Music versus equipment

[bootyquake]

I can't help but notice that in these forums (especially on the guitar side) there's a ton of talk about equipment, and relatively little about the process of making music. Adam Nitti once said that if instrumentalists spent half of the money they reserve for new equipment and toys on lessons and educational materials, the talent pool would be much deeper today.

 

I'm very fortunate to finally have most of the tone tools I need. (Sure I'd love a 1820's Czech flatback upright, a vintage Baby Bass, and all David Eden equipment) By and large any further equipment purchases are superfluous. My biggest obsatcles are musical in nature.

 

If you had all the equipment you needed, what would you work on? What would be your biggest challenge musically?

 

As for myself, I'm currently trying to perfect my latin grooves, understand how to apply better chord substitution, such as Coltrane subs, and generally trying to memorize all sorts of songs to expand my repertoire. My biggest challenge is to keep my concentration in the moment--when I get too theoretical, I tend to mess up, skip changes, and lose my place.

[RobT]

I agree with you there on the concentration on the *gear* side of the equation. Don't get me wrong ... I think that everyone should have the right gear to create *their* sound. Get the best stuff you can afford. Sure I'd like to be able to afford some of the boutique basses and equipment. Perhaps even a German Upright or electric upright too.

 

I find the music challenges invigorating enough. Becoming a better player, sight reader, coming up with more imaginative lines, walking the fine line between being interesting and contributing to the musical composition as a whole rather than being too busy and just musically masturbating. I cut my teeth on funk and rock. Nowadays I find myself working more on jazz, composition, latin/afro-cuban/african/reggae grooves and being musically literate and sensitive. Maybe even passing some of what I know on to my kids. The whole less is more thing. I'm never going to be Stanley Clarke, Jaco Pastorius, Victor Wooten, Gary Willis,____ insert name__here____. There is/was one already. I concentrate more on being the best Rob Thompson as I can be.

 

As a bass teacher told me a few years ago. "You can have all the gear money can buy but what makes you a player is what's in your heart, what in your head and how that gets out to your hands".

 

 

RobT

 

"Music is not an end to itself but a journey"

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

I actually have all the gear I need to keep me content for a long time.

 

Some of my biggest frustrations lately have been finding reliable, motivated people to play with. Because myself and my friends have turned 40-something, they are seem less enthusiastic about music. It's tough because I don't have children, a job(I'm retired), or the time-consuming distractions they have. They also don't value making music the way I do these days and I'm having a tough time finding motivated people to work with. I've also made the decision to not work with people who get high on drugs. I tolerated it for years and I no longer want to deal with stoned musicians. I don't have a moral problem with some drugs because I've done my fair share. I just don't like the way they change the music.

 

I think people talk more about gear than making music because it's difficult to discuss music. Music is something that is kind of abstract....it's difficult to explain but makes perfect sense when you hear it.

[Jeff Addicott]

I think it's very true that gear can be somewhat of a distraction. Having said that, I don't think it's completely wrong to be a bass gear afficionado. Heck, it beats collecting stamps!! (At least I can use a bass on a gig.)

 

As far as the music itself goes, I think there's plenty to talk about. How does one deal with a rushing drummer? Busy vs. sparse. How to choose better notes. Using dynamics. Light vs. heavy touch. Thinking metaphors instead of chord changes. Playing on top of or behind the beat... These are all topics more than worthy of a good, long thread. (I started the one on touch and got a few interesting responses.)

 

------------------

[Jeff Addicott]

Originally posted by bootyquake:

If you had all the equipment you needed, what would you work on? What would be your biggest challenge musically?

 

I suppose I ought to answer your question. It's not so hypothetical for me, either (at least not next week when the 5-string fretless arrives).

 

Here's a few of the things on my musical to-do list (in no particular order):

 

- Try to establish another steady (weekly) gig or two.

- Learn more songs.

- Soloing more fluently (with some intent) over hard changes.

- Presenting my ideas more smoothly over easier changes.

- Making my 8-bar slap solo spotlights not suck the big one.

- Listen to more good records & cop some cool ideas.

- Learn some piano.

- Get some bluegrass gigs.

 

------------------

Jeff Addicott

http://www.jeffnet.org/~addicott/bass.html

[brianrost]

Originally posted by bootyquake:

If you had all the equipment you needed, what would you work on? What would be your biggest challenge musically?

 

I'm currently struggling to learn more about jazz. I've played blues for years and am in a jump band now that requires a more jazzy approach. I'm OK as long as the tune IS a blues, but rhythm changes and standards (not to mention soloing) are still over my head so I'm working on that.

 

I know that putting in the practice time will yield results but right now my rather pathetic interpretations of "Green Dolphin St." and "All The Things You Are" are driving my family crazy http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif Ed, lucky you moved to AZ and don't have to hear this http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

So for now I'm just trying to learn tunes and work on my walking skills.

[bspangleyahoo.com]

It's easier to talk about equipment!!

[Ed Friedland]

For me, one challenge I've been working on the last few years is developing greater harmonic awareness. Playing alot of piccolo bass has helped me with this as I am often the only one on a gig doing the comping. I have to learn how voicings work with different roots (which in turn helps me be more effective on bass too), how to voice lead, how to use different textures like disonance, discover how to combine these elements behind a soloist and even use them as a soloing tool. It's been a trip! I'm finishing up an article on Piccolo bass for BP and the lesson segment of it has alot of this type of info.

 

One of my greatest challenges is learning to rise above the seeming limitations of any given situation and play to the best of my ability, even if I feel like I'm not being supported at a level I feel I need to reach the peak. It's EASY to play your best when you are in a "perfect" situation, but making it happen even when the drummer is bumming you out, now THAT'S a challenge to undertake. (One with very practical rewards too).

 

 

Along those lines, I'm also doing alot of internal, spiritually focused work that I feel brings me closer to the creative source of all things. This is providing tremendous benefits in my connection to the music. I find it happening more often now - when I play, I fall into this space I've cultivated and I hit a deeper groove. It's like opening a channel to the core of the earth and bringing up the energy through the pipeline. That's grounding in action, that's what the bass is all about huh? Any other metaphysically-minded bassists out there?

 

------------------

www.edfriedland.com

[bootyquake]

I should spend more time thinking (or feeling) about metaphysics, as my whole attraction to music is spiritual in nature. It is a real challenge to feel connected to the "source" and even to your other musicians. I find that a tremendous challenge is to get people to go on a musical journey with me and to transcend our illusory selves.

 

One of the great things about music is to be able to create something new--a new organism if you will. It's incredibly beautiful to take a bunch of individuals and create something that couldn't exist outside of the group. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. When you play music "you" are not important--the quality of the music depends on your ability to connect spiritually with the other players, not to see how fast you can play over the changes to "All The Things You Are" over a Jamey Aebersold practice track.

 

In fact, I think personal problems are the greatest obstacles to music. In most of my bands, I end up spend so much energy trying to negotiate greedy egos (my own and others) that music comes in second place. I find that many musicians are bashful to look in someone's eyes when they play. On the other hand, my deepest connection is with my best friend/drummer, and we can be two parts of the same animal. That takes years of trust building, something that shallow "pickup" bandsnever get to. Unfortunately, in the pro-music scenes of NYC and LA, nobody wants to rehearse and connect with people. They want to set the groove, play fast and hard over the tunes, and then split for the next gig. No wonder people aren't grooving and creating new styles like the mythical "old days." Very few want to take the time.

 

I say, in addition to worrying about chord changes and fast licks, try asking your band members how they are feeling at your next practice or gig.

[bspangleyahoo.com]

I say instead of just worrying about the chord changes and the notes ask where the beer is and whether it's a cah bar!!!

[Ed Friedland]

<>

 

Okay, first step, remove the word "Should" from that paragraph and you're on your way!

 

It's true that music is a very intergrated pursuit, it ties together many different aspects of 3 dimensional living and adds the key to opening the door to the 4th dimension and beyond. I find that musicians on the average tend to be more in touch with these layers of existence, and bassists more so than other musicians.

 

Bassists "ground" by opening up a pathway for the energy at the center of the earth to come through. We channel it up from the core and process it through our body/bass/amp mechanism and bring it to the people of earth.

 

Am I crazy? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

------------------

www.edfriedland.com

[cornbread_medhotmail.com]

This is easier said than done. I would work on chord progressions and throw in a little theory mixed with a pinch of learning to really slap and develop perfect pitch and timing along with some latin and world music and then maybe concentrate on locking in with a drummer and learn what notes go with what chords so I never play a wrong note. Other than that, I'd say I have nothing more to learn http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[brianrost]

Originally posted by Ed Friedland:

Am I crazy? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

No, but it sounds like you should do some gigs with Bobby Fripp http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[bootyquake]

Ed:

No, you're not crazy for thinking that musicians and bass players are more connected than most people. I'd especially like to take this time to talk about the bass players of the world.

 

It's very rare that I meet a committed bass player I don't like! Because our role is usually relegated to support, our culture has developed such that we are more giving to other people, and more sensitive about the group aspect of the music. To quote Muzz Skillings "There's more love or something with bass players." In fact, most serious bassists realize this. You can't have a big ego a play truly fine bass, because if you focus on your glory instead of the larger feel of the music, then the groove will be off. Plus, bass players need to know the music inside and out, especially the motion of the harmony and melody. I say that we play more music than most other instrumentalists.

 

That groove has to come from somewhere--out there in the cosmos or at the center of the earth, or whatever. And bass players channel it the most effectively.

 

Show me a bass player who doesn't listen and feel, and I'll show you a band that sucks.

[Ed Friedland]

Amen Brother! I always think of playing bass as a service. Sure, it's an art, but essentially we are here to serve - the music, the band, the coffee... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif (just kidding about the coffee!)

 

 

 

------------------

www.edfriedland.com

[ziga]

Originally posted by Ed Friedland:

Amen Brother! I always think of playing bass as a service. Sure, it's an art, but essentially we are here to serve - the music, the band, the coffee... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif (just kidding about the coffee!)

 

 

 

you've nailed it. i guess these are all things we (already) know, or think we know, but it feels so damn good when somebody else says it too. some reassurance never did no harm.

thank you,

z.

[BenLoy]

Some musicians forget (or never realize through naivete) that all clubs, whether they use a DJ, live music, or simply a jukebox have one primary interest above all else, and that is to sell drinks. Period. I've seen too many bands alienate club owners by thinking that clubs existed solely to allow them to bestow their brilliant, groundbreaking music on the public. The swing band scene in New York has had problems for years, not because of the bands, but because the dancers don't come to shows if the cover charge is too high. What they don't understand is that the cover charges are high because the dancers don't buy any drinks at the bar and opt to order water instead. This prompts the bars to start charging for bottled water instead, which causes the dancers to become indignant and tell all their friends to not go to that club anymore because "the owners are all greedy", etc...

 

A little stream of consciousness brought to you by my wandering mind. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Bill Bolton]

Equipment is easy to write about and the language is reasonable exact. The "music" part is hard to write about and much of the language available for us to use when talking about it is often inexact and easily misunderstood and/or misinterpreted when there is no "body language" feedback to give a clue about what the "speaker" really meant.

 

So the various fora have always tended to have a lot of equipment discussion but not a lot of "music" discussion. IMO, there's nothing "wrong" with that and its not any sort of sign that musicians don't think and talk face to face about music... they just don't write publically about it a lot in this sort of forum.

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

 

 

 

This message has been edited by Bill Bolton on 05-19-2001 at 11:17 AM

[xtian_dup1]

Hey Ed,

Your energy comes from a different place than mine does. I don't feel it coming up from the root of the Earth, like you do...although when I am grooving I feel like I am uniquely attached *to* the Earth.

 

The energy I feel comes from inside of me. I feel it in my core. It has never occurred to me that it might have come from somewhere else (like the root of the Earth).

 

When I play, I feel like I am a sun-lamp. I am pulling energy from my internal batteries, and converting that to light, which is helping the audience (my plants) grow. But I also feel recharged when I play live. So maybe the "plants" are putting out the "oxygen" that I need to keep playing...

 

And maybe I am getting too far out... ;-)

- Christian

Budapest, Hungary

[Steve Lawson]

All interesting stuff - there are manifold reasons why music isn't talked about in these terms - partly because living in a consumer culture, that which can't be measured numerically is often seen as not worth considering - playing fast, owning the best gear, even have the most complex music can be somewhat objectively measured (or at least spun so it sounds objective) which means it can be packaged, marketed and sold. Talk about the root of music, the spiritual things that inspire you, the struggle with ego, self, insecurity, the dictates of fashion etc. are dialogue based fluid concepts that it's very difficult to 'present' in any form other than the music itself. A few very cool books have been written exploring music on this level - the inner game of music, Effortless Mastery and Derrick Bailey's book on Improvisation are all fascinating reading, and leave you with more questions and a greater sense of the journey, which is what it's all about.

 

We all want quick fix - chops-in-a-can, '10 steps to being a sh!t hot be-bop-bad-ass' etc. But it's all total crap - music mastery takes at least two lifetimes, so we're not going to get there. we can just enjoy the journey and try and make it count, try and Find equipment, chops and theory knowledge that removes those blockages and hopefully make enough time to think about music, talk about music, dream about music and meditate on what it means to be human, what it means to create, what the purpose is of our music...

 

It's true that in my case my spiritual perspective colours my approach to making music big time - I'm not sure I would be playing what I do the way I do if I didn't feel in someway connected to a creator God who made us in his/her image...

 

cheers

 

Steve

www.steve-lawson.co.uk

[KAP]

I've always been connected in a spiritual way to the natural world, and music is always a part of that. Recently I saw a nature show about the blue whale. Scientists believe that the blue whale can communicate over vast distances by emitting ultra-low frequency vibrations, like a seismograph can detect waves generated from an earthquake. That really blew me away - a 190 ton leviathan booming deep songs across the open ocean! Forty million years of evolving music from a source we know little about. Tapping into that type of energy is what separates bass from other instruments. It's an elemental presence.

[Ben]

What a great thread!

 

I was always drawn to bass, as if the deep notes were obviously the most important ones, the connected ones. Not a matter of the intellect, and hard to describe in words...

[Ed Friedland]

Christian,

I hear you! I feel the energy like that too. In some ways I see myself more as a conduit than a source. Naturally I have a certain amount of my own power that I carry from situation to situation, but when I really tap into the big stuff, it's like I'm recieving it from a higher place, processing it through me into the earth, grounding and bringing it back up through me. THEN the audience gets to hear it!

 

Hey, let's get freaky!

 

------------------

www.edfriedland.com

[Nicklab]

Bumpity-bump!

 

Dusting this one off! I've noticed a good deal of gear talk in the forum lately. This thread seems like a nice little refresher on why we're here and what we can gain from one another. And I think this might point out that while many of us might be very competent on the instrument, we may also be functional musical illiterates. How many of us are capable sight readers? How many of us know theory inside out? I think it's all food for thought.

[DavidMPires]

And even if you do know scales inside out, are you able to create music??

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

All interesting stuff - there are manifold reasons why music isn't talked about in these terms - partly because living in a consumer culture, that which can't be measured numerically is often seen as not worth considering...

 

Yeah, that's fair enough. And it's easier to understand each other when we talk about some pedal or whatever. The pedal has weight, colour, price, a name... all that, so we know where we're at. Talking abou tinner impulses can sound a) vague and b) like one is being all arty-farty and a wanker. And honestly, I don't know where it comes from and I'm just glad it does.

[Trucks]

Good thread. I find the gear talk, although I get sucked in every now and again, relatively boring. I first joined the GP forum to find out about making music... But there is very little of that going on on the GP forum. The Lowdown has much more in the way of theory threads and discussions on music itself and that is why I read what's going on down here.

 

I have tried on a few occasions to spark some theory threads on GP, and through lack of participation from people like me (people who want to learn), kind of gave up. My attempt at a beginners Jazz theory thread started Ok, but ended up with pages and pages of me asking, and Phil answering.

 

I am grateful for Phil's participation over on GP, he is always great at answering theory questions. A few more of you should share your wisdom up on GP too, just try and ignore the rest of the BS lol.

 

One thing I find extremely irrating up on GP, is that there are many knowledgable musicians on there and many learners. But few people seem to want to teach anything, and hardly anybody ever asks anything theory/music related.

 

I have also recently realised how damaging wasting my time on gawping at gear on the internet has been to my practice, through distractions, that quiet frankly, are not needed.

[Steve Force]

Well, there are other forums here to discuss music-making processes, but I also like the threads on theory and applied bass playing in various genres.

 

Along with this fine forum, I personally dig the keyboard forum here at MP, since many keyboardist know theory, read music, and some of the cats that participate there are very knowledgeable (and professional) composers/musicians.

 

I sometimes tire of the "let's see the new fish" posts here (I would rather see the bassists playing the axe and some sound clips of the tone..) but I really appreciate the knowledge and willingness to share of the posters here.

 

It is all good.

[DavidMPires]

 

I have also recently realised how damaging wasting my time on gawping at gear on the internet has been to my practice, through distractions, that quiet frankly, are not needed.

 

I agreed completly with Eric. I've spent so many our looking at gear, If I'd use a third of it to learn/make nusic I would be a better musician nowadays

[Joe Bloe]

+1 on gear talk bad, theory talk good!

 

I have been working with a couple of theory books and an electric piano the last few weeks. I now get major, minor, augmented and diminished chords. I get inversions, but I'm not ready to try to apply them.

 

I have found that keys are easy on bass (same pattern, different root). I'm working with them on the piano. The piano makes me think about the notes and the intervals. Early on I realized that some song's notes were played with less hand movement by playing the root with my 1st finger, and some with my second. Now I understand why. I also get when to call it a# versus b flat.

 

Sooooo, what equipment to get? A keyboard and a few theory books. They will improve your sound way better than a new pedal!