back2bassics Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 I have been "playing" bass off and on since I was 12 (6th grade). I play bass at my church. My music director hands me the scores with guitar tabulature above the measures. I seem to get the rhythm and feel of the song and am able to give it a nice bottom, but I lack the knowledge of writing lines (walking and otherwise) that also delivers any sort of sophistication. I haven't had much of any bass theory but I can read music. I sometimes use the (left hand) piano staff for a reference point of transition between chords. Ed's 1st edition of walking bass lines is already in my shopping cart. Along with this book, can anyone give me any other recommendations on references for writing bass lines utilizin chord transitions for reference? (I think this is why I have waited so long on picking up The Real Book.) Thanks BTW, this forum is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 I suspect Ed's book will be your best bet, along with reading the piano basslines. They will help you understand when to insert movement and when to hold the root. I read too poorly yet to do any of that. I play by ear and feel. My ideas come from listening to my favorite players. Like you, I play in church. I've impressed some of the other players by inserting very active lines (from my favorite rock-style heroes), and I've aggravated them, too. In the process, I've learned to restrain myself somewhat and still be (as one keyboard player called me) an "active" bassist. Use all the tools at your disposal and you'll be groovin in no time. Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 Thanks for picking up my book! There are lots of sources for learning more, but definitely get a good fake book! ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2bassics Posted June 14, 2001 Author Share Posted June 14, 2001 Thanks Ed! I appreciate your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zujo Posted June 15, 2001 Share Posted June 15, 2001 Dude: Piano basslines from Piano/vocal leadsheets hardly ever work on real bass. I've sat in several times at my local church and trust me, there is nothing like familiarizing yourself with the songs and the style. The book I've seen used most frequently is the "Maranatta". It's like a standards of gospel book and you can get it at any local christian bookstore. Learn the melodies to some of the most frequently played tunes. You can then build your bass lines taking the song as a whole as reference. I mean don't just think about a "bassline" for a chord progresion but pay attention to: 1)What the rest of the band is doing (specially the drummer) 2)What the melody "tells" you to do. This one is harder to explain but sometimes a melody will imply a certain type of approach to your bassline. Try it, Have fun! "Word to your mother" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted June 15, 2001 Share Posted June 15, 2001 I also started out playing bass in church. Probably the best advice is what's already been said, get familiar with the songs and the style. We all have absorbed a lot of information from the recordings we've listened to over the years; if, like me, you don't or haven't listened to a lot of Contemporary Christian (CC), it'll be a good place to start. Also, people familiar with the recording are only going to be completely happy if you play it "just like the record', no matter how creative or cool your original bass line is. (Another way to go is my approach, which is not to care how the records sound and never listen to them. I actually don't enjoy much CC except in the context of a worship service. But this approach, I warn you, requires true grit...) I generally start with roots and try to find interesting or pleasing ways to go from one to another; my bass lines actually evolve over a few playings. - Others here can give you much more and better advice, too, since they've played bass a lot longer than I have! Enjoy. - Chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lawson Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Playing in church is a rather unique playing situation for a number of reasons - firstly, you're not there to draw attention to yourself, or even to the rest of the band! ) Secondly, you potentially have to play all manner of styles on one gig - it's like cabaret. In my experience (more than 10 years of playing in church and on gospel recordings), you gotta know the cliches - very rarely are you asked to be 'authentic' to a particular style in church - you don't need to play Latin like Cachao, or Country like Roy Husky Jnr, but you will be asked to play a samba feel or a a bossa, or a mid tempo country feel or a rocky 16 feel or light funk or whatever. Getting down the basics of the various styles covered is step number one. Note wise, most of those styles can be covered quite effectively just playing root and fifth with the occasional 3rd and 7th depending on the style - Latin stuff doesn't 'need' anything more than root five at all. Once you're comfortable with that stuff, then it's time to move on - boredom isn't a reason to play more notes, it should be a motivation to get better, to focus on doing what you're already doing to perfection - remember, it's not about people thinking your a hot bassist... cheers Steve www.steve-lawson.co.uk StevieLand - go on, you know you want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Steve, I couldn't agree with you moreon every point; and it won't surprise you to hear that the longer I play the bass, the more I see opprtunities to leave notes out that I might have played in the past. The "not drawing attention to oneself" in church is one aspect I think really draws me to playing bass there. I used to play guitar in the worship band and look for ways to enhance the song discreetly, but still felt people were coming up to me too often with positive remarks about the licks, making me feel too visible. I still get positive feedback from generous folks, but it's different: "the bass line adds so much; hard to say how, but you'd miss it if it wasn't there..." You can be sure that I know it's just those notes occupying that part of the spectrum that make the difference and not my abilities, since I'm still just a hack bass player... Rock the flock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 I like that "Rock the Flock" phrase !! I have been doing this a long time, and I agree that the bass player is the least recognized (much like in other music). And I agree that tha's a good thing because we're not doing this for the glory (that's for Him). Just the same, I think it's OK that the musicians recognize each other's talents, because we know where the gifts come from. Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAP Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 I have to agree with Steve too, know your chord tones (root, third, fifth, and seventh) and passing tones also (note just below/above the root of the next chord). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lawson Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Originally posted by Tom Capasso: I have been doing this a long time, and I agree that the bass player is the least recognized (much like in other music). And I agree that tha's a good thing because we're not doing this for the glory (that's for Him). Just the same, I think it's OK that the musicians recognize each other's talents, because we know where the gifts come from. I think there's a balance - it's easy for the quest to work with the music and not stand out to tip over into false humility. Obviously, church music is not meant to be one long bass solo, but quality playing doesn't have to be indulgent. And on the theme of gifting, I don't think it's arrogant to enjoy it when someone likes what you do - gifting or not, you still put in the practice, still worked on your chops, your understanding of music, still gave up other things in order to spend time playing music. So if someone likes what you do, take it as the compliment that it is. Thank God that you've had the opportunities you have, but don't do a disservice to the person who's trying to bless you by saying how much they enjoyed your playing. I think it's obvious when a musician is too full of themself to really do justice to the music, same as it is in many settings - if you go to see a singer-songwriter, the gig can be spoilt by the ego of the musos. On the flip side, Jaco played squillions of notes with Joni Mitcell, but not one sounds out of place to me... ) Shalom Steve www.steve-lawson.co.uk StevieLand - go on, you know you want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Thanks, Steve. You also are completely right on. There is a line for me; on the one hand, positive feedback/compliments let me know I'm accomplishing what I want to as far enhancing the music and blessing the congregation go; on the other hand, it has been easy for me to get prideful over my technical ability, especially re: the guitar. Playing bass takes that away from me since the best bass line is not always the best line for the song. So I get to be supportive, be engaged with the music (not strumming on autopilot!), and make a contribution without that problem. Thanks to everyone for your comments. Anybody else want to weigh in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zujo Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Originally posted by Steve Lawson: Playing in church is a rather unique playing situation for a number of reasons<<>> BUT...Don't let this be a determining factor when builiding GOOD original basslines. CC music has really changed and a lot of times having talent and showing it does not necessarily constitute "Drawing attention to your self" Do apply comon sense and never "underplay" just because you are in church. Think about projecting your best energy and grove possible without forgeting that you are in a BAND. "Word to your mother" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lawson Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Originally posted by zujo: [bUT...Don't let this be a determining factor when builiding GOOD original basslines. CC music has really changed and a lot of times having talent and showing it does not necessarily constitute "Drawing attention to your self" Do apply comon sense and never "underplay" just because you are in church. Think about projecting your best energy and grove possible without forgeting that you are in a BAND. Zujo, I think the key here is intention - As far as I can see, church is not the place to play licks designed to impress other musicians, or to get chicks to dig you... ) That doesn't mean that you can't play 'upfront' stuff, but it does mean that your intention in all you play is different to a pub/club gig. I recently saw a Fred Hammond video, on which the bass player was playing the funkiest coolest lines I've heard in years without sounding out of place. In fact, the vocal hystrionics in the second half of the video were far more off putting! (Why on earth does Fred do mind-blowing inspirational funk for half an hour and then a whole string of over-blown 80s soul-ballads????) The bassist was flash but not playing out of frustration at not getting enough solos... ...and I would suggest that in such a situation, underplaying is better than overplaying. In fact, in any situation I'd say that was a good philosophy. it's also better to be asked to turn up than turn down, play more than play less, talk more than talk less... cheers steve www.steve-lawson.co.uk StevieLand - go on, you know you want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2bassics Posted June 20, 2001 Author Share Posted June 20, 2001 This has been an AWESOME string...very helpful. I appreciate everyone's input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Steve Lawson, Where can I get a Fred Hammond video? On his website? Fred'd the bomb; I put on "Your Steps Are Ordered" when I need to be encouraged and also cry a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lawson Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Sorry, I've no idea where to get the Vid - I borrowed it from a student of mine.. I think you can get it in Christian Bookshops in the UK, but not sure in the US... blessings Steve www.steve-lawson.co.uk StevieLand - go on, you know you want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 back2bassics - A couple of thoughts 1. For hymns, stick to the bass (voice) part as written. Don't try to change it. 2. For worship services, hitting the root on beat 1 (or any beat where the chord changes) should suffice. Throw in a few thirds, fifths, and an occasional sixth for variety before the next downbeat. 3. I'm not clear as to how much you know about theory. If I asked you to play the third of a G chord, would you know what note that is? If so, please pardon me for asking, but if not, you should dedicate some time to learning these fundamentals. 4. If you're playing popular gospel songs and want some suggestions, please list of few of the ones that we might know. Alternatively, list some chords along with tempo and meter information, and we may be able to contribute some ideas. 5. Keep it clean, simple, and never miss a downbeat, and your congregation will be very happy with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Never play a flatted fifth interval (even though it is part of a dom7th, and its notes can contribute to voice leading) -- the tritone is Satan's exclusive turf. This message has been edited by greenboy on 06-20-2001 at 11:00 PM . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted June 23, 2001 Share Posted June 23, 2001 Oh, come on, we don't believe that anymore! We've been playing tritones for MONTHS now...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted June 23, 2001 Share Posted June 23, 2001 Then you'll be getting a visit from the cloven man. He usually assumes the form of a expensively-suited man carrying a briefcase. And his letterhead indicates he is senior partner of the law firm. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Hmm, isn't there one of those evil tri-tones lurking amidst the seemingly pastoral realms of the major scale? ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 This represents the duality of the lower world. Avoiding the temptation to actually use the tritone notes in sucession has the reward of not permanently visiting a still lower world. Of course, as bass players it is possible we like the lower worlds. <-- greenboy ---<<<< follow the decree . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 "Hmm, isn't there one of those evil tri-tones lurking amidst the seemingly pastoral realms of the major scale?" Yes, in fact, there is. This is why God made the pentatonic scale.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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