Tedly Nightshade Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Well, our album is nearly done, all originals, and I have a line on mastering, packaging, art, duplication, all that, but no clue at all as far as copyrighting tunes and whatever publishing stuff may be pertinent. This is one of these areas (for me) where my mind grinds to a complete halt. I can't follow this stuff at all. I've read about this topic quite a bit, and nothing sticks. Anyway, I just want to do whatever it is ought to be done so we can finally (!) get this album out in style. What should I do? A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Ted, It's really not too big a deal. Here is what we did: 1) Send a copy of the record to the copyright office. You can get the copyright forms online... don't have time to dig up the link at the moment but let me know if you have trouble finding it. 2) Come up with a name for your publishing company, and get a tax ID number for it. You can get the ID number online from the IRS. Do the same for your band name. 3) Join ASCAP or BMI if you aren't already a member (we are with ASCAP). Again you can apply on their web sites. Enter the names of all the tunes on your album into the ASCAP or BMI database, along with their authors' name(s) and designate your new company as the publisher/recipient of publishing royalties. You will be asked to enter the Tax ID #'s for your band and publishing co., and/or the individual SSN's of the authors. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Send checks...they all have to be paid. But these are fees that are well worth paying siince if you have any hits on there it willl make it easy for YOU to get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Copyright form for your album... Print out and follow the directions. Basically fill out info, send a check for $30 and a copy of the music... you can copyright all the tunes at the same time... Don't send $30 per tune... http://www.copyright.gov/forms/formsr.pdf Publishing is a bit more complex... You can start your own publishing company as Lee suggested... costs approx $150 give or take... or you can have someone with a publishing company adminster your tunes for you... check http://www.bmi.com for more... Kris My Band: http://www.fullblackout.com UPDATED!!! Fairly regularly these days... http://www.logcabinmusic.com updated 11/9/04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Thanks everybody! I'll be back with a progress report... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Kris, Where can you get a publishing company for 150 bucks? I did not see that on the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 FWIW---& this isn't an endorsment---there's at least one other major performance rights agency, SESAC. I'm sure you can locate their website to aquire info if you want. I mention this only in terms of expanding the realm---once there was only ASCAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Hmm, I sort of managed to take a look at that .pdf from the copyright office- just the 1st page, since my computer is screwing up. I'm realizing my situation is more complex than I presented it- our originals are written by two people, sometimes separately, sometimes together, and there is one song on the album that is written by a friend (it's not published or copyrighted I don't believe). I'd like to figure out the copyright stuff- I want to do right by my friend who wrote a tune, especially- but the whole publishing/ASCAP part seems like a complete ripoff and unnecessary paperwork and fees mess. I'd be deeply surprised if any Clear Channel affiliates started playing our stuff every hour on the hour, so I can't imagine the potential return is worth the trouble. Is it possible to do all the publishing stuff later, if and when it seems worthwhile? Getting involved with the infernal revenue'rs seems like a dubious idea... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Ted, It doesn't cost anything to join ASCAP, nor get a tax ID #. You can set up the "skeleton" for the publishing company without actually incorporating (and spending any money) unless you have reason to believe you'll be receiving royalties from airplay. If you don't expect to be getting any airplay (and don't forget that could be college or satellite radio, not just Clear Channel nonsense), then you don't really need to go through all that. As for the copyright, that isn't complex and it's just a means of proving who wrote a tune in the event you ever need to. If your friend wrote the one tune, then your friend is responsible for filing a copyright if he wants to, and joining ASCAP or whatever. You can file individual tunes with the copyright office and list the appropriate author(s), although it costs more that way. It's up to you to decide when and if to do the ASCAP/publishing stuff. Like I say, it doesn't cost to join ASCAP or get the tax ID #, nor is it much paperwork, and if you've already done that then it'll just make it that much easier to collect money quickly if a money opportunity arises. You'd hate to have somebody buy your CD, put it on the air and not be able to figure out where to send the checks. So you might as well have that structure in place. But if you don't, it's not like you're gonna get arrested or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Originally posted by Lee Flier: If your friend wrote the one tune, then your friend is responsible for filing a copyright if he wants to, and joining ASCAP or whatever. Well, I guess I'll let him know what we're doing and remind him of the opportunity. You can file individual tunes with the copyright office and list the appropriate author(s), although it costs more that way. is this why I see stuff like "all tunes by Ted and Jill" or "all songs by High Creek Rising"? Seems a lot simpler to go that route, and we really see ourselves as collaborators, not competitors- I suppose who really wrote what parts can be presented unofficially and elsewhere for the more scholarly of our fans... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Yeah exactly Ted. Well not only is it simpler to file copyright that way, but it prevents conflicts of interest within bands. If one person in a band writes a hit song and is raking in all sorts of dough, and wants to stay home and write more songs while the others are eating ramen noodles and bugging the songwriter to go on the road so THEY can get paid too... well, it sucks. If everybody in the band makes money off a hit, it prevents that kind of thing. Mind you, most people are greedy and don't see it that way, but I know you ain't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Originally posted by Johnny B: Kris, Where can you get a publishing company for 150 bucks? I did not see that on the link. Scroll down to query # 2 http://www.bmi.com/songwriter/resources/pubs/publisher.asp Ted... 1) copyright the songs you wrote yourself... 2) copyright the songs you co-wrote with your co-writer(s)... and then 3) your co-writer would copyright the songs she wrote herself... 4) and your other friend can copyright his song if he'd like... $30 for each submission to the copyright library... When you publish the tunes is where you get into the nitty gritty as to who owns what percentage of each song ... if you go that route... Kris My Band: http://www.fullblackout.com UPDATED!!! Fairly regularly these days... http://www.logcabinmusic.com updated 11/9/04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Great! Thanks again, folks! Time for me to do my homework... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shniggens Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Need to dig this thread back up for a Form SR question - Field 2A - Nature Of Authorship - Briefly decscribe nature of material created by this aurhor in which copyright is claimed. What do they want here? Sorry for my ignorance, this is the first time I've filled out one of these. Amateur Hack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle ggurl Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 On the subject of publishing ... not to complicate matters, but this is taken from BMI's writer handbook: link: http://www.bmi.com/songwriter/resources/pubs/writer.asp " 17. Do I have to have a publisher for my works? BMI recommends that writers work with professional publishers who are in a position to give the work maximum exposure by securing recordings, making print versions when appropriate, arranging for foreign exploitation, overseeing collection of royalties and similar services. However, if there is no publisher to whom the publisher's share of the performing right has been assigned, the writer can collect both the writer's share and the publisher's share of performance royalties earned by the work directly through his BMI writer account. If the writer subsequently assigns the publishers share to a BMI publisher and properly notifies BMI, BMI will change its records to reflect the assignment." If you have Nolo Press's "Music Law" book by Atty. Rich Stim, it also says you probably don't need to form a music publishing company if you are in a "Songwriter takes all" situation, in which the writer gets the songwriting credit and the band does not share in the proceeds. If the band is really just you and the collaborator, this may be suitable. I spoke with someone at BMI and was told a writer doesn't NEED a separate pub. company unless they are: 1. signing with a label 2. licensing stuff in foreign markets. Maybe something to consider ... Original Latin Jazz CD Baby "I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeVW Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 If writing credits vary, you really do need to do individual copyright registration for each song, but then you also need to to a form SR (sound recording) registration for the recording itself. Remember that song copyright and recording copyright are two different things and there are potential royalties associated with both the song and the individual recording of that song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddyelmis Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Also remember that joint copyright owners each have full rights to material, and can exploit the material independantly, but must account to the other owner for his/her share of the money. So, copyright owner #2 can license the song for a genital warts commercial ("Unscripted" anyone?) without #1's permission, but must share the money with #1. In this case, a publishing company can be a good thing if it has control over placing the songs. You can also easily do this with a simple written agreement between the copyright owners. www.ruleradio.com "Fame is like death: We will never know what it looks like until we've reached the other side. Then it will be impossible to describe and no one will believe you if you try." - Sloane Crosley, Village Voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anifa Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 A lot of people recommend going the cheapest route possible when copyrighting a CD; not I. As in all aspects of life; you get what you pay for. I'm going to speak from my recollection of information that I read throughout the past pertaining to copyright laws; I'm not an attorney. Whenever you copyright a "collection" of works, you are limited as to what is covered and to what extent the coverage ranges. If more than one owner is listed, the SR requires equal distribution of rights. Also, filing an SR by itself without protecting the underlying works through a PA weakens the protections under International laws. IIRC, if an outsider takes an interest in a particular song, but not the entire collection, for you to sell the rights to one song; the entire collection must be broken or sold for the price of the one song. In breaking the copyright to release the one song; all other songs must be re-copyrighted again to protect them. Only the initial copyright of a song is at the rate of $30.00; additional filings have increased rates... I'm thinking that it doubles for subsequent filings. It's best to file individual protections for each song under the PA form and then file the sound recording under the SR form. Copyright registration for a sound recording alone is neither the same as, nor a substitute for, registration for the musical, dramatic, or literary work recorded. SOURCE - Copyright Office - Form SR - Sound Recordings http://www.copyright.gov/register/sr-choose.html Here is one of the best sites that I've ever came across that gives detailed information about the roles and responsibilities of MI professionals. It's a law firm in the UK, but nonetheless, a great resource for how things work. You might want to browse through the site if you are seriously considering registering as a Publisher. http://www.leeandthompson.com/MusicGuide/Chapter1.html You will find information about publishing in Part VI http://www.leeandthompson.com/MusicGuide/Chapter4_Part1_1.html You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeVW Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I can't recommend this book highly enough. Easier reading than "This Business of Music" and written by lawyers who get it. The fact that their first chapter deals with the legal ramifications and necessities to deal with when your band breaks up showed me that they do, indeed, understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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