dansouth Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 I saw Peter Gabriel in Philadelphia several years ago, and the low end was so muffled that I did not hear a single note that Tony Levin played all night. It was as though his amp was tucked away in a remote warehouse full of cotton. Talk about a disappointment!!!!! Anyone else have bad concert sound experiences? What causes this, and how can it be prevented? Should criminal charges be levied against inept sound men for screwing up a perfectly good (and expensive) concert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R. Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: Anyone else have bad concert sound experiences? What causes this, and how can it be prevented? Should criminal charges be levied against inept sound men for screwing up a perfectly good (and expensive) concert? That would be the sound man/woman. Some think that adding low end to the bass will bring it out - wrong. Just like mixing a recording, it's better to scoop out some rumble to get definition. When playing a big venue like that, stage volume is not an issue compared to a club where the booming bass (OK, usually the guitar) can out-compete the house system. I would bet that Levin has his sound together and a half-deaf monkey was behind the board putting in his hours without knowing how important the bass is to Gabriel's music. Yes, you should get some sort of refund. I do it at movie theatres, if the sound is crappy, I complain. Not because I am trying to scam extra tix, but the sound is a very important part of a modern movie and if they do not warn the audionce that their system only plays back in mono or whatever, they are evil and should have their toenails plucked off by rabid baboons. -David R. -David R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknbokker Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 Drumsdrumsdrums...That's all I here. Yes, it IS the soundman/woman. Not that they don't know what they're doing, but I think that the locations work against them in many cases. I'm sure that if the person running sound had a chance to work the venue more than once or twice, they might be able to adjust things a bit better. Plus, I've seen concerts at places that really shouldn't be considered for musical presentation Jeez, I've probobly seen 40-50 concerts at the Spectrum in Philly, and the only band to make the sound even passable was Pink Floyd, and they were hauling an incredibly large and complicated system with them, from what I understand. But the drum thing? I don't know. Why is it that the loudest instrument on stage gets the most mics? Oy vey!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/mad.gif Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 The best sounding shows I've seen have always been in open air, or theatres. Hockey rinks(which make up about 2/3 of the shows I've seen) always sound like crap to me. Boomy undefined low end for sure. It would be hard for me to believe that major label artists would have inferior live engineers, but maybe some do. Your subs may vary. KHAN So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clockwirk Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 I once saw Fishbone in a college gymnasium. Good.....................! Lord.....................! I was hearing the sound come from about six different places and they all sounded like crap. ~clockwirk~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 Certainly a big part of the problem is that they put on shows in difficult facilities- hocky rinks, rodeo arenas, gymnasiums, etc., and the cost of hauling a full concert rig around means that a lot of bands are using a mix of locally rented gear and their own, with a mix of their own crew and locals. This is especially true for smaller name acts. But as long as we're ragging on the sound crews, where do they get the godawful music they play through the PA before the show starts? Its seems like they're all deathmetal heads, with no attempt to match the "warmup" music to the act that we all paid to see. I understand the idea of high energy music to get the audience warmed up, but I don't understand why the headline acts don't insist on something more suited to the show they're going to be putting on. That's my pet peeve of the week ;-) BTW, Martin, Medeski & Wood are playing here (Albuquerque) on Sunday in an old movie/vaudville theater - I'll report back on how it sounds. Stay low, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 Oh boy, don't get me started on this one!!!! The problem I hear most of the time is the sound person's seemingly unwavering view of the kick-drum-as-center-of-the-universe! This appears to be a shared delusion by most people in this profession as the majority of larger shows I've been to all suffer from this. The only other thing I hear is the unitelligible screaming of the lead singer. Oh yeah, and the guitar... You can blame some of this on the venues, big arenas, gyms, etc are not the best place to mix high volume sound, but most major acts travel with their own FOH (front of house) and monitor engineers, so you'd like to think they may actually have a sense of what MUSIC is supposed to sound like. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Worthington Posted April 28, 2001 Share Posted April 28, 2001 I think there are several factors here: I totally agree with Ed, and have chimed in on this before: Soundmen, being powermad gearheads, who are all about the equipment, spend an inordinate focus on "where the power is," which is lowest of the low end. The kick drum sound (which by now sounds nothing at all like an actual bass drum) is too loud in the mix, AND the system's bottom end is so beefed up that any instrument down there, primarily bass guitar, is given this extra low end, which just makes it even harder to hear clearly. The acoustics in most venues are horrendous, but also extremely varied depending on where you are. In a typical hockey arena, there's a huge difference being on the floor, versus an upper level. Gabriel has always had good live sound, so the problem is probably only the sound engineer in that they are sucked into the whole need to be powerfully loud. (After all, if you can't FEEL the bass at a rock concert, then the rock star must be some kind of pussy, right?) So, by making it really loud, there's so much sound bouncing around (getting reflected in some spots, trapped in others) that it can only sound good in the sweet spot--where the board is. And of course, you're not sitting there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy_dup1 Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 I went to a Stevie Winwood concert. Great drum sound (Russ Kunkel on drums)....but you couldn't hear the organ!!!! You also couldn't a hear a note played or song by the rhythm guitarist. There's $1000 a week salary wasted! And it's not the venue, the next week I went back to see Sting and the sound was awesome. ------------------ http://www.jps.net/jeremy/basspage.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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