Looking for short scale/neck thru 6 string basses!

[Jim T.]

Hi! If you read the capo thread, you'll know why I'm looking for a short scale 6 string bass. Preferably a lined fretless.

 

Can you folks turn me on to manufacturers or if you're a builder, do you have a 30" or 28" scale , neck through six string already built that I might try? What are the maximum number of usable frets possible on these scales. I suppose a two octave 24 fret neck is going to be too tight for finger room past 20 frets or so? I know of a lot of builders who will make something for me, but I need to try out an instrument already in existence if possible.

 

Alembics I know about but they are VERY expensive. I'm thinking in the 1-2,000 range tops.

I have tried the Kydd "upright" travel bass and kind of liked it. It has a 30" scale BUT I'm primarily looking for a 6 string bass GUITAR.

Has anyone had much experience with the Fender six string? Can one get a true bass sound from them? I don't mind close string spacing but I do need true 6 string bass range. THANKS IN ADVANCE! Jim T.

[Mr. Wise Man]

Check the Bassculture link I listed in the capo thread. Christoph Dolf builds neck-through short-scale fretless six string basses for around DM2700, which is about $1300. Although the site is in German, I'm fairly certain Herr Dolf speaks English, so send him an e-mail.

[brianrost]

Originally posted by Jim T.:

What are the maximum number of usable frets possible on these scales. I suppose a two octave 24 fret neck is going to be too tight for finger room past 20 frets or so? I know of a lot of builders who will make something for me, but I need to try out an instrument already in existence if possible.

 

Go try a Danelectro Longhorn bass, that has 24 frets on a 30" scale. It'll give an idea of what the fret spacing will be like.

[Jim T.]

Mr. Wise Man and brianrost,

Thank you for the responses and link! Mr. W.M., your comments about approaching one's wife about purchases in the Gas Attack Thread showed that you are indeed wise!

 

The Longhorn suggestion is great. Thanks I'll seek one out this week. It's good to know that 24 fret short scales are out there.

 

PLEASE KEEP 'EM COMING! . I've been actively exploring this for about a year and have little luck finding EXISTING instruments. With this magnificent resource, my quest stands a far better chance of success! Thanks again. Jim T.

[ilan]

Originally posted by Jim T.:

Has anyone had much experience with the Fender six string? Can one get a true bass sound from them? I don't mind close string spacing but I do need true 6 string bass range.

 

True bass sound - well, sort of, only with the neck pickup. Certainly not a really deep sound. True 6 string bass range - I don't know if you'll be able to fit a low B string through the nut and the hole in the tuning post where the string passes. This instrument was designed for EADGBE tuning, I think the Dano is too, you have to consider the extra tension on the neck. I emailed Danelectro about this and they recommend extra-light gauge strings (E= .084). The Fender can take .095 low E.

[Jim T.]

Thanks guys. Any more short scale 6's? I keep haunting the local vintage stores to try the Fender 6 but haven't found one yet. There was an imported version a couple of years ago but (Squeir-ish) but haven't seen one of those either. Jim T.

[Jim T.]

Shameless Bump...

[ilan]

Jim - you're right about the import version, it was made in Japan for a year or two (~97?) and then discontinued. These reissues, although hard to find, are the affordable ones - should be around $700. The vintage VIs are much more expensive (and are also hard to find), even the 70's models with the bound neck.

Burns of London have a similar short scale model, called Barracuda, still in production:

http://www.burnsguitars.co.uk/basses/barracuda.html

[musicman1ovation.net]

I came here to start a new thread (I thought) looking for a short scale, neck through bass. In my case, I'm looking for either 4 or 5 strings. I think I missed the boat by not getting a Stanley Clarke Alembic 5 string used a while back, but it was just a tad over what I felt comfortably spending.

 

I looked at the Burns six string, but according to them, it's actually a baritone guitar. It's an octave lower than a guitar and an octave higher than a bass. They do look cool, though. I personally do not want fretless, and would prefer from 30" to 31". Alembic short scales are generally 30.75". If it's good enough for Stanley.... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

I think the suggestion of trying something (Danelectro or whatever you can find) for fret spacing was good; and then from there, you might want to find a good independent custom builder. That's probably what I'll need to do.

 

Good luck.

[ilan]

Originally posted by musicman1@ovation.net:

I looked at the Burns six string, but according to them, it's actually a baritone guitar. It's an octave lower than a guitar and an octave higher than a bass.

 

Musicman1 - an octave lower than a guitar is a bass; An octave higher than a bass is piccolo bass. The 4 lower strings of the Burns (and Fender VI, and Dano Longhorn 6) are standard bass range.

 

A baritone is usually tuned A to A - a fourth above bass. Of course, you can put lighter strings on the Burns and tune it to bari. The 30 inch scale is good for bari tuning.

[Jim T.]

ilan, Thanks for the tip on the Burns Bari. I hadn't heard of them. I've considered Bari Guitars, but I'm hoping to find a "true" short scale bass 6 string. I'll definitely seek out a Burns when I'm in Canada (I'm near the border) where they have a lot of British products. (Commonwealth country.)

[ilan]

Jim - here's another idea: an Alembic Stanley Clarke Signature Standard is $4,600 for the 5-string model (no price stated in their website for 6-string, must be higher though), or $5,600 for the 5-string Deluxe model. On the other hand, a 6-string Alembic Essence, custom ordered with a short (30.75 inches) scale, is "just" $3,925, and you can order a different body shape if you want, for example Europa (according to the Alembic website this is $150 extra). Not cheap, but more affordable than the Clarke Sig. And this, in contrast to the Burns/Fender/Dano, is a REAL bass.

[Jim T.]

Thanks again ilan! Alembic was the first place I looked. I need to stay in the $2,000 tops range if I possibly can. (I may have to be patient...) in order to get this whole concept past my "Minister of Finance" as Wise Man put it. I am also (unfortunately) kind of fussy about looks. If I replace my beautiful flamed maple pedulla, I'd like to get something similarly beautiful for a life-long instrument. I've thought about CARVIN. Ed, do you know if they'd do a custom scale through neck? I'll call them sometime this week. ilan, I really appreciate how you've been keeping a look out for me! Jim T.

[Ed Friedland]

Jim,

Well, I can't answer for Carvin on that, I'd give them a call. They do "custom shop" work, but it's mostly different woods, pickups, finishes etc based on their pre-existing designs. It's all cut on Fadal CNC machines. To do a one-off might not be cost effective as they'd have to create a design and program it into the machine for that one axe. Hey, ask them, you never know.

 

 

 

------------------

www.edfriedland.com

[Jim T.]

Thank you Ed, I'll call them this week. Jim T. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[musicman1ovation.net]

I wrote Carvin an email about two months ago asking if they had ever in the past or might ever in the future make a neck-through short scale bass. I also asked about custom.

 

Their reply was somewhat of a dis of the short scale bass, commenting on their "honking" tone. I was really surprised by the response. I do recall hearing a very decent Gibson EB-0 years ago... warm and smooth. They are not neck-through, but an old one is a very decent set neck bass, and I've seen some (usually early sixties) for anywhere from $900.00 to about $1,500.00. I almost bought one but it had to be through the mail, and I'm a little uncomfortable with getting an older bass (or new one, for that matter) without playing first.

[Jim T.]

Music Man 1,

Thanks for the addition to this thread! I'd love to hear from more players on the quest for short scale basses Especially 6s and sevens.

I haven't heard back from Carvin yet, but it sounded like a similar reaction...

Alembic makes mention on their site that the short scale basses of the sixties didn't necessarily sound the way they did just because of the short scale! (They will build you a short scale but it's about 7 grand for a Series II.)

 

Mustang (Fender) and EB 0s (Gibsons) often had really cheezy sounding pickups (that is to say they were inconsistent) and the flat wound strings of the day didn't help one bit. I often wish that I could have heard Jack Bruce with wound rounds on his Cream stuff!

 

Please let me know if you find what you're looking for! Jim T.

[Jim T.]

Any luthiers got one? Tactful bumping... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[musicman1ovation.net]

Originally posted by Jim T.:

Music Man 1,

Mustang (Fender) and EB 0s (Gibsons) often had really cheezy sounding pickups (that is to say they were inconsistent) and the flat wound strings of the day didn't help one bit. I often wish that I could have heard Jack Bruce with wound rounds on his Cream stuff!

 

Please let me know if you find what you're looking for! Jim T.

 

My 1974 Mustang had super crummy electronics, but I had it all replaced around 1980. It required a new pick guard to hide the change from one form factor to another. Originally, it had a white Lace-looking (wasn't like the current Lace PUs) pickup. I don't even recall the exact pickup that was used to replace, but it was a cream colored (like old Les Paul PUs) split Precision type pickup from a third party. Because the string spacing is different than a Precision, the angle had to be adjusted a little to make sure the pickup adjustment screws were situated under the strings. I will never get rid of that bass. Even though I do still wish I had a good neck-through-body short scale, that old Mustang is built like a tank. It isn't anything like the short scale Squire I saw a few years ago (don't know the exact model - some may be much better). It has the same solid feel as a Precision of the same period. Even the tuning gears aren't too bad. The fret board is blond (maple) and in all these years the intonation has stayed solid as well as the frets themselves. It's like they took a really good bass and imparted it with the cheapest electronics they could find. I suspect that was to place it in the "student" market; with the marketing assumption being that only a beginner would play short scale.

 

I'm considering having my short scale Micro-Frets bass worked on. I had it altered some years back (perhaps prematurely), and at this point I'd like to undo one of the changes. I'm not sure exactly what they did, but they filled the hollowed-out insides to make it more solid and less resonant sounding. I do recall that they said it wasn't a permanent alteration, so I'm thinking I'd like to go back to the hollowed-out body. The only kind of pickups it will take are the top mount kind where the body doesn't have to be routed out for the pickup's body. There just has to be a place for the wires. I think I'd like to go with active electronics on that bass, and if it were possible, maybe a bridge pickup. The hardware on that bass might well be proprietary, so I guess any changes would have to be built to that limitation. After all is done, it needs refinishing. I got it dirt cheap at the factory in 1970 or 1971 (?), and it was because the finish was ruined. It looked (actually, more like it felt) like alligator skin. So, what would have cost close to $500.00 back then, cost me $50.00. Good deal. The fret board is EXCELLENT! The original PUs were... I don't know for sure, but maybe P U!! (a little pun, there) I knew even less about basses then than now, and I made the change to tighten up the sound. It is possible I should have checked into strings, too, though. Ideally, I'd like one bass with flat wounds (or maybe the ground down rounds that feel flat but are a bit brighter), another with very round wound, and another with nylon strings. Anyone out there use nylon strings? I know they lack a certain punch, but if all is right, they can have a pretty pleasing mellowness of their own. It is imperative to match them to the tight bass, though. The Mustang tends to be the only one that wants to get funky. Pops, taps and snaps work best there. The Micro-Frets worked good with nylons, but I don't think I've found its best personality yet. And my newer Epiphone "Beatle Bass"... well, I guess I ought to face it... it might turn out to be my use-a-pick bass. I sometimes have trouble admitting even to myself that I can enjoy playing with a pick, and that particular bass seems to work best that way for me. Might be the string spacing, but I think it's tone figured in there, too. Anyway, somewhere along the line I got this idea that picks were a no-no uncool. Like, even if it sounded right, I'd want to hide the pick if anyone was looking! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif So, I've truly enjoyed reading about Carol Kaye, who often uses a pick. As a top LA session bassist in the 60s, 70s, etc., she's created countless non-nonsense, in-the-pocket, pop-perfect bass parts for a number of hit artists. For studio players, it's never about what looks cool, or even what the superstar bassists are doing it's about what sounds good in the context of great pop recordings. I'd be curious to know if she ever uses short scale bases, but I don't know.

[Jim T.]

Hi Ed et.al....

Carvin Emailed me and told me that they don't (won't,can't) make me a short scale six string. So the search continues. I'd definitely want to try an existing instrument if one existed. I keep hoping that luthiers who've tried making one will see this now HOT topic and respond.

I'd like to be a brave pioneer but I'd have to win the lotto first in order to initiate the project. My NEXT STEP may be to contact the Fender custom shop to see if they would make me a six string width neck to try on my Squier P/JJ bass without that neck costing more than the bass did!? Jim T.