OT- Living In The Past

[phaeton]

...and no, i'm not talking about Jethro Tull. In any event, i apologize in advance for the phrenetic musings that follow:

 

Don't know if "living in the past" is the right term for it, since it's not always time-based (but often is). Internally i refer to it as "nostalgia" but i'm not sure if that's entirely correct either. It's something that is somewhat vague and specific at the same time, and while i've suspected that other people experience this too, i've never really seen anyone come out and own up to it. Anyways, it boils down to this:

 

1) Paying meticulous and undeserved attention to the (otherwise unimportant) details around something. Sometimes at the expense of attention to that something.

 

2) (consciously) allowing my imagination to piece all the meticulous details together into an entire artificial environment that is credible and tangible. Certain things, such as stories, movies or even just colour combinations, all have a feeling associated with them, and a point of reference which i can sometimes see the connection, or sometimes not.

 

Well, ok.. now i'm losing y'all. How about some examples:

 

1) I read Lord Of The Rings. Mind you, most any J.R.R.Tolkien requires some effort to stay on task with the actual plot. But there were several times throughout the book where I stopped, and realised that i had no idea what had been going on in the struggle for those poor Hobbits for the last three chapters, but gollygosh did i have this beautiful, wonderful fantasy world inside my head, in which i could feel the sun and breeze, i could hear the songs of the elves, and smell the trees and the road. I could close my eyes and experience their world just as they would.

 

2) Decades. When i was growing up, around the mid-1980s or so i had this fascination with the wholesome, simple, conservative, politically correct, albeit "safe" Father Knows Best image of the 1950s and 1960s. I listened to lots of sappy Doo Wop, Surf, Rockabilly and the sort. I wore T-shirts with Buddy Holly, Dion, or Chuck Berry. I watched Alfred Hitchcock, My Three Sons, Dennis The Menace, the Donna Reed show, and even Leave It To Beaver on Nick At Night. In my little Jr. High world, i was seemingly immersed in some black n white TV Land world. It wasn't really a "Nostalgia", it might have been a "longing for", but it all allowed me to enjoy the whole concept (i think) on a level that is different than might be, um... natural

 

Although I got teased a lot in school about having a "Jelly Roll w/ a DA" hairstyle str8 outta 1958, I have no regrets. The music I listened to became useful when I picked up the guitar later. Ironically, I was simultaneously at the forefront of my science studies, and this segment of my life is also when I was the most prolific computer hacker (programmer) that i'd ever been.

 

That was the most extreme example of a "fascination with a specific decade", but each decade, from 1910 through the present has a certain, specific and unique "feel" to it, that can be referenced by some of its "paraphernalia". I frequently go through little obsessive cycles of certain periods of time that become interesting to me, whether I actually lived in them or not. Whether they actually took place, or not. There are also various bodily sensations when i consider Medieval Times, or the 1830s, or the Revolutionary War era. Stuff like that.

 

3) While we're talking about t.v. shows... I mentioned last month about my enjoyment of Mystery Science Theater 3000. As we discussed earlier, the basic concept of the show is a guy and 4 robots are marooned in a Satellite above earth, and forced to watch horrible movies by some mad scientists, who monitor their minds. The subjects can survive the horrible movies by making jokes, riffs, and puns throughout it.

 

My enjoyment of MST3K is manifold- For one, they are usually riffing on an older movie, anywhere from the 1940s up through the 1980s. See #2 about decade-related `nostalgia'. For two, MST3K is itself a time capsule- a product of the 1990s. See #2 again. Thirdly, the show is very 'handmade' and 'campy'. They were all amateur stand-up comedians turned into an entire film crew- we're talking a handful of people doing the work of a couple dozen, with a shoestring budget. The entire show is made of half-ass props and obvious special effects, and they know it. But i get an extra level of enjoyment out of this as well. Seeing the puppeteer rods on the robots, paint can lids turned into control deck buttons, and all the miniature model stuff gives it a very tangible, almost reassuring feeling.

 

The show itself as designed is entertaining enough, but all to often there are jokes going over my head because i'm paying to much attention to what they're using to hold the set together with! I have to watch most episodes several times to take it all in, but i think three or four simultaneous slabs o' nostalgia/fascination on top of each other (which is additive, mind you) the end result is much richer.

 

SpaceGhost Coast To Coast is a similar plight. Interesting as hell, how they chopped up some old Hanna Barbera cartoons and various things and made it look like they are interviewing real (and intriguing) people. It's cool because all of Space Ghost's presence is comprised of editing together about 20 different short sequences of animation in different combinations and voicing over it. Talk about making something out of nothing!

 

On top of this, the show is also a time capsule to the 1990s. What's interesting about the 'longing' feeling i get about these two items, is that i lived through the 1990s and i hated most of it. I was a despicably miserable, angry, hateful and hollow young man throughout most of that period of my life. In fact, I even caught a few episodes of SGC2C and MST3K during that time and was "blah, T.V. sucks.." I didn't actually watch either of these shows in their heyday. It's not like i *miss* the 1990s or anything

 

4) Some things where the details or the "feeling" supersedes the whole point. I recently discovered that the only reason i used to listen to instrumental surf music was because of the mental images and feelings of `fun in the sun' and such. There are some badass riffs in some of that stuff, but i'll be the first to admit that a lot of it gets to be downright redundant and repetetetetive.

 

Various bits of classical music builds an imaginary world in my head too, but i can only listen to so much of it sometimes.

 

There are sometimes where I notice that I pick up the guitar and strum or pick at random things just to hear a guitar. There's no point in my playing at that moment in time, i just feel like hearing Am arpeggiated 10000 times in a row with brand new strings and enough reverb to cloak a battleship, occasionally, with some lazy wang-bar dives.

 

The unfortunate thing, is that sometimes the "stuff around something" can drive me to half-heartedly pursue that something, even though i'm *only* interested in its side effects. This can be good, or it can be bad, but i think that it sets me up for a lot of failure and causes a lot of my creative/imaginative output to be 'mediocre' by other people's standards. i am enjoying it quite a bit, on many "unnatural" levels, but others may not. Since i've long given up trying to explain it, it is doubtful that anyone sees or understands my motivations. Furthermore, 100% of what i've said above is pretty much all in my head. It's my own, private carnival ride. I wish i could share it, and though i've sometimes tried, i cannot.

 

Crazy? Probably not. The sad thing is, the older i get, the less frequent and the less intense it gets. Some of this might be good (a little easier for me to hold down a job, these days) but its immersion is something i've missed for a number of years.

 

As Mats says,

 

Discuss.

[Phait]

That was pretty long, I was waiting for you to burst out and say JUST KIDDING AHHAHAH.

 

I think I see what you mean though... certain cultural bits of life that you feel a connection to but haven't really had before, because it gives you a similar feeling of something when you were a child, or of something you did treasure? Is that right?

[LiveMusic]

Originally posted by phaeton:

1) I read Lord Of The Rings. Mind you, most any J.R.R.Tolkien requires some effort to stay on task with the actual plot. But there were several times throughout the book where I stopped, and realised that i had no idea what had been going on in the struggle for those poor Hobbits for the last three chapters, but gollygosh did i have this beautiful, wonderful fantasy world inside my head, in which i could feel the sun and breeze, i could hear the songs of the elves, and smell the trees and the road. I could close my eyes and experience their world just as they would.

The mark of a great writer. Kudos to him.

[phaeton]

Yeah sorry everyone, it's longwinded as hell, and not entertaining or containing any funny punchlines or "J/K OMGWTFLOL!!!'

 

Me and my bigass pointless, thesis posts, makes me sound like someone else.

 

[Phait]

So am I right? I wanted confirmation so I could further discuss the topic.

[offramp]

phaeton, I think I know exactly how you feel, and what you mean. My mind spends a notable (and probably inordinate) amount of time pondering these things, too. It's a mind-boggling recipe of cultural elements and immediate perceptions; I think that each ingredient is used to simultaneously escape from and understand better the moment you're experiencing, and if you don't get enough resolution from one, you start adding or investigating others until you're either satisfied or have an "escape pod" in your mind.

 

I read a comment once that said 'music is the soundtrack to your life'. After that, I a) never quite looked at music the same way again, and b) understood it's purpose in my life a whole lot better, albeit not completely.

[phaeton]

Phait said:

I think I see what you mean though... certain cultural bits of life that you feel a connection to but haven't really had before, because it gives you a similar feeling of something

 

Well, yes and no. I feel a connection to these cultural bits, but in many cases it is completely artificial. I say artificial, because they aren't reminding me of any previous experiences (i.e. childhood) that i've had. Each "feeling" and "atmosphere" that is created is significantly unique to its trigger, but in ways that are hard to put into words, kinda like comparing the tastes and smells of oranges and lemons.

 

I think you're on the right track though- it is almost as if in the abscense of a real reference, my imagination creates this feeling and sensation in its place.

 

offramp said:

I think that each ingredient is used to simultaneously escape from and understand better the moment you're experiencing,..."escape pod" in your mind.

 

It mostly sounds like we're on the same page. I think a quest for understanding helps drive it, but at the same time it is something i entirely enjoy. It usually requires little to no effort to start and maintain the whole process, but i willingly encourage and permit it to take place whenever it crops up.

 

I agree that it's a bit of an "escape" too. *shrug*

 

Oh and btw Neil, Tolkien is a decent writer, yes Sometimes a bit too random and wordy though. (as if i've got a leg to stand on, eh?)

[Jon Doe]

phaeton sez----------> ...and no, i'm not talking about Jethro Tull. In any event, i apologize in advance for the phrenetic musings that follow:

 

Don't know if "living in the past" is the right term for it, since it's not always time-based (but often is). Internally i refer to it as "nostalgia" but i'm not sure if that's entirely correct either. It's something that is somewhat vague and specific at the same time, and while i've suspected that other people experience this too, i've never really seen anyone come out and own up to it. Anyways, it boils down to this:

 

1) Paying meticulous and undeserved attention to the (otherwise unimportant) details around something. Sometimes at the expense of attention to that something.

 

2) (consciously) allowing my imagination to piece all the meticulous details together into an entire artificial environment that is credible and tangible. Certain things, such as stories, movies or even just colour combinations, all have a feeling associated with them, and a point of reference which i can sometimes see the connection, or sometimes not.

 

Well, ok.. now i'm losing y'all. How about some examples:

 

1) I read Lord Of The Rings. Mind you, most any J.R.R.Tolkien requires some effort to stay on task with the actual plot. But there were several times throughout the book where I stopped, and realised that i had no idea what had been going on in the struggle for those poor Hobbits for the last three chapters, but gollygosh did i have this beautiful, wonderful fantasy world inside my head, in which i could feel the sun and breeze, i could hear the songs of the elves, and smell the trees and the road. I could close my eyes and experience their world just as they would.

 

2) Decades. When i was growing up, around the mid-1980s or so i had this fascination with the wholesome, simple, conservative, politically correct, albeit "safe" Father Knows Best image of the 1950s and 1960s. I listened to lots of sappy Doo Wop, Surf, Rockabilly and the sort. I wore T-shirts with Buddy Holly, Dion, or Chuck Berry. I watched Alfred Hitchcock, My Three Sons, Dennis The Menace, the Donna Reed show, and even Leave It To Beaver on Nick At Night. In my little Jr. High world, i was seemingly immersed in some black n white TV Land world. It wasn't really a "Nostalgia", it might have been a "longing for", but it all allowed me to enjoy the whole concept (i think) on a level that is different than might be, um... natural

 

Although I got teased a lot in school about having a "Jelly Roll w/ a DA" hairstyle str8 outta 1958, I have no regrets. The music I listened to became useful when I picked up the guitar later. Ironically, I was simultaneously at the forefront of my science studies, and this segment of my life is also when I was the most prolific computer hacker (programmer) that i'd ever been.

 

That was the most extreme example of a "fascination with a specific decade", but each decade, from 1910 through the present has a certain, specific and unique "feel" to it, that can be referenced by some of its "paraphernalia". I frequently go through little obsessive cycles of certain periods of time that become interesting to me, whether I actually lived in them or not. Whether they actually took place, or not. There are also various bodily sensations when i consider Medieval Times, or the 1830s, or the Revolutionary War era. Stuff like that.

 

3) While we're talking about t.v. shows... I mentioned last month about my enjoyment of Mystery Science Theater 3000. As we discussed earlier, the basic concept of the show is a guy and 4 robots are marooned in a Satellite above earth, and forced to watch horrible movies by some mad scientists, who monitor their minds. The subjects can survive the horrible movies by making jokes, riffs, and puns throughout it.

 

My enjoyment of MST3K is manifold- For one, they are usually riffing on an older movie, anywhere from the 1940s up through the 1980s. See #2 about decade-related `nostalgia'. For two, MST3K is itself a time capsule- a product of the 1990s. See #2 again. Thirdly, the show is very 'handmade' and 'campy'. They were all amateur stand-up comedians turned into an entire film crew- we're talking a handful of people doing the work of a couple dozen, with a shoestring budget. The entire show is made of half-ass props and obvious special effects, and they know it. But i get an extra level of enjoyment out of this as well. Seeing the puppeteer rods on the robots, paint can lids turned into control deck buttons, and all the miniature model stuff gives it a very tangible, almost reassuring feeling.

 

The show itself as designed is entertaining enough, but all to often there are jokes going over my head because i'm paying to much attention to what they're using to hold the set together with! I have to watch most episodes several times to take it all in, but i think three or four simultaneous slabs o' nostalgia/fascination on top of each other (which is additive, mind you) the end result is much richer.

 

SpaceGhost Coast To Coast is a similar plight. Interesting as hell, how they chopped up some old Hanna Barbera cartoons and various things and made it look like they are interviewing real (and intriguing) people. It's cool because all of Space Ghost's presence is comprised of editing together about 20 different short sequences of animation in different combinations and voicing over it. Talk about making something out of nothing!

 

On top of this, the show is also a time capsule to the 1990s. What's interesting about the 'longing' feeling i get about these two items, is that i lived through the 1990s and i hated most of it. I was a despicably miserable, angry, hateful and hollow young man throughout most of that period of my life. In fact, I even caught a few episodes of SGC2C and MST3K during that time and was "blah, T.V. sucks.." I didn't actually watch either of these shows in their heyday. It's not like i *miss* the 1990s or anything

 

4) Some things where the details or the "feeling" supersedes the whole point. I recently discovered that the only reason i used to listen to instrumental surf music was because of the mental images and feelings of `fun in the sun' and such. There are some badass riffs in some of that stuff, but i'll be the first to admit that a lot of it gets to be downright redundant and repetetetetive.

 

Various bits of classical music builds an imaginary world in my head too, but i can only listen to so much of it sometimes.

 

There are sometimes where I notice that I pick up the guitar and strum or pick at random things just to hear a guitar. There's no point in my playing at that moment in time, i just feel like hearing Am arpeggiated 10000 times in a row with brand new strings and enough reverb to cloak a battleship, occasionally, with some lazy wang-bar dives.

 

The unfortunate thing, is that sometimes the "stuff around something" can drive me to half-heartedly pursue that something, even though i'm *only* interested in its side effects. This can be good, or it can be bad, but i think that it sets me up for a lot of failure and causes a lot of my creative/imaginative output to be 'mediocre' by other people's standards. i am enjoying it quite a bit, on many "unnatural" levels, but others may not. Since i've long given up trying to explain it, it is doubtful that anyone sees or understands my motivations. Furthermore, 100% of what i've said above is pretty much all in my head. It's my own, private carnival ride. I wish i could share it, and though i've sometimes tried, i cannot.

 

Crazy? Probably not. The sad thing is, the older i get, the less frequent and the less intense it gets. Some of this might be good (a little easier for me to hold down a job, these days) but its immersion is something i've missed for a number of years.

 

As Mats says,

 

Discuss.

 

Jon Doe sez----------->What?