nice used fender etc in the same price range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 Originally posted by tm3: [QBi'm glad you posted this description, since i can't audition a beast locally. it sounds like i might be better off trying to hunt up a nice used fender etc in the same price range.[/QB] Don't think I'm trying to put you off of the Beast. I ordered one yesterday to be my main solid-body bass. It will be the third one that I've owned and hopefully the last (in that I will just hold on to it). Sound-wise I think it's right in there with the various other basses I've talked about. When I got the first one I had I also had a Stingray I had just traded for. I kept the Beast and actually ordered a second while selling the 'Ray. Why? Because it sounded better, to me (I think it's a personal preference for having a neck pickup), and was "good enough". I felt the 'Ray was a little more "solid" (you know, intangibly) but I was happier with the Beast. It's too bad you can't try them out. I mentally group them with Japanese made Fenders - materials as good as US Fenders, more traditional hardware (no graphite, simpler bridges, etc.). And plenty of people prefer Japanese Fenders to American Fenders. So it really is all preference. I don't know which I'd choose between a Beast and a US Fender Jazz. The Fender Jazz doesn't work for me (the neck is too small) so I haven't really played any. This time I did choose the Beast over getting a US Fender P (which does fit me) based on the sound. I need the cut of jazz pickups in my band - a Precision would get lost. That should confuse things - I chose the Beast, which I feel is a little less "solid", over the American Fender P because of the sound. So it's a series of tradeoffs and since you can't trial the Beast yourself it gets tricky. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm3 Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 craigb since you have bought and sold multiple basses how have you found the resale of the beast compares to some of the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 Painful - the resale was painful. As good a deal as they are (at their blowout prices) and as well made as they are they just aren't well known. Now maybe that will change as time goes on (and the Kingston and Heir are making them visible to a lot more people). I had word that a couple were sold on ebay for more than the discontinuation price but I personally was not able to get that much out of the two I sold. If resale is a concern then go with the big names. Fenders and Stingrays seem to have the best resale right now out of the strata of basses I pay attention to. G&Ls do OK if you know where to buy them new so you don't overpay. Then again that goes for a lot of instruments - if you can find a good original deal it's not as painful on resale. But even the "good resale" instruments lose a bunch if you buy new and sell used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual.rayprodigy.net Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I got aKingston 5 in November 2000,and recently traded for a Beast 5.They are both excellent.They sound good,are easy to play,and are not heavy.They are among the best values on the market at the moment IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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