Fantom-06: controlling filter cutoff with wheel

[kelp]

I'm wanting to control filter cutoff with the wheel. I set it to the CC for cutoff. It kind of works, but the tone I want to use it on has one partial with a LPF and one with a HPF, so the effect isn't quite right.

 

The MFX is used for delay, so then I thought I'd use the Super Filter in IFX. However, it doesn't look like IFX can be controlled in real time. Can anyone confirm or deny?

 

If not, the alternative is to use MFX (and maybe use IFX for delay) or change the HPF in that one partial to a LPF.

 

[Loving this Fantom 06, but I'm coming off a Nord Lead A1, which made wheel assignments to anything very easy.]

[CyberGene]

I don’t have a Fantom-06 but I’ve been really close to purchasing one, so your question interested me. Do you mean that you can’t assign a wheel to a concrete destination, e.g. partial one cut-off, but only assign it globally to a CC and all partials will respond to it equally, regardless of the type of filter (LPF or HPF) of each partial? If that’s the case, doesn’t sound like a very flexible mod matrix.

 

Alternatively, you can put the same sound in two zones and only enable one partial in each, and then assign the wheel only to the zone with the corresponding partial but it sounds too awkward anyway.

 

I'll wait for knowledgeable people to share their experience since this sounds like a situation I may encounter myself too. 
 

Other than that, how do you find the Fantom-06, is it easy to use?

[kelp]

@CyberGene! Thank you! Your reply led me to dig deeper. 

 

If you just assign cutoff (CC 74) to the wheel it seems to affect all partials. However, the Matrix Control per Tone applies to each partial (the flexible case you describe above). In the Matrix Control I assign the source as some unused CC and the destination as Cutoff. Again, that can be done per partial. In my case I made the assignment to both partials but made the sensitivity (the depth of the control) +63 for the one with the LPF and -63 for the one with the HPF. So now when I use the wheel the cutoff is modified in opposite directions per partial. Very cool. [Note that you also have to adjust the starting cutoff values per partial to get the desired effect, and in my case I reversed the min and max values for the wheel such that pushing the wheel up decreases the CC value).

 

Loving this board so far. Very different from the Nord. The last Roland I owned was a Juno 60 - about 40 years ago! So I had no previous experience with Roland architecture or terminology. Given that, I was able to program 17 songs (and twice as many scenes!) in about a week to get ready for a rehearsal. Judging by the first paragraph of your reply, I'd say it won't be difficult for you to figure out. 

 

There are usually a few ways to do things between the controllers and the touch screen. You have to pay attention to what zone is being edited, which trips me up from time to time. You also have to know that tones are shared by all scenes, so editing one tone could affect another scene (this is the opposite of the Nord where each program had four independent slots that were not shared by any other program). The board is good about warning you when you're about to leave a scene with an edited tone in it, which requires a separate tone save or the changes will be lost.

 

I wish it didn't take four actions to save a scene. And I wish there was a zone copy/paste function. It can also be tricky to turn off velocity sensitivity (there are many velocity parameters to consider). And velocity sensitivity cannot be adjusted for SuperNatural tones.

 

The sounds are great. So, so many! I didn't pay much attention to the "find" and "favorites" functions at first, but they are huge time savers. I also thought I was going to use the pads in "Switch Key Group" mode to turn zones on and off within a scene. But those pad assignments are global so I decided to just stick with different scenes. I instead either assign Scene Up or Scene Down to the S1/2 switches or to a pedal. Combine that with Scene Remain and this board is doing exactly what I had hoped.

 

My question about the ability to control IFX is still open though. IFX are applied at the Scene level. I don't see the equivalent of Matrix Control at that level.

 

 

[CyberGene]

@kelp ahh, so there’s actually an advanced mod matrix, thank you. I downloaded the reference manual and the parameters guide and just taking a quick glimpse at them shows there’s almost infinite potential in the Fantom-0 series. I’ve had it in my Thomann cart for a month now, ready for ordering but I’ve been cautious because I previously owned MODX6 and it made me hate workstations due to the confusing complexity. However it seems the Fantom is more intuitive and also offers shortcuts to things like split/layer to make it easier for live playing, so it may be the much better instrument for me. Besides, I’m in love with the synth sounds that I hear on demos. It’s my 44th birthday today and I usually treat myself with a new keyboard/synth on my birthdays, so probably a good reason to finally hit the “order” button 😀

[stoken6]

7 hours ago, CyberGene said:

there’s actually an advanced mod matrix

Does this allow you to control the ninth drawbar with the mod wheel?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CyberGene]

34 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Does this allow you to control the ninth drawbar with the mod wheel?

I don’t have a Fantom-0 but based on the Parameter’s Guide, it should be possible:

Taking in mind you can assign MIDI CC to any of the two additional wheels (note it’s not the combined pitch/mod stick which cannot be reassigned to anything else besides pitch and modulation CC#1)

[stoken6]

Thanks for the detailed reply @CyberGene. That makes the board even more attractive.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CyberGene]

@stoken6 don’t take my word for granted though, someone with the Fantom should try it to confirm. For instance, the supported MIDI values for each drawbar (CC) are in the range 0-8 and I’m not sure if the control wheels can be scaled to utilize their entire travel to a compressed 0-8 range. Maybe they can only send 0-127 which would mean the actual 9 drawbar positions are within a tiny region of movement…

[CyberGene]

@stoken6 here’s another excerpt from the parameters guide that clarifies my previous doubt:

So, on that screen you have to assign CC 78, min value 0, max value 8 and that should make the corresponding control wheel change the ninth drawbar smoothly across the entire range of movement.

 

I feel kind of ready to purchase the Fantom-06 already 😀

[kelp]

I CANNOT confirm what is being asked about the 9th drawbar. When I assign it to CC 78 it doesn't work. In fact, no CC assignment has any effect on the behavior of the wheels (even turning them off!). Wheel 1 always speeds up or slows down the tonewheels while Wheel 2 stops/starts up the toneweels.

 

That's what's on Roland's site (the document is for the Fantom, but I assume it's the same). I'm guessing the VTW engine is different from the ZenCore in control as well as sound generation and those CC 70-78 messages are for external controllers to send?