34"? - 35"? - 36"?

[Ed Friedland]

The 35" scale that was once reserved for the high end 5 string market has trickled down to more affordable instruments. This must mean something. Is it really that desirable? Can you get a great B string with 34" scale? What trade-offs are there with the 35"? And what about the big boys using 36" or more? What about 35" scale 4 strings, is it really necessary?

[Mr. Wise Man]

I think that there's a fair amount of voodoo here, and that you can get a good sounding B string on a bass with a 34" scale -- hell, I've heard a 32" scale bass where the B sounded pretty good. But I prefer the longer scales because I can get a much better sounding B *while using lighter strings*, because these strings sound more musical to me. I think a lot of five string set are out of balance -- .040 .060 .080 .100 .128 might give you a nice heavy sounding B, but to my ears it doesn't sound like it's on the same bass guitar. I'm not so sure that you should an "AWESOME B STRING, MAAANNN!" unless you also have "AWESOME E, A, D, AND G STRINGS, MAAANNN!"

 

I also prefer the feel of a 35" or 36" bass -- I like that the strings feel taughter, and the longer reach works well with my big hands. For the same reason I kind of like longer scale four strings, like the old Gibson Thunderbirds (which are a bit messed-up -- the neck is designed for a 34.5" scale, but the bridges are often installed for a 35" scale).

[bootyquake]

I think that there are plenty of physical reasons that make longer scale lengths more resonant--Anthony Jackson swears by longer scale length, but admits that he pays the price in easy fingering. Stu Hamm, on the other hand, has 32" basses. I love both of their tones, so I guess it's just personal taste. There's nothing implicitly "better" about 48" scale length.

[Ed Friedland]

Well, for my taste I prefer the 34". I briefly had a 35" Lakland and while the B was definitely massive, I wasn't comfortable with the rest of the neck. It's mostly what I'm used to. I'm using a LaBella Hard Rocking Steel 128 B and many people consider that to be light, they think a B should be 130-135. I think the string plays a big role in the success as well as the string length. But my Carvin has a nice full B at 34", every Sadowsky I've ever played had a great B at 34", so I know it's possible. I played a Dingwall with the fanned frets and it had a 36" or maybe 37" B string! But with the fanned frets, the C was a 34" scale. This bass really had the best of both worlds. It wasn't hard to get used to, just don't look down!

[Mr. Wise Man]

For the record, I'm using a .120 B on a 35" scale (.040 - .100 on everything else), and like it a lot. I used a heavier B when I played 34" scale basses, and it sounded nice and big on my MusicMan in particular, but felt wrong and had a slightly different timbre than the rest of the strings. TOO big, somehow.

 

This message has been edited by Mr. Wise Man on 02-15-2001 at 03:43 PM

[bootyquake]

I played the Dingwall too, and what's amazing is how comfortable it is despite how weird the frets look. When you consider it, the extra scale length does help the B, and our wrists and shoulders aren't linear, so somehow it makes sense.

[jeremy_dup1]

We seem to be in a transition period when the basic size of instrument is changing. If you look at the history of the saxophone, Adolphe Sax came up with all kinds of saxophones and saxhorns. Does anyone remember the C Melody Saxophone? Nowadays, everyone takes the basic sizes of baritone, tenor, alto, and soprano for granted.

 

If you think about guitars, we have "Fender scale" and "Gibson scale"--two different lengths for the neck. And then along came Paul Reed Smith who built an instrument with a scale in between the two.

 

I have been playing on 34" inch basses for 35 years, can play the bass without looking at it, and can almost play in my sleep (I might even have done this on a gig or two ). Any other scale feels very uncomfortable to me and at this point I do not feel like getting used to a new scale. (Well, I am trying to get used to my 18" Ashbory ). It seems as if I have enough work practicing with 4,5, 6 strings, fretted and fretless, to say nothing of picking up a guitar from time to time.

 

At one point I had a fretless bass built with a 33" inch scale. The idea was that I would be able to play "one finger per fret" positions and stay in tune better--most of the time in four finger position on a 34 bass, my first finger is closer to the next fret and my fourth finger is closer to the previous fret. I went back to a standard size fretless because it felt too uncomfortable switching scales when I switched basses. On a 35 inch bass I don't think I could play in one finger per fret position at all.

 

The Dingwall bass is an interesting idea. If you don't look at it, it feels perfectly normal. I played various prototypes when Ralph Novak was developing this system.

 

IMHO, it is perfectly possible to get a good low B sound out of a 34" scale bass. I would encourage builders to work toward this goal rather than re-invent the instrument.

 

------------------

http://www.jps.net/jeremy/basspage.html

[Ed Friedland]

Jeremy, I tend to agree with you on the 34" scale. Maybe for some of the younger, more flexible players 35" isn't such a big deal. It's not really about age I guess, but 35 years of playing is more than many of our members have been alive! I've only been playing for 27 years, dude, you're old! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Anyway, one thing I found that helped me get more out of my B string on a 34" was having the string come through the body. Some people think it's the greater downforce on the bridge saddle creating better string coupling with the body, others think it's the extra string length from point to point (even though the scale is still 34"). I think wood has alot to do with it. My Carvin Koa BB75 always had what I'd consider an "adequate" B string, but I was led to experiment to try and improve it. When I recieved a Swamp Ash version of the same bass, the difference was remarkable. The B is much more happening.

 

I had a kit 5 string many years ago thatsounded great, except for the B, totally flabby. I used a Ken Smith 145 B to get some tension, went through the body, but nothing worked. Funny thing is, I saw the bass last month when the guy I sold it to visited, and 7 years later, it sounded great. I guess it needed to be broken in. Or maybe it just didn't like me!

 

Any other thoughts on getting a good B string?

[Mr. Wise Man]

Well, just to tie a couple of threads together, I found on my 34" instruments that B strings sounded much better with a light touch -- when I started whacking them, they lost focus, but if I let the amp do the work, things were bigger and clearer. The same thing is true for longer scale basses, but not quite to the same degree -- you can whack a bit more.

 

I'd been playing for almost fifteen years when I switched to 35" basses, by the way -- I took right to them, and feel a bit cramped when I play basses with a shorter scale length, but I do believe that that's simply a matter of taste and physiological differences rather than Proof Of My Advanced Bass Player Status.

[g.]

I spend most of my time on an alder-body Carvin LB75 fretless. I settled on Smith Compressors (compression wound - natch), which have a taper-core .125 B string. 34" scale, and it does pretty good - especially through a rig that actually transmits more extra-low frequencies. But it also sounds good through the typical roll-off sound 10 cabs tend to have.

 

The taper-core matches tonality and sustains more like the rest of the set, better than any of the solid-core strings I've slotted in to experiment - has better mids and treble. But it doesn't have quite the transient low whack a solid core has. Good trade-off.

 

One trick I've tried that worked to match an overly bright taper-core to a set is to put a very light coating of superglue for about 1/4" of an inch where the outer core ends down by the bridge. It's a good trade if a solid core sounds too thumpy but a tapercore too bright.

 

The other interesting phenomena I found by lightly touching the strings on the other side of the nut near the tuners and thumping each string. I realized then that the B string was getting its headstock-side vibrations soaked differently than the rest because its tuner is relatively close to the nut.

 

So on intuition I experimented by cutting the wrap thread off all the way to the end of the outer core where the string is almost ready to wrap around the tuner. This made a subtle but noticable improvement in dynamics the string could deliver, and sustained maybe a tad better too.

 

As noted a post or two above, beating the B string too hard doesn't necessarily pay off in a bigger and better sound, it just flops around too erratically and is more liable to make fret or fingerboard noise, and the tone tends to lose focus. I think on some basses I've tried, the B string also is too close to the edge of the pickup's sensing area and when vibrating tends to be partially out of that area, making for a weaker sound.

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<   happy B : }

[Lee Flier]

OK, this is totally off topic but I saw the thread's subject and just had to jump in with this:

 

A woman goes walking past her local Shakespeare theatre and notices that the marquee doesn't list any play titles - instead it just reads '3", 6", 9", and 12"'.

 

Curious, she walks up to the box office and asks what this means.

 

"Oh," the woman at the box office replies, "The full titles won't all fit on the marquee, so we just used abbreviations. 3" is 'Much Ado About Nothing', 6" is 'As You Like It', 9" is 'A Midsummer Night's Dream', and 12" is 'The Taming of the Shrew!'"

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[dansouth]

I played a Carvin 4 (LB50) for many years, but I was disappointed with the LB75. The B was NOT happening, and the string spacing is way too tight for my hands (I'm 6'2"). I played a Lakland and fell in LUV!! The only 34" bass I play now is a Lakland Bob Glaub precision-style bass. It's such a classic design - I wouldn't add a milimeter.

 

34" scale is perfect for four strings. I may pick up a new Carvin 4 at some point, because I like the way my old one cut through recordings, and I've got my eye on a Lakland Joe Osborne - AWESOME bass! But the extra inch makes a huge difference on the B-string, and the Lakland 55-94 has become my main axe.

 

What do YOU think, Lee? Does that extra inch make a difference? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[David R.]

OK, you people are sick. With all your talk about size and bottom. This must end. As(s)inine I say. We will be the Butt of jokes. Too cheeky for me.

 

-David R.

[dansouth]

Hey, Lee!

 

Great joke, but you posted it to the wrong topic. I think you were looking for the 36" - 24" - 36" topic. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Ed Friedland]

Dan,

I prefer the wider spacing of the BB75 for most stuff, especially slapping. For fretless I like the LB75 for easier string crossing. As I said, depending on the wood used for the body, the B string response will vary. The Swamp Ash rules!

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[dansouth]

I've tried a couple of BB75's - one at Carvin's Santa Ana store and a used one in a local store in my home state - and I didn't like the feel of it. I really LIKED the LB75 (rounded body) except for the string spacing. I waited for Carvin to come out with a "large format" bass (perhaps a five string with an LB76 neck and a wider bridge) but it never happened, so I tried some other brands and found one that I really like.

[Ed Friedland]

Well, the BB 75 has the asymetrical neck profile. Not everyone likes that, I think Tobias did that first. I like it because it puts more wood under the B string and keeps it feeling slim under the G. If you wanted a ^ string neck with % strings you must be into very wide spacing. The BB is about as wide as I want to go. I remember playing some Warmouth 5's in the 80's that had full P-bass spacing all the way across, wow, they were huge! Too big for me, but perhaps not for everyone.

[dude_dup3]

My luthier, Michael Dolan made a "J-Bass" for a customer in either Florida or Texas a few months ago that was a 36" scale 5 string with asymetrical neck profile. It was a monster..way too big for my small hands but I did find the asymetrical neck profile to be a big help. Here's a pic of the bass:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=637760&a=6669945&p=22329878

 

Here's a closeup of the body:

 

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=637760&a=6669945&p=22329879

 

This message has been edited by Dude on 02-21-2001 at 05:01 AM

[xtian_dup1]

Hey Ed,

You clearly like the sound of the B on a swamp ash body...so how heavy is swamp ash? Is it a very heavy wood? What are its other characteristics?

 

- Christian

Budapest, Hungary

www.Crunchy-Frog.com

[Ed Friedland]

Christian, well there's a topic down the list called "What woods sound best" I'd peek in there, maybe bring this over to that folder. But to answer you, it's hard to qualify the exact properties of a wood, but my experience with Swamp Ash is it's a fairly light weight wood. It has an open, airy resonance in the low frequencies. This is partly subjective of course. Check out the wood topic, there's some good responses in there.

 

Dude, That Dolan 36" J bass looks nice! If I were only man enough to play it! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[Jonathan Starr]

I recently got an MTD 435, which has become my instrument of choice. It's so clear and melodic, much of which I attribute to the 35" scale and part to the Buzz Feiten tuning and part to Mike's general skill.

 

I expected to have trouble adjusting to the longer stretch, but it isn't much of an issue (at least compared to my other inadequecies of technique; I'm still learning my way) and I hardly notice the difference when I switch over back and forth to a shorter bass. Overall, the bass feels a bit smaller in my hands compared to a Jazz.

 

Aloha,

 

Jonathan

kalepa@maui.net

[rainer_dup1]

I think one key factor ist the size of your hands and what you are playing. Sold my Dean Edge Select5 some weeks ago, a 35" neckthru monster which was all to long for me. I also could not get used to the fingerboard size (usually playing a Mex JB).

 

The other think is what you play. If you need that Jazz Bass sound without a low B you dont need a 35" scale bass. I will stay now with my Jazz Bass, no fifth string, no other experiments again (well, except that I am looking for a used Precision ... :-))

[RobT]

Slightly Off Subject Reply:

 

Hey Mr. Wise Man where did you find a five string set with a .120 B?

 

I'm playing an Ibanez 5 string with a 34" scale and have never been completly satisfied with the feel of most five string sets. I've tried

GHS, DR, Ken Smith and LaBella's. Most of sets with the low B are in the

.125 to .130+ diameter. That seems to be what most of the music stores carry.

 

Where did you get yours and can I get them off the internet?

 

On Subject Reply:

 

Seems like there are some luthiers who make a great sounding low B in the "34 scale range. It is not an exact science but I have a feeling string diameter proably has as much to do with the tone as well as scale length and other factors. I am considering a new five string and from the ones I've tried the longer scale seems to sound and feel a bit better.

[dude_dup3]

RobT,

 

The Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Bass Roundwounds JR345 (yes, they make other strings than the Jazz Flats!) have a .118 B String.

 

Their EB345 "Powerbass" set have a .119 B String.

 

I have gauges and tensions posted here:

 

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=637760&a=10217830

 

Yeah, I sell TI strings but I'm posting this to give you the information not to solicit sales...really!!! It's just that most people don't even know that TI makes any other strings besides the Jazz Flats or the Acoustic Phosphor Bronze strings. I love the PB344 Powerbass Rounds (.047/.068/.080/.107)

 

 

This message has been edited by Dude on 02-22-2001 at 08:55 AM

[Mr. Wise Man]

Mr. T:

 

I'm currently using a slightly customized set of Pyramid stainless steel roundwounds (no extra charge, but I am in Germany and deal direct): EAD&G are from their Super Long 5 Light set, and the .120 B is from their Super Long 5 Extra Light set. However, I notice that the web page of the American distributor ( http://www.pyramidstrings.com ) doesn't list nearly as many strings as are in the German catalog , including the .120 B( http://www.pyramid-saiten.de ). In the States, I used to used DR Low Riders; there's no 5 string set with the gauges I like, but I used to order a light four string set with a .120 B and there was no price difference (again, dealing direct).

[brianrost]

I have one 35" bass (Reverend) and I can't really feel the difference. I mean the bass plays and sounds good, but without a 34" version to put side by side I don't know how much can be attributed to the scale length.

 

I also own a Dano (30") and a Supro (25"!!!) and while they feel a LOT different to play they are also so different overall from my other basses that again it's hard to make any comparison based on scale alone.

 

For those of you (like me) who also play upright with it's longer scale and fatter neck, why would you find a 35" or longer scale uncomfortable on a bass guitar?

[Ed Friedland]

Originally posted by brianrost:

I have one 35" bass (Reverend) and I can't really feel the difference. I mean the bass plays and sounds good, but without a 34" version to put side by side I don't know how much can be attributed to the scale length.

 

I also own a Dano (30") and a Supro (25"!!!) and while they feel a LOT different to play they are also so different overall from my other basses that again it's hard to make any comparison based on scale alone.

 

For those of you (like me) who also play upright with it's longer scale and fatter neck, why would you find a 35" or longer scale uncomfortable on a bass guitar?

 

It's funny, you'd think being used to a 41" scale I'd have no trouble with a 35" but I don't relate the feel of upright to electric in any way. So when I play electric bass I have a set of muscle memories that conform to 34". When I play upright, I'm used to standard 3/4 scale which I believe is 41 1/2". I had an upright with a 43" string length and I never felt comfortable on it. As soon as I got back on a 41 1/2" scale I felt immediately comfortable. I guess I'm just a sensitive guy! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

 

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[Jeff Addicott]

One thing I've noticed: increased scale length most certainly isn't a fix-all! I just tried a 35" DeArmond Pilot 5-string, and the low B was terrible. Maybe it was the strings. The setup certainly wasn't very good.

 

At any rate, that all gets back to what I'm talking about. An extra inch between nut and bridge is no substitute for careful wood selection and solid construction.

 

I would advise buyers to beware as more and more overseas manufacturers tout a 35" scale alongside their "active" electronics, "exotic" woods, "die-cast" hardware, and other superficial "features" that are used to spice up an otherwise very mediocre instrument.

[ozzie-boof]

Hi all,

 

I have a Yamaha Nathan East Signature (34 inch scale) and it has an excellent B string which fits in well with the other 4 strings. Hate to say this though - at the moment the B string on the Yamaha is superior to that of the B string on the brand new tealburst 35 inch scale MTD 535 I received from Bass Central today. Then again a minor setup is definitely in order after it's long haul across the US and over the Pacific Ocean to Sydney, Australia.

 

Wayde Carter

Sydney, Australia

[virtual.rayprodigy.net]

I have 3 5 strings that are 34",two have what I consider to be damn good B strings as well as good overall response and the 3rd is okay but could be quite good when I get around to putting some better pickups in it.I also have 2 35" instruments,a 5 and a 6,and they sound very good as well,with a slightly more taut feel and sound.I think the quality of construction is as much if not more of a factor as far as the 5th string is concerned.I've also found that the tapered core B string sets such as Warwick Black Label give me better results as far as strings go.