The Pick

[Ed Friedland]

While scorned by some, the pick is a legitimate approach to bass playing, and lots of people play that way. What advantages does the pick give you? What's your favorite shape and thickness of pick? Is it really just for rockers?

[Mr. Wise Man]

Have you never heard of Steve Swallow, or was "are picks only for rockers" merely a rhetorical question?

 

I don't think that pick players are lesser players by any means, as many of my favorites have used picks. I don't, however, mostly because I think that you can emulate plectrum technique with your fingers very effectively indeed, and the opposite of that isn't true.

[ilan]

WiseMan said - "I think that you can emulate plectrum technique with your fingers very effectively indeed, and the opposite of that isn't true" -

 

Just listen to Carol Kaye's playing on The Four Tops' "Bernadette" - she did that with a pick.

[Mr. Wise Man]

That's a whole 'nother can of worms. There are many folks who say that Carole Kaye didn't play that part.

[BassLand]

Ilan

 

That is James Jamerson playing bass on the Four Tops "Bernadette", using just his fingers (RH pointing finger to pluck the notes).

 

BassLand

 

This message has been edited by BassLand on 02-15-2001 at 12:07 PM

[CraigLeyhFrameBand.com]

I think there are times for both. I use a pick on about 2-3 songs a night. I like standard shape xtra heavy.

 

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Thank you,

Craig S. Leyh

CraigLeyh@FrameBand.com

 

This message has been edited by CraigLeyh@FrameBand.com on 02-01-2001 at 04:39 PM

[5not4]

Haven't seen anyone actually answer your question yet, Ed, so here goes.

 

When I started playing the bass I used a pick. My influences at the time where Gene Simmons, Dennis Dunaway (Alice Cooper), Tom Hamilton, and such. At that time I felt that rock music should be played with a pick and had no desire to learn with my fingers.

 

As I grew musically, and some would say mutured, I started to play more pop and top40 oriented music and slowly progressed to using my fingers and I got better as the years went by.

 

Now a days, I probably use my fingers 70% of the time and I'm playing Classic rock kind of music. Go figure!! I will say that I can pick faster than finger. Maybe because I started with the pick and become very proficient with double picking. I hope this doesn't start a flame-war for speed. I've seen this occur a couple times on the TBL forum.

 

I like to use a Dunlop graphite, small pointed jazz style, 60mm and 73mm (I think those are the sizes)

 

P.S. Chris Squire was also a major influence so I will always be endured(sp?) to the pick.

[Ed Friedland]

Wise man, yes it was rhetorical. I know Steve Swallow's playing very well, and he amazes me with his ability to create an upright bass sound with a pick!

 

I must respectfully request that we avoid the "Carol Kaye played on Bernadette" theme. Let's not go there. However, she IS a major influence on all bassists that use the pick.

 

Sometimes I like to use all upstrokes (strange I know). While it doesn't give you the power of the downstroke, there is a tonal quality that I enjoy for certain tunes. It works well when muting with the palm and playing a "Ray Price Shuffle" groove.

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

Like SNOT4 sez..about Dunlop's.. Ken Smith makes a graphite pick also that does lend itself well to a great 'Picked' tone.. pricey little suckers.

 

I will use a thick Jim Dunlop nylon pick.. I take a razor to the edge and sorta feather it very slightly, this adds kinda of ripping tone to the note.. very effective for lead players as well...

 

Don't remember who said it.. but it really is 'in the fingers' though.

 

Mo

[BassLand]

At 13 I used a pick because I did not know any better (Figuring the BASS guitar was played just like the guitar). An organist named Ray McNair auditioned me for his Jazz trio and when I tried to play jazz bass with a pick, he snatched my bass from me and told me "You don't play the bass like that... You have to walk the bass using your two right hand fingers" and then he proceeded to burn out this walking Jazz bassline. For me it was a life lesson and I abandoned the pick immediately! Later I also learned to use one finger like many upright bass players use. Later still I adopted using three fingers to get fast triplets accomplished. Today my RH techniques are any combination of the above except for the pick.

 

BTW, I think the name is 5(FIVE)not4(FOUR) not SNOT4

 

 

 

This message has been edited by BassLand on 02-02-2001 at 12:24 PM

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

>>BTW, I think the name is 5(FIVE)not4(FOUR) not SNOT4<<

 

Ooppss..... my apology to 5not4.

 

You are correct Bassland... A Bass should be plucked not picked...... Nice web site.. I've been it few times..

 

Mo

[BassLand]

Thank You Mo,

 

 

 

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BassLand

http://www.BassLand.net

[Ed Friedland]

>>A Bass should be plucked not picked.<<

 

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but one needs to be wary of the consequences of making pronouncements. Life has a way of stepping in and providing lessons for us when we get too rigid in our thinking! Maybe you will accidentally burn your fingertips on a hot pot and have a gig that night, then what? Break out the pick! (I hope this doesn't happen to you!) My point is that while preferences are certainly valid (I play with my fingers 98.99999 percent of the time), it's good to leave room for options. If I take a gig and suddenly there's a tune that they want pick style on, I need to know how to do it, or else {in arrogant voice} "You'll never work in this town again!"

[g.]

Started out with the thumb, tried a pick and gave up until I could execute with power and accuracy with two fingers and thumb. Sometimes I work a third finger in now, and spent a bit of time getting comfortable using a medium-heavy pick on occasion.

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<

[ilan]

I use the Jim Dunlop 1mm nylon pick (the black one). A guitar player gave one to me some 15 years ago, and immediately it felt right. Before that I was using the Nick Lucas heavy - they were CLEAR plastic, and if you dropped one on the floor you could forget about ever finding it.

 

I'm a 99% pick player. When I was 14 I fractured my right hand, and with the cast I could not bend my wrist for finger playing. 24 years later, I still cannot play a song fingerstyle unless there's a pick stuck somewhere under the pickguard. It's a mental thing :-)

 

For me, the real advantage of the pick is that I always sounded different from other bass players around. Finding my own voice was so much easier.

 

Last week I mentioned here 'Bernadette' and Carol Kaye, and was asked not to open a can of worms. I'll respect it, of course, but evidently there's a story here that I'm not aware of, so if anyone can email me privately with the details, I'll be thankful.

[BassLand]

Ilan,

 

Your email address is not in your profile so you would need to contact me through my website below. If you look around you may find it unnecessary though. Also, there is a book outlining James Jamerson's body of work called "Standing in the Shadows Of Motown" ISBN 0-88188-852-4

 

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BassLand

http://BassLand.net

 

 

 

This message has been edited by BassLand on 02-03-2001 at 11:23 AM

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

Originally posted by Ed Friedland:

>>A Bass should be plucked not picked.<<

 

>>Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but one needs to be wary of the consequences of making pronouncements.<<

 

My intention was not to make an edict or pronouncement.. in fact a post or two above I made a statement about using a pick.... I think that they can be very effective in adding certain textures... I don't advocate the use of a plectrum as the number one approach... but heck yeah!! Ya'd be better off if ya kept one in yer pocket.

 

 

Mo http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif

 

This message has been edited by Mo Thumper on 02-03-2001 at 01:46 PM

[BassLand]

Mo,

 

If the scenario Ed suggested (and you quoted) did occur, I would be more likely to call a sub rather than play poorly on a job by playing with a pick, something that I do not do well enough to feel professionally confident. 1 job is only one job.

[g.]

WHATevah...

 

I think it's funny that to pick or not to pick gets to be a religious issue among some :  }}}}

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<  hates auto-smilies. reminds him of prefab drum tracks ;  }

[ilan]

Thanks BassLand - very informative site, I think I got the story now. BTW my email is now in my profile.

[Ed Friedland]

>>>If the scenario Ed suggested (and you quoted) did occur, I would be more likely to call a sub rather than play poorly on a job by playing with a pick, something that I do not do well enough to feel professionally confident. 1 job is only one job.<<<

 

Sure, that makes sense. My personal approach has always been to attempt to cover all the basses. That said, I guess I better start by carrying a pick with me, 'cause I never do!

[BassLand]

Ed,

 

You know the funny thing is I always have a pick and a drum key with me but they are for the guitarist and drummer respectively (if they need one). For a while I used to have a whole display case full of picks from a music store I used to manage (I probably still have a few dozen some where around here).

 

PS You're welcome Ilan.

 

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BassLand

http://BassLand.net

 

 

 

This message has been edited by BassLand on 02-03-2001 at 06:11 PM

[Ed Friedland]

One thing about picks I learned as a guitar player...it doesn't matter how many you buy, it always comes down to the ONE pick you have left, and if you lose it, you're screwed.

[cornbread_medhotmail.com]

Picks yield a more uniform sound from note to note where fingerstyle produces more tonal differences even on the same note. I use picks on the fast songs that require articulation of the notes, but I still love the 32nd notes with fingers. I admit, I'm a huge Maiden fan. But, I see no shame in playing with a pick. It's always personal opinion.

[lrbreez]

I use both picks and fingers equally. Berry Oakley (Allman Brothers Band) used picks. Listen to "Blue Sky" ("Eat a Peach") for some good pick work that has a finger quality to it. Also to "If 6 Was 9" (especially the fast walking bass lines)-that was a pick.

Buddy

[jeremy_dup1]

I have been a two fingers player since the day I picked up the bass in 1966. It seemed like the most logical way to play and I liked the sound.

In the seventies I saw Larry Graham play live and heard Louis Johnson on records and so I added thumb playing to my repertoire.

Also in the seventies I took some lessons from Carol Kaye and learned her pick technique. The very first time I was asked to do a professional studio gig, the producer asked me to play with a pick. Of course I didn't go on to riches and fame because I didn't get called back, but I don't think it was for my lack of pick technique.

 

A few years later when asked to use a pick by another producer, I asked if he could at least listen to me play with my fingers before asking me to play with a pick. He listened to my playing and then dropped the subject. Of course, he didn't call me back either so I'll never know about that one either.

 

In my rash youth, I once put my hand through a window and had my hand heavily bandaged for a month. Having pick technique greatly helped me get through that month.

 

one finger, two fingers, three fingers, thumbs, picks, they are all tools for getting a large variety of sounds and notes. I use either Jim Dunlop tortex (the green ones) or lately the purple one with alligators on them.

[Ed Friedland]

I can remember a time in the 80's when I had a bad flare up of tendonitis. I had to stop playing for a couple of weeks, and when I came back, I could only play with a pick for a while. It wasn't fun, but I could do it. It really changes the way you approach a tune, especially if you usually play it with your fingers!

[Ed Friedland]

Well, tonight I played with my New Orleans R&B band, Lazy Ed & The Strat-O-Loungers ( www.lazy-ed.com ) and I found a pick on the floor so I made myself play a few tunes with it. It was a fun change, and it was perfect timing as we burst into a spur of the moment version of the theme from The Munsters! What a great tune, our guitarist nailed that sucker!

[bootyquake]

It's so weird to hear people being dogmatic about technique. "Playing with a pick is only for Wayne Newton cover bands." "You know, only deranged cattle-rapers use their fingers in punk songs." "Dude, light-gauge strings are for woosies."

 

Carol Kaye and Joe Osborn play with the pick, and their signature is on more music than most any of us will play. I myself have used the pick in sessions where I needed a more aggressive sound on the song, or if I wanted the scrape of a pick attack. If the song needs something else, I try to use that. So who cares how you get the sound? Tony Levin once put a diaper under his strings to get really deep bass on a track. Should we have a pro- or anti-diaper technique forum?

 

Bottom line--If I could only sound like Bootsy/Jaco/Oteil/Duck/Marcus/insertnamehere I would hit the bass with a dead fish to do it! Technique is only a means to an end.

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

I have had tendonitis for the past 6 years and have only been playing bass for one year(guitar for 25 years). I am having trouble playing with just my fingers because of the hand position my teacher has taught me. It is the worst possible angle for someone with tendonitis. I've decided to just play with a pick until my problem gets better. I love the dynamics you can get out of a pick.

 

I've seen Tony Levin also play with long metal things on two fingers that he slaps the strings with. If you've ever seen the Peter Gabriel concert video "Secret World Live" you will know what I'm talking about. What is that ?