So I'm in Best Buy yesterday, and I see....

[Chip McDonald]

... this big sign above a display of blank cd's that says: "dubster: one who feels burning a cd is an act of making music" This made me highly agitated and I had to leave the store and not think about it. Because I know THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE PLANET WHO PROBABLY LITERALLY REALLY THINK THIS WAY. Whatever.

[Gtoledo3]

Wow , I'm realy saddened to hear this...........................If the religious minority manipulates companies and media through boycott, what's stopping us? Also, this has always bothered me-isn't the term "ripping" kind of crass? Like "rip-off"

[thoughtintruder]

Doesn't the cd crakle when you burn it? I mean plastic can make some neat noises ( tho subtle) when it burns.... :)

[meccajay]

Dont worry, it gets worse, much much worse!!! Check this article... NY TIMES: February 25, 2002 A Boxed Set in One File? Online Music Finds a Way By NEIL STRAUSS There are few issues that enrage record labels and performers more than the downloading of songs off the Internet without permission or payment. Their problem may be getting a lot worse. A visit to a Web site with a fiercely loyal following indicates that a growing number of people are downloading not just individual songs but entire albums, cover artwork and liner notes included, in less time and with less hassle than it would take to download the songs individually. The fans are relying not on new technology, but on one that existed before the advent of MP3's, the format that allows music to be compressed into smaller files. They are using zip files, which compress one or more files into a single, easier-to-manage one. Thus 13 songs and the images of a CD cover and booklet can be saved as one file that can be easily downloaded. Fans are loading these zip files on regular music- exchanging services but disguising them as ordinary MP3 audio files. On Audiogalaxy, a free music-sharing software and Internet site that has become the center of zip file trading, there are not just single albums by acts like Pink Floyd, Britney Spears and Creed, but entire boxed sets, like a three-CD collection of Stevie Ray Vaughan's music. "I don't even bother looking for songs anymore, because all you have to do is type in `zip,' and there are like 2,000 matches," said a sophomore at the College of Charleston in South Carolina, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "All you do is open WinZip, and you have the whole CD. It's a joke." Most music executives remain unaware of this new wrinkle in downloading. Fred Croshal, the general manager of Maverick Records, said he had never heard of fans exchanging albums as zip files. "The tech kids are moving much faster than we are," he said. "By the time we agree on anything, it's already seven years old." Even officials at the Recording Industry Association of America, which led the music industry offensive against Napster, said the practice was new to them. Amy Weiss, the group's spokeswoman, said, however, that the organization was not surprised. Few Internet users trade albums as zip files, but the practice appears to be growing quickly. Searches two weeks ago on the Audiogalaxy site, audiogalaxy.com, turned up 2,000 zip files; this week there are more than 3,000. These numbers, though, are minuscule compared with the hundreds of thousands of MP3 song files on Audiogalaxy. (The recording industry association has already threatened legal action against Audiogalaxy for allowing the transfer of standard MP3 files of copyrighted music.) Of course when Napster started in the late 1990's, it was just the strange hobby of a handful of technology-savvy college-age fans. But ideas travel far and fast on the Internet. In just over a year six million people across the globe were Napster users. Peter Paterno, a lawyer who represents Metallica and Dr. Dre, both of whom sued Napster, said he was surprised and angered to hear about the growing use of zip files. He added that downloading these zipped packets of songs could be dangerous, since a virus file could easily be bundled in with the other files. "If I were in charge, I would put viruses everywhere on these services," he said. "That would stop Little Johnny from stealing this stuff." Fans find complete albums on Audiogalaxy by typing the word zip in the search window. Audiogalaxy then retrieves a handful of song titles with zip in the title (like "Zip-a-Dee- Doo-Dah"), followed by hundreds of zip files of complete albums, from the obscure to the popular, from Judy Collins to Metallica. (Every one of Metallica's albums is there.) A fan then runs a program like WinZip, which most computers use to unpackage downloaded programs, and presto, there's the full CD. Fans feeling particularly ambitious can even burn the songs onto a CD, print out the artwork, and slip the whole thing into a jewel case. For those who put the CD's online in the first place, zip files are not as easy to create as standard MP3's. Users must load every song onto a hard drive as an MP3 file, scan the CD artwork (or find it online) and then run all this through a program like WinZip, which packages the MP3's and the image files together. And since Audiogalaxy exchanges only music files, the zip file must then be disguised to look like an MP3. Judging from past Internet experiences, if the use of zip files grows, it won't be long before someone spreads a free program made especially for converting entire albums into zip files. But some fans of file-trading services say that zip files will never approach the popularity of MP3's, chiefly because some like their music one song at a time.

[coren]

[quote]Originally posted by thoughtintruder: [b]Doesn't the cd crakle when you burn it? I mean plastic can make some neat noises ( tho subtle) when it burns.... :) [/b][/quote]you can put one under each of your feet then slide around on a floor... it sounds sorta neat. and no cds dont crackle when burned... the get all bendy then eventually catch on fire, getting more bendy. then i blow out the flame and poke the bendy part into a neat shape. really, i do this :) so zip files eh meccajay... i never know what side to pick on this one... as a musician i hate the fact people would so carelessly take our music for free... but i also hate how the record labels stomp on the faces of these little guys then turn around and do it themselves, but for profit. it all makes me sick. even i am sometimes guilty of burning music (out of 300 cds i have, about 10 are burns) but only if a friend has something cool and i wanna check it out more & im broke.... if its good i usually buy it later.. if it sucks.. i light it on fire! :) :D

[meccajay]

Coren, that sounds just like me, I just mention a new CD to one of my DJ buddies, and they drop off a burned copy to me days later....free! I enjoy the "get back" factor for the huge greedy corporate labels, mixed in with just a sprinkle of guilt for all the "little guys" who's music is being downloaded too...

[Franknputer]

Zip files, huh? How long did it take the RIAA to figure that one out? :rolleyes: So, what now? Massive retaliation against WinZip?? Compression royalties? hmmm.... How about better product? :eek:

[MrKnobs]

[quote]Originally posted by thoughtintruder: [b]Doesn't the cd crakle when you burn it? [/b][/quote]CDs crackle in a spectacular fashion in a microwave. Try it! Terry D.

[Dan South]

Cool! I'll have to download some of those free Metallica albums and share them with all of my friends! ;) SRV, I'll pay for. Metallica's another story. :D

[RABid]

I made the mistake of breaking a CD once in my office to insure no one could read it. Little pieces of metal foil went everywhere. What a mess. Robert

[KHAN]

[quote]Originally posted by Dan South: [b]Cool! I'll have to download some of those free Metallica albums and share them with all of my friends! ;) SRV, I'll pay for. Metallica's another story. :D [/b][/quote]I'm sure Stevie will be happy to hear that. :eek: :rolleyes: :p ;)

[alphajerk]

"""Peter Paterno, a lawyer who represents Metallica and Dr. Dre, both of whom sued Napster, said he was surprised and angered to hear about the growing use of zip files. He added that downloading these zipped packets of songs could be dangerous, since a virus file could easily be bundled in with the other files. "If I were in charge, I would put viruses everywhere on these services," he said. "That would stop Little Johnny from stealing this stuff." """ thats one of the scariest comments because a virus cant be contained to people who DL unauthorized music. but with comments like that, i sure hope he has some sort of virus protection on his network.

[Chip McDonald]

Hmmm. It's curious, because it would seem no one has caught on to what bothered me so much about that sign. It's not the issue of burning cd's in itself, but the notion that that passes as "making music". In other words, I'm just waiting for that faithful day when I hear someone in front of me say something like "oh yeah, my friend Bob, he's a musician. He doesn't play an instrument, but he burns cd's a lot". After all, everything passes as "participating" in this politically correct world....

[michael saulnier]

[quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b]Hmmm. It's curious, because it would seem no one has caught on to what bothered me so much about that sign. It's not the issue of burning cd's in itself, but the notion that that passes as "making music". In other words, I'm just waiting for that faithful day when I hear someone in front of me say something like "oh yeah, my friend Bob, he's a musician. He doesn't play an instrument, but he burns cd's a lot". After all, everything passes as "participating" in this politically correct world....[/b][/quote]You mean like: "Sure I'm a musician"... "I do my own re-mixes all the time... I rock!" guitplayer

[gtrmac]

"dubster: one who feels burning a cd is an act of making music" "wanker........." The world seems to have always been filled with people who labored under various illusions. Through all this only a few have ever had the devotion and discipline to create real art. I pity the children whose parents were either too ignorant or lazy to instill any values in their children but I can only continue to try and teach my two sons what real music is and how difficult it is to learn to create it on a musical instrument with others. I can understand how something like this would upset Chip since he is a music teacher. In the future there will still be only a few among many that can make magic with a piece of wood and some wires. Maybe some of them will ahve been Chip's students. There will also be a whole horde of fools I guess who think that ripping a CD is a creative act. I pity the fools.

[ernest828]

This topic really pisses me OFF! Anyone who burns CDs without paying for it is stealing. Thats it. Any artist who says, "You can burn all my stuff."... should be excommunicated. I don`t understand this mentality. Its sort of like Terrorism. There is no point. It hurts us all. Peace, Ernest

[Gtoledo3]

Respect of someone's intellectual property is neccessary for our society to work. Exceptions can really add up- the movie industry is over the barrel too... But they're too stupid to know it. Right now the movie industry is trying to stop making actual "film" reels for the movie theatres ( because of the expense), and moving towards high quality digital. That sounds like a real good idea.... :) How much more will it cost them in the long run?

[where02190]

[quote]Originally posted by ernest828@aol.com: [b]This topic really pisses me OFF! Anyone who burns CDs without paying for it is stealing. Thats it. Any artist who says, "You can burn all my stuff."... should be excommunicated. I don`t understand this mentality. Its sort of like Terrorism. There is no point. It hurts us all. Peace, Ernest[/b][/quote]Stealing is stealing, no matter whom you think it's from.

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by ernest828@aol.com: [b]This topic really pisses me OFF! Anyone who burns CDs without paying for it is stealing. Thats it. Any artist who says, "You can burn all my stuff."... should be excommunicated. [/b][/quote]I agree that taking something without permission is stealing, but I disagree with the "excommunication" idea. If someone owns something (such as their music / copyrights) and wants to give it away freely, that's their right. Some composers even put their songs into "public domain" bacause they want people to have free access to it. I see that as being no different than someone who writes a software application and releases it as "freeware". [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com "Juarez Phil?"

[fv_dup1]

Hi, I'm just stating my opinion here. I think what is happening today is much like when blank cassettes were first introduced and were being used to record music much like CDR's are being used today. Although not to the same extreme as today and the downloading and burning but, at that time, the record companies had similar reactions (although not as strong) to the cassette. I believe that until the record companies come up with some new form of copy protection and distribution schemes, they won't be able to stop what is going on. They won't be able to stop it completely afterwards either. Once one Napster is closed down, another will come up, and then another. They need another way. There are too many people which don't see the harm caused by downloading and not buying the CD's. Don't get me wrong, I truly believe in the artists getting paid for their work and I do buy CD's. Suing the Napsters of this world and crying the blues about it and trying to educate will help a little bit it is only scratching the surface. I don't know what the answer is (the multi-million dollar question) but it will be impossible to completely stop copying of artists CD's. :( fv

[gtrmac]

The difference with cassettes was that the copy was far inferior to the original LP in terms of sound quality. Digital copies are identical to the original in this respect.

[Deathtoallwhoopposeme]

[quote]Originally posted by GT3: [b]Respect of someone's intellectual property is neccessary for our society to work. Exceptions can really add up- the movie industry is over the barrel too... But they're too stupid to know it. Right now the movie industry is trying to stop making actual "film" reels for the movie theatres ( because of the expense), and moving towards high quality digital. That sounds like a real good idea.... :) How much more will it cost them in the long run?[/b][/quote]Yea, get rid of the reels that you need $100,000 machines to play them on, and deliver it in some digital format that can easily be ripped or copied..New releases will be on the net, the same day they come out and someone will be dowloading it... and burning his new DVD that night.. and watching the movie that came out that day in the theaters in his home theater....It's stupid, how easy it is to rip DVD's, download a whole DVD, burn it and watch it....Movie industry is in for a shock in a few years

[Franknputer]

[quote]Originally posted by gtrmac@hotmail.com: [b]The difference with cassettes was that the copy was far inferior to the original LP in terms of sound quality. Digital copies are identical to the original in this respect.[/b][/quote]Except that when we talk about people ripping & trading music, we're actually talking about mp3s, which are of inferior sound quality - they're just close enough for most people. (And a good quality cassette, properly recorded, was pretty darn good too.) After all, even with digital copy protection there isn't anything to stop you from patching the soundcard back to itself. It would be a bit lossy, but more so than mp3? Probably not. I think that maybe the industry should do a bit more to promote a taste for better quality and a respect for peoples' right to be paid for their artistic and supporting efforts, rather than trying to police every little thing that people do with product they've paid for. And they could start by actually giving artists more of their due, IMHO - that would lend more credibility to their arguments that they are "just looking out for the artists".

[BassGuy]

I can't stand Best Buy. I went there once, found what I was looking for pretty quickly, and then found about 1000 people in line ahead of me. They were BLASTING, and I do mean REALLY F*IN LOUD BLASTING, the world's most obnoxious teenbopper crowd. I used a handy comment card to drop a note in the box: "Please have more people handling checkout at your busiest time. And please turn down the music. On second thought, don't bother because I won't buy anything here anywhere." I set down what I would have bought, dropped off the card and got the hell out of the store. I left my name and contact info, but (no surprise) got no response back.

[G. Ratte]

[quote] It's curious, because it would seem no one has caught on to what bothered me so much about that sign. It's not the issue of burning cd's in itself, but the notion that that passes as "making music". [/quote]Eh...man, it's probably just some not-very-bright marketing guy's thing, it'll be gone in a month. I think it'd be pretty cool if bands were to set up say, PayPal accounts or whatever, from their web pages and you could donate some cash if you've been leeching their tunes and wanna pony up. They'd probably be doing a lot better for themselves to get a buck or two directly, instead of the 25 cents or whatever if you'd bought their physical album instead..AFTER they recoup, assuming they're in the 5% that even manage that. I've always been recording bottom-feeder stuff, and most folks are just giving their tunes out on their web sites these days, or they'll sell you a CD-R for a couple bucks if you see their show. Not like a few years ago when they'd scrape up $1500 and press CDs and end up with boxes and boxes sitting around somebody's bedroom floor. People seem to be wising up to the fact that there just ain't no money at this end. Anything that kills the mini-rock-star-smalltown-Napoleon-complex is a good thing, IMO. G. Ratte'

[copacapripacbell.net]

"I enjoy the "get back" factor" So you think you are hurting only the record label?

[russrags]

Every day I recieve about 10 e-mail's, from companies trying to sell me a machine that will COPY DVDs for FREE. What's up with that ????? Isn't there SOMEBODY going after these people ????

[waveyl]

i agree with all of you who say "downloading music is stealing"...but...is stealing wrong? an obvious answer...or is it... i only download music of bands that are signed to major labels...why? well because first off those bands are easier to find and download. but also because major labels to a certain degree stole my childhood, by telling me what to listen to, what to wear, and how to act...look at all the 7 year old Spears lookalikes...it makes me sad...and angry, so i'll do anything to make those damn AOL-Time-Warner-Turner (my favourite corporate names) labels loose money. Happy downloading~! :p

[Danny M]

[quote]Originally posted by waveyl: [b]but also because major labels to a certain degree stole my childhood, by telling me what to listen to, what to wear, and how to act...[/b][/quote]I'm going to apologize in advance for this seeming a little biting, but... Are you really saying that it never occurred to you to choose to think for yourself? The "off" button that a fair number of us talk about really does exist. Your post sounds strangely surreal to me. It's as if you didn't feel that your parents were authoritarian ogres to be rebelled against (like some previous generations), but instead you felt that it was the large music companies. Maybe it's just me, but big music has never had any actual [b]authority[/b] over my tastes in music and clothing... -Danny

[waveyl]

yes, indeed you got me. i've always thought for myself, and listend to music that none of my friends listned to (jazz, classic rock...) i did write what i wrote though, for the 7 year olds out there who basicaly almost don't have a choice but to listen to MTV, partly because they don't know exactly what is going on. also ,the truth is, i only download music to get a taste of it, then if i like it, i go out and buy the cd...my point was, that if the 7 year olds are gonna listen to Spears, i'd feel better that they download the albums rather then go out and buy them...the girl has enough money...and should be...deleted from this world. :cool: lates