mreiner Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I've got a couple of questions I thought someone here may be able to help me with. I'm curious as to mic reccomendations, and whether vocals should be done in stereo(hard left/right). 1. We've tried using a 58 but the songers voice is very rough and the mic seems to add to the harshness. Would a condenser be a better option? 2. Are vocals normally done in stereo? 3. What kind of reverbs and amount are used on singer/songwriter vocals? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 A single vocal is typically recorded in mono, since it is one voice into one mic. For groups of vocals, particularly a choir or chorus, then multiple micing and panning for imaging is often employed. What are you recording into? Typically a large diaphram condenser, such as a Neuman U87, AKG 414 or similiar is used for vocals. Cheaper mics include the Rode NTK and AT 3035. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Roberts Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Vocals are usually done in Mono and a condenser will bring out "more" of the vocalists qualities in most cases. Verb is subjective depending on the mix. For foldback, I usually let the vocalist dial in how much they are comfortable with at the mic location. I usually cut dry..add efx later. During the mix, it is a matter of taste and how the rest of the track lays. Stereo vocal tracking is not out of the question but will give you about 3 times more chances to make it sound "bad". Bill Roberts Precision Mastering -----------Since 1975----------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreiner Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 Thanks for the quick replies. So you are saying use one line in and pan center; intead of two lines in, one left one right? If the condenser brings out more qualities of the voice, and the voice is raspy and I feel its too harsh I guess I should stick to the dynamic right? Any ideas how to warm it up a little? It sounds alright in the room, just the recording comes out "biting". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Originally posted by mreiner: I'm curious as to mic reccomendations, and whether vocals should be done in stereo(hard left/right). If you like them that way, sure. Sometimes, for effect on a certain song, I'll double-track vocals and pan them hard left/right. Just to be persnickety, I should point out that *technically* speaking, this is not stereo. I suppose "dual mono" would be the most accurate term. I realize that with most people, this is splitting hairs, but just so you know. A stereo recording of anything is technically, two microphones simultaneously in what is an effort to accurate capture and reproduce the stereo sound stage. 1. We've tried using a 58 but the songers voice is very rough and the mic seems to add to the harshness. Would a condenser be a better option? Most likely, yes. And depending on what you are recording through, a good quality mic preamp would also be very helpful. 2. Are vocals normally done in stereo? Not very often. 3. What kind of reverbs and amount are used on singer/songwriter vocals? This really depends on the kind of music and song and emotion that you are trying to evoke. There are many ways to apply reverb, all the way from reverb-drenched cavernous reverbs to completely devoid of any. So it's back on you. What sounds good for the song? Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Originally posted by mreiner: If the condenser brings out more qualities of the voice, and the voice is raspy and I feel its too harsh I guess I should stick to the dynamic right? Any ideas how to warm it up a little? It sounds alright in the room, just the recording comes out "biting". Yes, you can go back to using a dynamic, or you can use a fuller, less harsh sounding condenser, or you can use a mic preamp that is much fuller sounding,...... Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSoundman Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 An SM58 is a pretty "faithfull" microphone. I'm guessing what you are recording sounds a lot like what the singer sounds like in real life. Without knowing the intimate details, I can make a couple of suggestions- Have the singer back off the mic a little. If he is "eating" it, it will not record well Make sure you are not overdriving any piece of equipment in the signal chain. If the singer has a "rough" voice, any distortion due to excessive levels will be enhanced by electronic equipment working beyond its capacity Record the vocal dry. I'm guessing a little reverb will smooth out the vocal. But if you record it with the wrong effect, you won't be able to fix it. If you record it dry, you can experiment Try a different mic. I'm thinking some kind of dynamic mic may work best, but there are hundreds of them. I used to have an old AKG in my kit that sounded like shit on anything but a jazz kick, or a guitar amp with a small speaker. A 57 or 58 would have sounded like poo in those applications, but this dead sounding AKG gave me just the "color" I was looking for Network51: Pirate Radio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreiner Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 Soundman thanks. What kind of reverb would smooth it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I don't know, is this the same guy that you did that last album with? Really gravely voice? Not much you can do with that except ensure the songs are always in his range. I have the same issue, albeit not as severe, and have to make sure the song and the key are within my range. Use that voice to it's max. It has some real character, much like Louis Armstrong's voice, though all it's own and even somewhat akin to Leon Redbone. This guy could easily develope a cult following that could blow up big time. I'd try different mics to find the one that flavors the voice the best, raw and go from there. Any reverb will have to be used very judiciously and may add a bit of presence to the voice. Problem is, it's going to be tough to keep it in check, adding the presence without going too far. IMHO, and if it's the voice I'm thinking about. If not, forget everything you just read. Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Just to be persnickety, I should point out that *technically* speaking, this is not stereo. I suppose "dual mono" would be the most accurate term. I realize that with most people, this is splitting hairs, but just so you know. Just to be equally persnickety, I'd call that "panned mono". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSoundman Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I would play with a couple of types of reverb on the vocal. (chorus type effect, plate, large room) If you use enough to cover the vocal, it would sound weird. Play with a couple of different settings until you find something that sort of fills in the "gaps" Network51: Pirate Radio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 TheSoundman, that's kind of what I'm trying to get across with the presence. As I mentioned, if it's the voice I'm thinking about it's quite unique and will be hard to "fill in the gaps". Again, if it's the voice I'm thinking about I heard some of the rough drafts as well as samples from the finished cd. Personally I like, overall, the way it was captured. Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblue1 Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 What everybody else said. Er... wait a sec. Anyhow, while I might tend to side with the condenser mic crowd on this app, it's easy to let doctrinaire approaches keep you from finding the optimal treatment. Still, the greater definition afforded by a good condenser mic might bring out the quality and character of the vocalist, while the wrong dynamic might not, paradoxically increasing the "harshness" of the vocal sound. But, all too often, you may not know until you've tried every mic in your locker which one really works best. [Also, just in case there's any confusion on the reverb thing, as others have suggested, you can record (depending on your gear) with some reverb in the singer's headphone monitor mix while cutting his vocals dry for the greatest flexibility in processing/mixing. A lot of vocalists find having some reverb helps them 'hear' their pitch better, since the verb trails their singing a bit in realtime.] bookmark these: news.google.com | m-w dictionary | wikipedia encyclopedia | Columbia Encyclopedia TK Major / one blue nine | myspace.com/onebluenine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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