Martin Kantola Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Dear Gold-ears, any good advice? I urgently need what could be described as a few channels of the best microphone amplification money can buy? What I'm looking for is transparency and dynamics, but it could be either solid state or tubes. The application is critical acoustic recordings of various types of music, from very loud to quite soft, but never close-miked. We'll probably record in DSD, so RF can be an enemy but bandwidth is still needed. I'm asking you because it's quite difficult for me go and have a listen to all that's out there, thank you for your help! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP3 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Daking 4 channel is really nice, based on the old Trident A Range. Under 2k. Millennia, Great River, Massenburg.... make great stuff as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Fröberg Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Nice to have you aboard here, Martin! I've visited your studio a couple of times from Lafo (I've studied 2 years of sound engineering, and I'm in on my first on bass) and really enjoyed it! I'm sorry I can't help you on the mic-pres, though. I havent gotten to play with the really neat stuff myself. BTW, I've been wondering lately about your U87 copies, do you have them for sale, and at what price? I can't afford one now, but maybe someday.. - Bob Freebird A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Many thanks TinderArts, I know Millennia and Massenburg, will check out the others right away! Has anybody else worked with any of these? Hej Björn, Svensken says we should talk American here, so i guess we'll do that then... I'm so hurt that you thought that I'd try to copy a U87... Only a '47 is really worth duplicating! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Fröberg Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Oh, sorry! My mistake. Now I remember. How did I remember that wrong? To my defense I can say it was about 2-3 years since I saw one of them.. About talking swedish, people have been a bit irritated when I've talked swedish with Mats Olsson, so we've been keeping it english. - Bob Freebird A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundscape Studios. Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 D.W. Fearn VT-2. If you are looking for the best tube pre-amp - this is it. I own 4 channels, and could not be happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Money no object, transparency the goal? I think it would be difficult to top the GML stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I'm with Phil, the GML pres are amazing. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTRBass Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 If money is no object: I too agree GML is very pure fidelity gear. A Designs is very good stuff too. I'd still take a Great River, or Buzz Audio pre over anything out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Oh absolutely... Dan Kennedy's original Great River preamps (NOT the more "colorful" NV series, which are also excellent - just in a different way) are very nice sounding, transparent style preamps... but OTOH, GML's are still hard to beat. But Dan definitely knows his stuff too. Hard to go wrong with either one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Clematide Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 FM Acoustics ClassAmp M-1 $ 4000.-/single channel Martin Kantola----->The application is critical acoustic recordings of various types of music, from very loud to quite soft Recording extrem low volume music 1) Use a amplifier with no gain control. The fact that all currently existing methods of remote gain control negatively influence the audio signal prevents us from using such remote control circuitry. An efficient solution is used in allowing a tremendous headroom reserve (signals of up to +26 dBv can be accommodated at the input) and clipping is avoided. Set to a reasonable level and start to work. With headroom you never run into clipping problems. 2) If you want to capture the important details that separate excellent recordings from the mediocre, the best way is to amplify the mic signal right next to the microphone. Precise amplification, proper balancing and multiple buffering should all be done inside the amp. The signal can then be sent through literally hundreds of meters of cable without losses or changes in performance. The result is more accuracy and musicality, especially with critical sources such as acoustic instruments and voices. Not that such accuracy will be absolutely necessary for recording purposes, but it shows the capabilities. 3) Make sure to bypass the entire mixing desk channel electronics and to use the adequate signal route that will go through the minimum of desk electronics. This is often best done by not feeding the high-level to the mixing desk line level inputs. While in this case, one is bypassing the on-board microphone preamplifier, the signal will still go through some channel electronics and this even when the channel is switched to "bypass". Connecting in such a way, a considerable amount of improvement can be made. The goal is not to feed the signal of the amp thru additional desk electronics. 4) The correct path for the signal is to enter the patch bay via a direct input, or direct to the monitor/tape return patch bay input, so one is listening to the signal of the amp with minimal additional electronics 4) The ultimate way is to feed the output of the amp directly into the recorder, by passing the mixing desk entirely. Thats the way we record music who comes near the threshold of hearing, and this with a acuracy of 0.01 dB. Signal on a digital medium for example: recorded a composer who plays ppppp at -72 dBFs, still hearing music and no noise, well you hear the breath of the musicians... - -Peace, Love, and Potahhhhto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 Thank you so much guys, this is really helpful! It has clearly narrowed down my search overnight to just a few candidates. Angelo, I couldn't find any details of your suggested device on the website, but I appreciate your generous advice. To locate the pre-amps next to the microphones makes a lot of sense, but I never realized that it can be done without remote gain control. With my current setup, I even have some control over levels by varying the polarisation voltage of the microphones (even if it might affect the frequency response a little), so having enough headroom in the pre-amp and going for set-and-forget is beginning to sound possible. I'll keep you guys updated on how things progress, thanks again! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Clematide Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 FM Acoustics www.fmacoustics.com/ ________________________________________________ http://home.earthlink.net/~djahnsen/preinfo.html FM Acoustics Ltd. ClassAmp M-1 >1 Channel Pre $3620.- 41/1/725 77 77 http://www.netasia.net/users/charleskeng/fm.htm ________________________________________________ Other FM Acoustics sites: http://www.axiss.co.jp/fmlineup.html http://www.netasia.net/users/charleskeng/fm.htm -Peace, Love, and Potahhhhto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Swedien Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Björn Fröberg sez-------->About talking swedish, people have been a bit irritated when I've talked swedish with Mats Olsson, so we've been keeping it english. Brucie sez------->Heliga Moses! Vi maste prata Amerikanska hela tid har! Himmel och Pankacka!!!! Men jag vill lara bettre Svenska.... Kan ni kopa Bregott for mej??? Lycka till kara vanner!!! Brucie the Viking!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Fröberg Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Bruce, jag visste inte att du kunde svenska! Jag har haft för mig att du är av svenskt ursprung, men det här var en positiv överraskning! Bregott tror jag tyvärr bara finns i Sverige, jag är från Finland själv. - Bob Freebird A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Brucie sez------->Heliga Moses! Vi maste prata Amerikanska hela tid har! Himmel och Pankacka!!!! Men jag vill lara bettre Svenska.... http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=2815&a=60511 Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Rude Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Wew! Trick question, ask 10 audio engineers and you'll get virtual track answers. If "best" were quantifiable instead of subjective... The best anyone can do is suggest a range of microphone preamps for a particullar application. Remember if the objective is "uncolored" sound, tubes can't be included. [but you'll have to pry my LA 2A's out of my cold, dead hands...] For uncolored look at Grace Designs... "Music is a life sentence." - K. Parker Rude Recording Al_Rude@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted May 7, 2005 Author Share Posted May 7, 2005 AL RUDE:Remember if the objective is "uncolored" sound, tubes can't be included.You know what, this has to be one of the most common misconceptions in the audio industry. You are absolutely right that most tube equipment has a strong flavour of especially second harmonic distortion. But this is not because of the tubes themselves! Picture a ship of aliens visiting Earth. They would naturally be interested in all the fuss about audio and music ;-) Imagine they would discover that amplification plays a central role in our world of audio. So they find a guitar playing dude and abducts (is that a word?) all his equipment for a detailed inspection. "Ha", they say, "these Earthlings certainly can't build low-distortion equipment. We found this green little box on the floor called TS and it is a very badly functioning amplifier, in fact the worst we have seen. This planet is doomed." OK, back to reality... If we only want to, it's quite possible to build transformerless tube preamplifiers with very low distortion and excellent technical specs. What little distortion is left might have a very musical character to it, but instead of soft, rounded and shimmering the sound would be transparent, airy and extremely detailed. I think this is important to know; tubes are not necessarily dirty as transistors are not always clean. It's all up to the designer, not the building blocks. Having said that, my quest for a suitable pre-amp has lead me as far as two units in the final round. I shouldn't had said "best that money can buy", because there turned out to be some gorgeus pre-amps which get very expensive in the quantities we need... The 4-channel GML and Millennia both seem to be perfect for our needs, any final helpful and guiding thoughts before the case is closed and the winner is announced, and the money is spent? Thanks guys, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted May 17, 2005 Author Share Posted May 17, 2005 Back from recording a world-class string quartet in a beautiful hall with our new Millennia. It's an amazing pre-amp, doesn't take long to realize that once you've powered it up! Once again, thanks for all the good advice! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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