Is Music School Necessary?

[Ed Friedland]

Apart from this being a topic worth discussing, I'm currently finishing up a piece on going to music school for BP. I'd like to hear from everyone, but especially the members that are working professionals that have gone to music school, or those that wish they had.

How did music school help you in your goal to become a pro player? Was it necessary to go through school to get the skills you use? What type of school did you go to (conservatory, music dept at a university, private 4 year like Berklee, BIT? Player's School? etc..) would you have chosen another type of school looking back?

 

I'd like to let this run, but I may want to include some quotes in the article, you will be credited....but not compensated (sorry!)

 

 

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[fet]

A few words from a sporadically performing semi-pro: Because I play only pick-style guitar, my choice of college-level music programs in my area is highly limited. I suspect that the same might be the case with those bass players who wish to play only electric bass.

 

Not that there is anything wrong with classical guitar or upright bass, but one would think that in the 21st century, more college music programs would allow their students to perform/major on instruments that are not part of the European classical music tradition. Certainly on my instrument, or on electric bass, one can play, and play well, much classical repertoire; for my own enjoyment I'm working through a few of the J.S. Bach unaccompanied violin pieces right now.

 

I concede that there may be factors I don't understand in this equation...

[bspangleyahoo.com]

I went through a music ed program at a state U with string bass as my major instrument. I'm a long time semi-pro who plays music to support my public-school teaching habit. I have found that my formal training has been invaluable in being able to play in almost any musical situation with little or no practice or rehearsal. Many of the people who play electric guitar or electric bass assume that because a college doesn't offer instruction on their specific instrument that the whole program is irrevelent. The classes which have probably done the most for me are

freshman and sophomore theory (including ear training and sight screaming), analysis class (boy do you learn how to spell chords here) and orchestration, where I learned about how musical ensembles function musically. Even though most of my gigs involve jazz, none of my formal training was jazz based. It was, as Jeff Berlin would say, based on generic music principles. There are geniuses who don't need training and there are those who are dedicated enough to consistantly instruct themselves. For most people, some formal instruction would improve they way they play AND, more importantly, improve the way their group or band or combo sounds.

[fet]

bspangle, I agree with all you say. I just want to stay with my guitar pick, which has served me for 35+ years... why won't they let me use my plectrum at the university? I would submit that generic music principles can be taught/learned on my instrument, and I am proud of my level of technique. Perhaps because the steel-string guitar is an American instrument, it is not worthy...?

[rumpelstiltskin.]

i will agree that having taken even only one college-level basic theory course has positively affected my ability to play (at least roots and simple melodies) in an ensemble with little or no rehearsal.

 

of course, now every time i touch my instrument, i tend to think in terms of scales and numbers instead of just playing, so it hasn't been 100% great for my playing. but it makes life considerable easier when playing by the seat of my pants.

[Jeff Addicott]

Before music school, things were pretty bleak for me. I was a thoroughly half-assed Flea clone who couldn't groove his way out of a paper bag. I couldn't find anyone decent to jam with, and even the lamest wannabe top 40 cover bands were giving me the cold shoulder. I decided to take some lessons at the college conservatory and try and get in their two-year Jazz program. It turned out to be a really great move for me. (I was horribly under-prepared, but somehow I squeaked in on the waiting list.)

 

Over the next two years, I got a good thorough workout with intensive (2 hrs / week) private lessons, combo classes, Classical theory, Jazz theory, Jazz history, arranging, piano and big band. I also got to play on almost all of the graduating recitals (in addition to putting on my own).

 

In addition to all that course work, I found some very important mentors, outside the cirriculum. In particular, the percussion guy was a superb teacher. He was an absolute fanatic about time and rhythm, and I learned a lot about how to approach my instrument and music in general.

 

After graduation, my gig-worthiness was like night and day. I could do jazz casuals. I could read and write charts. I had some experience. I still had a lot of dues to pay, but at least I was finally "in the door". It still took a couple of years to really get established at a full-time professional level.

 

What music school really did for me was to give some much-needed traction for my talent and drive. I can see how one might get what I got without school: by being in a musical family, by being in a serious band with your high school buddies, by getting to hang around some working cats, etc... None of those things happened for me, so going to school was what it took to gain some momentum.

 

Formal training also helped me get the versatility I need to be a full-time freelance player. In this small-town scene where I work, no one band or musical genre can pay all the bills. By playing Jazz, R&B and Country on weeknights and top 40 and Funk on the weekends, I can actually (almost) make ends meet!

 

It's hard to say where I would have wound up had I not gone to school. I might be playing in a band for fun, but I highly doubt I'd be making a living, playing.

 

If I could do it all over, I wouldn't hesitate for a second. If I didn't have some pressing family matters to attend to (another story), I MIGHT have transferred into the 4-year university program, or tried out for a more prestigious big city school. A few more years of maximum ass-kicking might have bumped me up to a higher echelon. Who knows? I guess there's nothing to say I can't still do it...

 

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Jeff Addicott

http://www.jeffnet.org/~addicott/bass.html

 

This message has been edited by Jeff Addicott on 03-20-2001 at 07:51 PM

[jeremy_dup1]

First of all, I would like to say that the people who bad mouth a college education do not have one. I have never ever heard anyone say that they were sorry they went to college. Of course we all know of gifted players who began their careers in their teens and therefore did not go to college or even possibly finish high school, but they are not really the issue here.

 

I went to UC Berkeley and played the clarinet in the music department while gigging on electric bass. The department is 100% classical, not even any jazz. But music theory really hasn't changed since Bach, the chords are just named differently in jazz than in classical. I learned enormous amounts in all my classes, ear training, harmony, counterpoint, analysis, orchestra, conducting, piano, major instrument, voice. I can read in all clefs. I can write an arrangement away from an instrument. I can read music without an instrument and know what it will sound like. I doubt that I could do any of that without my education.

In addition I was in one of finest universities in the world and hung out with many other people similar to myself, including my wife who I met in a class and several people with I am still friends.

The typical non-schooled player has no idea of what the demands of a music program are. I have helped many high schoolers prepare for college but they are still very surprised when they get there.

Before I went to school, I was a generic rock player. Now I can and do play gigs in a large variety of styles with no rehearsals. This might have happened without school, but it wouldn't have happened as quickly.

 

 

 

 

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http://www.jps.net/jeremy/basspage.html

[fet]

Jeremy, sounds like the music department was a great experience. But wouldn't it have been better if your bass had been in your hands all those hours you were practicing clarinet? (Unless you play clarinet now.)

 

No way would I badmouth a college music education. My point is, why does most of academia reject the electric bass, or the pick-style guitar?

 

I haven't heard a good answer yet. This question trips my trigger; I believe that I play a serious, legitimate instrument!

[Eric Worthington]

I did not have any formal training, but I wish I had.

 

The one thing that has helped me the most as a musician--and therefore, as a bass player--was to learn to play the piano. It was all self-taught, self-discovery. It was great to eventually learn all I did about chord construction, scales, inversions, and the relative pitch of everything. Everything is laid out in front of you on a keyboard, and it's all linear, unlike most other instruments. So you can SEE how everything relates.

 

Learning piano and other instruments is invaluable understanding and perspective for when you pick the bass back up; it helps you understand what everyone else is doing, and reminds you of what your role is in the bigger ensemble.

 

But it all took me forever. I wish I had had at least a couple of years of formal education, and THEN gone off and filled in the rest, in my own manner and pace, befitting my taste and style.

 

I understand the argument against too much formal training, for fear of losing one's individuality and liveliness. But I've been playing with 20-year veteran guitarists who can play incredible solos, but don't really know a damn thing about music, which makes it really difficult sometimes, and painstakingly slow, to work out chord structures. Heaven forbid you want to change the key! They just don't KNOW what they're doing.

 

Some people fear that if they have to THINK too muck, they won't play with enough feeling. I always felt you can't know too much about music; the more you KNOW what you're doing, the better. The whole idea, in performance, is to do all your thinking in advance--this includes rehearsal, as well as thinking ahead to the next verse, the next measure, even the next note, before you hit it. When you hit it, you hit it with all the feeling you have. The more you know, in advance, about music, the less you have to think about it when playing, and therefore, the more instinctive your playing can be.

[BassLand]

Ed and other contributors,

 

I am a BIT person (first one from what I see here :-D) I could already play fairly well before I went to Musicians Institute but had given up reading since 4th grade piano. I think I learned as much from other students as from the curriculum(sp). I have to thank Carl Shroeder getting me back into reading. He was (and still is) an excellent teacher. I got a gig at NAMM through an audition at the school and ended up meeting and working for Mike Tobias for almost 10 years. If for nothing else other than being in the right place at the right time, I have music school as a positive experience. I read well now and find that the better I read, the better I can adlib parts using the written music as a guide.

 

When I enrolled in MI, I was looking for exactly what MI had to offer. I was not looking for a degree or 4 years of other manditory college classes in subjects not related to what I really wanted to study... Music. I would not do anything different today regarding my choices nor could I have wished for a better outcome as a result of those choices.

 

BassLand

http://bassland.net

[bspangleyahoo.com]

FET,

As long as you have some facility on your instrument, what you learn about music is applicable to that instrument. In other words, somebody studying clarinet for his or her degree while jammming and gigging on the electric bass doesn't interfer with his or her long term development as a bassist.

 

While I was in school, a great jazz sax man (Bunky Green), gave a "master" class to the students there who were interested in learning about improv. What I got out of that couple of hours was stuff that I worked on for many years. It did not matter that he was a sax man and that I was an aspiring bassist. What he presented was applicable to piano, sax, flute, french horn, clarinet, guitar with or without a pick, bass, trumpet, kazoo or harmonica. If you have the money, why don't you gamble on a one week intensive course at Jeff Berlin's school. I'll bet you would walk away with enough to study and think about for decades. After you've worked for awhile with his material, take some more theory at a college. The theory can be either classically based or jazz based. Apply what what you learn to your instrument and to whatever ensembles you become involved with. I know I'd like the chance to dig into JB's brain for a little while.

 

If there is a classical guitar instructor near you, why not learn some finger pickin' nylon string stuff? There are gigs out there for people who can play classical, pop and/or jazz guitar as a solo or duo instrument!!!

[Ed Friedland]

Thanks for all your comments (feel free to continue!) I'm getting some good stuff to use, if I do choose to quote anyone, I'll contact you personally and get a short bio about who you are and what you do.

 

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[BenLoy]

I studied at NYU, and music school can be an invaluable tool, most certainly. It helps one learn the essential skills that one must have to be a professional musician. I've certainly met people who are incredibly well-rounded musicians whom have never gone to school and have learned everything on their own, but they are usually incredibly gifted and disciplined when it comes to their craft (and I mean ALL aspects, reading, playing in all styles, playing so well that one can break a string in the middle of a solo and keep playing so well that no one notices). That level of discipline is rare amongst high-school age kids...myself included.

 

That being said, probably the biggest disservice that music scool does for young musicians is the strange sort of negative exclusionary attitude that goes on at music school (and is seemingly passively encouraged), namely the "If you're not a hardcore bebop guy you SUCK!" mentality. Don't get me wrong: Bebop is great, bebop is wonderful. Learning bebop is one of the most challenging ways to learn about harmony and improvising at dizzying tempos. But many kids in music school study ONLY bebop as an end in itself, not assessing what kind of work will be available to them when they graduate.

 

I've heard some incredibly negative things said in school about certain students (like me) simply because they were overheard practicing (GASP) triadic soloing over blues progressions, funk lines, playing SLOWLY to develop a good sound, etc.

 

A typical hardcore bebop bass student spends all his time studying out of the Charlie Parker omnibook, strive to play it as fast as possible (is it in tune? If the notes go by fast enough, who cares?) He can play "Donna Lee" in all twelve keys and can quote "Giant Steps" in every solo he plays. All his classmates are in awe of him. "He's amazing!" the freshmen exclaim ad nauseum. Then he graduates, gets up on the bandstand at his first professional gig with his brand new Ken Smith 7 string, and suddenly has to play the bassline to "Stormy Monday", a 12/8 blues in G, and what does he do? He slides up the neck and plays blistering fills every time the guitarist stops playing, he plays "hip" altered b5 progressions to a turnaround that the keyboardist isn't playing, and when he's not doing that he's SLAPPING the bassline. The guitarist hates him because he's taking up too much space, the keyboardist hates him because every chord he plays sounds wrong thanks to this punk kid who's playing all these weird notes that aren't resolving, and the drummer hates him because he's not GROOVING!!! When he finally gets a chance to solo he sprays out just about every single Bird lick he can think of while the keyboardist wonders whether he should risk the bandleader's wrath by playing some altered changes just to make this kid's solo sound somewhat in context...etc...etc...etc...

 

You might think I'm making this up, but actually I've seen it happen at rock jam sessions, and I'm always amazed. The bebop fanatic, awash in his own genius, never notices the exasperated looks the other band members give each other (cause he's blissfully got his eyes closed) and then wonders why they only let him play one song when he comes by to sit in the next week. This kid was way better than me technically. He could've DESTROYED me at playing bebop. But Charlie Parker could also, and he could've sat in a rock jam session and made it sound like bebop saxophone had always been a part of it.

 

Yow, I've gone on too long. Sorry <:-)

[BenLoy]

Wow, got long and negative in that post, didn't I? Let me just amend that I got so passionate becuase to me there's nothing more wonderful that playing with or listening to a group of musicians who are listening and reacting to each other with sublime taste and a sense of group time, and when that gets disrupted it's just such a drag. I try not to get upset because I've been in that position where you're the young guy in a situation way above your head and you're not making it, sounding bad, and you can feel the other musicians eyes rolling behind you. But when one is arrogant enough to think that they're above practicing the basics because they want to be the next Jaco then they're missing the point...

 

Anyway, I've said too much. Don't hate me for my wordiness...

[Ed Friedland]

Ben,

Don't worry, we don't hate ya! Hey, I didn't know you were out there watching that night I sat in at the rock jam, I was AWESOME wasn't I? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Just kidding.

 

Yeah, well, we've all seen this happen, especially me having taught at Berklee. I don't know how much the school itself is to blaim for these situations. Personally, I always try to make a point of balancing out my student's perspectives. I'm all about getting gigs and keeping them (or at least not getting fired because of inappropriate playing). I agree with a lot of what you have to say, I just think that many of these players would do the same thingno matter where they learned how to play. Ever meet a self taught rock guitarist that played loud, obnoxious and oblivious to their surroundings?......Nah, me neither I was just checking. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Anyway, it's true that music schools could do more to prepare their students for the real world, I think Berklee probably does more than others, but then again, some feel that music school is not about preparing for that. It's a time to delve into the art, science and creativity of music.

I think before any bass player is allowed to graduate from a music school, they should be made to play bass with a country band in front of a jury. How about that?

 

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[BenLoy]

Hee-hee...only if the members of the jury get drunk and stagger up to the stage and ask him loudly why he's not playing any Sabbath tunes. :-)

[ricknbokker]

I think that if you have the means, going to a music school would be the way to go, if being a professional musician is your goal. By being professional I mean having all of the tools required to fulfill any requirement neccessary for the job which you are applying. Do I have to go to music school to be a successful solo recording artist? No. How about being a successful cover player doing twenty gigs a month through an agent, with full benefits and good pay? Again, the answer is no. How about if I want to play in a professional orchestral situation, reading music and the directions of the conductor? Then the answer is yes. It seems to me that not defining the word "professional" is the key to the problem of your question. Hope this helps! [ricknbokker@hotmail.com]

[Ed Friedland]

I understand your point. The term professional can be interpreted many ways. I think all of the situations you described can be considered professional, it's largely a matter of how you approach them. Even if you don't need an education to be a successful recording artist or cover player, it can probably be agreed that it won't HURT if you do.

 

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[jeremy_dup1]

fet said, why isn't bass considered a legitimate instrument?

And it's true, there are probably only 2 or 3 colleges in the whole country where you could major in electric bass andeven there you would be encouraged to learn how to play a "real bass" (upright). When my wife and I went to college in the late sixties-early seventies the same was true for guitar, and I don't mean electric guitar, I mean classical guitar. I believe it was Michael Lorimer's urging that finally got UC Berkeley to accept classical guitar as a real instrument.

But you know, I'm not really worried about that. I accept the fact that Universities are not 'up to date". Universities are not trade schools and what is accepted as legimate courses of study changes slowly over the years. I'm actually glad that I didn't have electric bass classes telling me how it is done. I used the musical knowledge I learned and applied it to the way I wanted to play the bass.

I don't feel that I wasted time playing the clarinet even though I don't play anymore, I got an insight into melody and tone that I would never have found on the bass, and I got to play in an orchestra which is unlikely to ever happen on Fender.

 

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http://www.jps.net/jeremy/basspage.html

[Ed Friedland]

Jeremy,

You're in good company. I went to the High School of Music and Art with Marcus Miller. We played together in orchestra, I was in the bass section, he was 2nd clarinet!

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[xtian_dup1]

Hey Ed,

In High School band I played bass and drums (depending on the band), and I picked up the ability to read music REALLY easily.

 

Unfortunately, after I left school I went into the computer industry (16 hour workdays for the last 15 years) and never pursued any further music education. Now I am trying to get back into learning music, and I have lost everything that I learned in school.

 

I am a very dextrous bass player with big strong hands and 18 years of experience playing everything from heavy metal to fusion to ambient to experimental art music. And I feel like I have hit a wall in my growth as a player. I feel that to get to the other side of that wall, I need to learn to read music and I need to learn music theory.

 

It is a tool that is missing from my toolchest. A hammer may not be the right tool for every situation, but have you ever met a fine carpenter who didn't own one?

 

So now I am trying to learn in my ... *ahem* ... "copious" spare time.

 

Seems very backwards to me!

- Christian

Budapest, Hungary

[Ed Friedland]

Christian,

Well the good news is you probably haven't lost as much as you think! It does come back once you start exercising the brain a little. Just start reading stuff, that's all. Start with easy things to build confidence. For theory, there are plenty of good books out there, Fingerboard Harmony by Gary Willis for example. You'll be amazed how easy it is to fit the theoretical concepts to what you already know on an instinctual level. learning new things will be fun and easy, just get started!

 

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www.edfriedland.com