Ed Friedland Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 There was a time when high end cabinets meant SWR or Eden, period. Now there are many new breed cabs out there, Epifani, Bergantino, Euphonic to name some. What are your impressions of these new designs. Is hi-fi better for live playing? Is a flat response desirable? Or do you prefer a particular frequency curve for a live rig? ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST.Morigeaugte.net Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 My theory instructor has been a user of Acme Low B-2's for a couple of years now. He provides the lowend for a standard jazz trio, an 11pc funk band and fills in now and then for a great local blues band. The Acme's really perform no matter wether he is play an upright, fretted 5 or fretless 6. I have just purchased a pair of two tens' (actually ordered one and bought the other used). I'm powering it(them)with a GK 2000RB. I play in Blues / Funk band myself and to this point am very happy with this set up. Andy Lewis explains it best about how he has arrived at his design of his cabinets, the choice of horns, drivers and crossover electronics. I can only add from listening and now playing through them, they do have quite response range. Further info can be found at his site 'Acme Sound LTD'. Happy Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted March 1, 2001 Author Share Posted March 1, 2001 My friend (and exceptional luthier) Bob Mick just got an Acme B2. He says it sounds good, but was dismayed at how much power it needs to match the volume of his single 15" cab. I'll have to go down to his shop and try it out. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST.Morigeaugte.net Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 Originally posted by Ed Friedland: My friend (and exceptional luthier) Bob Mick just got an Acme B2. He says it sounds good, but was dismayed at how much power it needs to match the volume of his single 15" cab. I'll have to go down to his shop and try it out. I totally agree..... they do requirement/ and or will take quite a jot!! You need to respect your power source and recognize it's "headroom" benefits. And just pray your compressor doesn't checkout right when yer diggin with a couple good thumb strokes.... Really interested to hear what kinda tone you can get with yer gear.... Morigeau This message has been edited by Mo Thumper on 03-07-2001 at 06:36 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST.Morigeaugte.net Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Hey Ed-man!! Ya had an opportunity to rattle those Acme's yet?? I'm still fishin for validation!! Pining Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Addicott Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 I've had a Euphonic Audio 110 for the past 2 1/2 years. For awhile it was languishing and I almost sold it, but then I got an upright jazz gig with a loud drummer. This cabinet sounds fantastic for that! It fills the room with a nice, full-spectrum sound that accurately captures all the nuances of my upright bass. And it's very small and light -- easily toteable with one hand. I won't be selling this thing, now! I also have an Acme 210, and I concur that it takes a ridiculous amount of power to really get it going. When you do, though... WOW! That small box absolutely kicks butt, with tons and tons and tons of bottom end. I've had some absolutely incredible tone days with that cab. I don't use it a lot at the moment, however, because it doesn't agree with my power amp very well. Run through one side, there's not quite enough power, but run bridged, there's way too much. With way too much power (1200 watts into a 4 ohm 210) it sounded heavenly, but I ran into reliability problems with the amp and eventually I "melted" one of the speakers (somehow overdriving it and causing it to short out). Oops... Jeff Addicott http://www.jeffnet.org/~addicott/bass.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST.Morigeaugte.net Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 >> jEFF SEZ<< I don't use it a lot at the moment, however, because it doesn't agree with my power amp very well. Run through one side, there's not quite enough power, but run bridged, there's way too much. With way too much power (1200 watts into a 4 ohm 210) it sounded heavenly, but I ran into reliability problems with the amp and eventually I "melted" one of the speakers (somehow overdriving it and causing it to short out). Oops... You should share this with Andy Lewis at Acme....... He is looking for just this type of feed back. I'm running (1) 2x10 with a GK2000RB and I'm experiencing the same..... the bastard wants more!!! I've ordered an addtional to take some of the load.. I've never in 20 years of playing had a cab as small as this produce sensation under my feet... I know it would appear that I've solicited feed back.... and I'm in no way connected to Acme...... but I am quickly becoming a Zealot. Low-End Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted March 8, 2001 Author Share Posted March 8, 2001 I haven't had the chance to try out the Acme yet, but this weekend I'm picking up a Bergantino 310. Bergantino used to work for Epifani, so he knows his stuff. What I've heard from owners is: very accurate response, it doesn't color the sound. Massive bottom and smooth, detailed highs. It has a 750 watt capcity and it's 4 ohms, weighs in at 84 lbs. I'm very psyched, I'll give you a report once I take it out for a spin. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianrost Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Andy Lewis claims 500 watts is as much as you should put into a B2. I put in 400 watts and it farts out easily, I just can't use it because I can't get loud enough http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif The light weight, small size and reasonable price are meaningless if I need two of them plus a 1200 watt power amp to make it usable http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif If I was doing lower volume gigs, it would be lovely, though. This message has been edited by brianrost on 03-08-2001 at 04:09 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianrost Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Followup to my previous post. I took delivery an Epifani T-112 cabinet last week, been out on three gigs to date with it. I took the time to A/B it at home against my B2 as well as the other cabs I own. Epifani has a rep for "uncolored" sound but next to the B2 cabinet, it's no contest, the B2 is much more neutral sounding. It makes sense, since the Acme is a 3 way design that the midrange is more open and clear. Bass extension of the B2 is also a bit better, but it is a larger box. The Epifani is more efficient and has a "throatier" sound, but the coloration is still much less than my other cabs (including an SWR Baby Blue), so in that sense it is pretty "hi fi" and quite small and light to boot. That said, I like the Epifani better. It is not so polite sounding and of course it doesn't have the "Acme fart" problem to deal with. I get plenty of volume without audible breakup. It still gives me a great sound with my upright, it sounds "muscular" without being boomy or flabby like some cabinets and it doesn't have that nasal midrange coloration that I hate. Anyway, it just reinforces my belief that your choice of speaker has more impact on your onstage sound than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ncognito Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 I just sold my Acme B-2 cabinet. I transferred the Acme components into an Eden 210T cabinet. What a difference! I'm no fan of rear-ported cabinets, and as I expected, the Acme/Eden combo was a MONSTER. I'm currently using an Epifani 310. I like the Epifani better than my Eden 210XLT. It seems to have a little better low end control, and is certainly more polite sounding. I never thought I'd find a box that I prefer over the Eden, but so far the Epifani is a winner! I have a Bergantino 310 being delivered on Wednesday, so I'll give the report on it soon. ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassLand Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Brian Rost ended his last post saying: Anyway, it just reinforces my belief that your choice of speaker has more impact on your onstage sound than anything else. Interesting thought. I have had several cabinets which were high quality to start with but yes, they all had their own personality. Initially, if I knew the speaker box was of high quality, then I just adjusted the controls of the amp to get my sound. After a while I got into the notion that the amp should sound good flat and took the amp tone controls out of the equasion. I only use those tone controls for problem rooms. I then relied more on the choice of pickups and the onboard tone controls (that was part of why I don't use the amps controls anymore). I have to admit that none of my former speaker cabinets was as "Hi Fi" as the EA (even though some were 2 way with tweeters). I really like the EA's character. They are more efficient that the accounts I read here about Acme's need for power. One thing I have absolutely given up on is being loud past the point where it "feels" comfortable. I do believe the bass should be out front in the mix as it is with most recordings but there is a point of diminishing returns for that effort and it means everybody has to play with sensitivity. Just my thoughts on a good subject... BL This message has been edited by BassLand on 03-19-2001 at 08:46 PM BassLand www.BassLand.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted March 20, 2001 Author Share Posted March 20, 2001 I tried an Acme B2 today at my buddy, luthier Bob Mick's shop. Hard to tell really because all he had was a GK 800 RB which is not enough to get it going. I'm curious about the 112 Epifani, it's funny how bass players ignored 12's for so long. I know that Bergantino is also readying a 112T for the market and I expect to check it out when it's available. Brian, I tend to agree with the statement about speakers/cabs having the most profound effect on the sound. Having played for years with good instruments and good amps out of "good" boxes. I notice a huge difference going to the Bergantino. And yet, my understanding is he uses the same basic components everyone else does, but there's something in the physics of the phase alignment and the crossover etc. I don't understand that stuff at all. Being technically inclined as you are, you may find it interesting to email them (especially since Jim is located in Hopkinton!) and ask about tech specs. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 I've talked to a few players who think the Epifani 212 is a killer, including Matthew Garrison. It (or Bergantino's. which looks and is priced similarly) may very well be my next cab. Euphonic or Eden three-way designs may be smoother, but these 212s seem to be the highest SPL in the weight class that also have a pretty accurate curve and good bass extension. Though must hear the new coax Euphonics, which seem to trade low roll-off and upper treble for more SPL per pound. The 310s look good too, but I think the 212s are just a bit fuller in low bass frequencies, and bass 12s I have heard sound pretty nice in the mids for what I do. <-- greenboy ---<<<< Phoenix Developer Consortium [http://phinixi.com] . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Ed, Interesting what you said about the Acme + GK800 combination. I use this setup and I have no problems with it. I've even used it in a situation w/ 3 guitarists (each thru 100 watt marshalls) and I've never needed more. I remember having problems initally when I was trying to play it thru an 8 ohm version of their cabinet and I had severe headroom problems, but switching to the 4 ohm cabinet seemed to solve this problem, and now I couldn't be happier... (well, the GK is still heavier than an Eden Traveller... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted March 28, 2001 Author Share Posted March 28, 2001 BenLoy, I believe the B2 I tried was an 8 ohm box. With the GK that's not much power. And compared to the 15" Theil cab my friend also has (8ohms), the Acme was noticeably quieter. It is small, I'll say that. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual.rayprodigy.net Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 I run an SWR SM400S into a 4 ohm Acme B2 Series II.With a 5 string,it's enough for small rooms.I've yet to hear better response on the lower notes of the B string and the rest of the spectrum is very true as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy_dup1 Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 I've been using an SWR sm-400 and two jr. goliaths for years with great results. For a lot of gigs I only bring one cabinet. Previously I was using a Boogie 1x15 cabinet. I bought the 2x10 cabinet to put on top for the highs, but after doing some experimenting I found that the SWR 2x10 cabinet not only had more highs than the Boogie 1x15, but it also had more lows. That's when I sold the Boogie and went to the two cabinets. Now in the old days I was playing out of 2 15s and 18 and a 12 and I'll never have that sound again, but I am very happy with my current sound (I don't have to fill up 300 seat clubs with a huge bass sound anymore.) If I did, I think I just would keep adding 10's. It's so much easier to hear myself on stage and get a sound a like right where I'm standing as well as in the rest of the room. One of these days I'll upgrade to something newer and "better" but I've got no complaints now. ------------------ http://www.jps.net/jeremy/basspage.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derm75yahoo.com Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 I've got an ACME Low B 4x10 that I've been using for 2 years with a Trace Elliot RAH250SMX head, and I love it. I've always thought it was loud enough even though it is 8 ohms and should only be getting about 200 watts max from my head, and I've never turned the master up past 5. I think the tone is phenominal, the only EQ I use is about -3db @ 60 hz, with the mid and hi attenuators @ 80%. This cab has more bass than the 2-15 JBL cab I had before it. I originally bought a Mackie M1400 power amp to use with it because I'd heard of the headroom and power issues, but ended up getting rid of the power amp because it wasn't necessary. I've used this set up at some pretty loud blues jams, and could pretty easily fill the room with sound. And all the other bassists that sat in loved it. Jeremy Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurosawa Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 About that low cut, Jeremy, that Low B-4 sure pumps out the lard, doesn't it? First cab I ever owned that I could say had more bottom than I needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted April 23, 2001 Author Share Posted April 23, 2001 Well, there's a new kid on the block. BP Contributing Technical Editor Terry Buddingh just told me about Wayne Jones cabinets. They're from Australia and look pretty cool. The website is: http://www.waynejonesamplification.com.au/ He checked them out for BP and really liked them. Keep your eyes open for a review in the near future. On the Bergantino front, I will be getting one of their new 112 designs very soon on spec. I love my 310, but it's too big for some gigs. The 112 has a tweeter and a fairly high power handling (around 450Watts). I'll do a post on it when I've tried it out. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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