We Need Locking USB-C Connectors for Audio Gear!

[Anderton]

It's a relief that the consumer world has settled on the USB-C connector. It reminds me of the early days of MIDI - everybody had their own pet peeve with it, but its universality took over the world.

 

But now we have people using gear with USB-C connectors for pro audio. Seriously? Neutrik, make us a locking USB-C connector for gear, where if someone rips the cable out, it won't destroy the circuit board to which the USB-C connector is inserted.

 

They did something like this with Ethernet cables which made Variax owners very happy. Time to do the same for USB-C.

[ElmerJFudd]

We do.  And we need class compliant audio/midi interfaces that can keep a tablet charged on long gigs.  
 

And we need interfaces to also have USB hubs for gear that no longer has 5 pin midi. 
 

The convergence of consumer and pro gear makes adapters for consumer ports and cables a bird’s nest. 

[Joe Muscara]

Do you mean so that it doesn't work itself out? After I added a Thunderbolt 3/4 hub to my iMac, I realized that was a problem. In fact, I had previously had problems where if I moved my external SSD drive (which is my boot drive and connected via TB3), it would often disconnect and thus cause a kernel panic.  I didn't realize it was a flaw of the USB-C type connector in general until I added the hub to my system.

 

The maker of my hub, OWC/MacSales, sells "Clingons" that screw into the hub and hold the cable. They also have adhesive on one side if you prefer or need to use that.

 

It's a bummer that this small, convenient, reversible connector style that fixes most of the issues with the USB-A connector has this issue.

[ElmerJFudd]

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/CLINGON1PK/
 

[Anderton]

In a review of the Clingon, here's another tip:

 

"The Clingon was OK, but difficult to install. I finally ended up cutting a thin strip of paper, folding it twice (4x thickness) and cutting down to the size of the Thunderbolt male plug. I used it as a wedge/shim and now the plug fits nice and tight! Far better than the Clingon, much cheaper, and delivery time impressively short (zero)."

 

It seems the Clingon was released mainly as a fix for people having problems with an OWC hub. There are quite a few negative comments about using them with Macs, like the following. So it seems like a "try before you buy" and since you can't, you need to go into it realizing the limitations.

 

"I’ve never seen a connection with a screw hole above it. I’ve got a M1 Mac Mini, 16” MacBook Pro, 13” MacBook Pro. I’ve got several OWC TB3 and TB4 hubs. No screw hole. So these connectors rely on the adhesive alone. Sadly these connectors also block the other only other TB4 port on my Mac Mini. In conclusion, device sort of works. It’s better than nothing and OWC is not to blame for the **** implementation of the spec. So, this thing might help and it might not. Best of luck."

 

"Unfortunately, the spacing of my Thunderbolt 3 ports and my USB 2.0 on the rear of my iMac prevents me from installing these on both Thunderbolt 3 ports - the devices are simply too large, even if I trim the protrusion. Does work for one of my ports, so it solves half of my problem."

 

"These work well for OWC products with threaded screw holes above the port and OWC branded cables. Otherwise they randomly fit other cables, including Apple's - the opening either too large (allowing connector to wiggle) or too small. If too small (they fit after applying significant force) and you are depending on the adhesive, it will work reliably only if you plan on leaving the cable connected permanently. Otherwise the ClingOn will likely come off with the cable the first time you unplug it and subsequent attachments will be no more reliable than no ClingOn at all. Related to the adhesive in general, bear in mind that the adhesive area/connector is approximately 5/8" tall and applying it to any surface less than that, e.g. a C port on an M1 MacBook Pro, yields a less than secure attachment."

[RABid]

It is not just needed for audio. When I connect my MacBook to a TB4 doc, every time I shift the computer in my lap I get drive disconnect messages for every drive connected to the doc. The USB C/Thunderbolt 3/4 connections are very sensitive to to any cable movement and sufferer interruptions of data flow.

[Nathanael_I]

The only way I've gotten somewhat around this is to get the SKB laptop over 4RU case.  The MBP lives on the top. The USB connection goes through a passthrough to a USB hub mounted securely on a rack shelf so it can't move at all.  The RME UCX interface is mounted on its rack ears, and connects to the hub with cables that are zip-tied in place.  The laptop is held gently in place by velcro brackets.  It's not immune from a complete upset, but it won't move in use or if the case is bumped.  So the USB is as stable as a desktop situation. Not perfect, but at least self-contained.

 

There's XLR or 1/4" on the UCX and then I'm to normal audio connectors.  With the rack either on a small stand or the ground, if I don't need to see the screen, it's secure enough. 

 

I'd love locking connectors, but then you have the problem that Mag-Safe power connectors solve - trip over a cable and yank a $4k laptop onto the floor. 

 

The truth is that modern stage and studio audio is so amazing, and so fragile all at once.  It's a wonder anything works at all.  I've had miles of copper wire on the ground and somehow it all works. 

[Notes_Norton]

As a musician who sets his gear up and tears it down for a living, we need locking USB and locking 5 pin DIN connectors.

 

I wonder if the USB-C connectors are rugged enough. When I set up my gear, I use velcro type strips to wrap the wire to the stand to keep tension off the wire/plug/socket.

 

The original USB on my 2002 ThinkPads lasted until 2020 when I retired them, but the USB-C seems so much more fragile.

 

Notes ♫

 

 

[Stokely]

Lightning seems much better in that way at least.  Cables won't work their way loose.  Not saying lightning is better in other ways, and I'm looking forward to a day when I don't need usb c AND lightning cables around the house, but lightning has a nice tactile feel when you plug in and as I say won't come loose.

As others have said, If I move my MBP around (it has 4 thunderbolt usb c connectors) I'm very likely to have at least one just fall out, which is silly.  Thankfully I don't use this stuff live.

I still can't wrap my head around whatever user testing was done for usb A....is it just me?  I literally have to turn the thing 3 times at least to make it fit.  Typically:  try once on side 1, doesn't fit, flip it.  Side 2 also doesn't fit, flip it back and now it works.   At least hdmi you can tell visually which way it needs to go, once you find your glasses and flashlight because tvs and other devices make it as hidden and tucked away as possible    I have so many different usb cables around the house (printer, mini, micro, regular A, usb-c) but I'm needing most less and less.

[Anderton]

Apparently USB-C female connectors don't have to have problems. I have one on my Samsung phone, and it locks firmly in place. It resists casual tugging, but if you want to pull it out, you can. I'm not sure why the Thunderbolt female connectors on other products have an issue.  

[Notes_Norton]

So far, so good, with USB-C. Time will tell if they are rugged enough.

 

I used the original USB connector on my 2002 laptop for 20 years, doing 15 gigs per month or more with no problem. I coat it once a year or so with DeOxit Gold, to keep corrosion off, and that's it. The USB-C seems more fragile. But perhaps it's not. Like I said, time will tell.

 

Notes ♫

[Anderton]

49 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

So far, so good, with USB-C. Time will tell if they are rugged enough.

 

For what it's worth, Type A connectors are rated for about 1,500 insertion and removal cycles, while Type C is rated for about 10,000 cycles.

[Paul Vnuk Jr.]

I agree with this topic wholeheartedly Craig! I have USB-C hard drives where the cable is loose and wobbly just being plugged in, new out of the box. Glad the format is becoming universal, not so happy that it's a tad wonky on some devices.

[KenElevenShadows]

I have been joking for the last umpteen years that all connectors should be XLR.  

[Notes_Norton]

13 hours ago, Anderton said:

For what it's worth, Type A connectors are rated for about 1,500 insertion and removal cycles, while Type C is rated for about 10,000 cycles.

 

Thanks, that's reassuring.

 

10 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

I have been joking for the last umpteen years that all connectors should be XLR.  

 

NO NO NO!!!!!!

 

As a person who often fixes cables instead of trashing them, I find the XLRs the most difficult to solder.

 

But then the USB connections are impossible to replace as far as I know.

 

😁

 

Notes ♫

[KenElevenShadows]

6 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

 

Thanks, that's reassuring.

 

 

NO NO NO!!!!!!

 

As a person who often fixes cables instead of trashing them, I find the XLRs the most difficult to solder.

 

But then the USB connections are impossible to replace as far as I know.

 

😁

 

Notes ♫

 

Haha! Well, this is spoken as a consumer. i love those things. They would be rather large to mount on a mobile device, admittedly....

 

Maybe everything should be completely wireless. But y'know, actually work and stuff.

[Joe Muscara]

XLR is better than phone jacks. POP!

[Notes_Norton]

4 hours ago, Joe Muscara said:

XLR is better than phone jacks. POP!

Not when you have to resolder. At least for me.

 

Good phone jacks have nice lands where you can make a strong physical connection before you apply the solder. Most XLR jacks do not.

 

I remember our teacher in electronics lab telling us that in order to get a good solder connection, you need a good physical connection first.

 

Notes ♫

 

 

[Anderton]

9 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

Maybe everything should be completely wireless. But y'know, actually work and stuff.

 

Sorry, I can't hear you...you're breaking up 🤣

[Anderton]

On 6/7/2023 at 8:43 PM, Notes_Norton said:

I remember our teacher in electronics lab telling us that in order to get a good solder connection, you need a good physical connection first.

 

Althought that's ideal, all you really need is a connector that holds the cable in place firmly, so that there can't be any pull on the lead that's soldered to the connector. XLR cables are pretty good in that respect. 

[RABid]

There is definitely a big drop in connection consistency between the old UBS connectors and USB-C. I never had data dropout messages with the original USB connections. I'm ready to move on to something else. USB-C is just not working for mobil laptops. If I am not allowed to move I might as well be at a desk using a desktop.

[ElmerJFudd]

Perhaps the solution is something similar to what a few manufacturers like Apogee do with their power adapter connection.  Far right is a silver screw with a metal clamp beneath it.  DC tip goes in, power cable goes under the clamp, silver screw holds the cable in place.  
 

Why don’t they imagine a line that runs both power and data may be used in a critical situation and need to be firmly locked in place.  🤷‍♂️ Comparatively ancient  RJ45 has a cheap plastic clip that holds it tight.  

[ElmerJFudd]

 

[Anderton]

Clingon: See the 5th post down from the top.

 

But in other USB-C news, I'm running into more and more devices where it is indeed difficult to pull the connector out. It doesn't seem to be any sort of standard, just some companies seem better at it than others.

[Notes_Norton]

On 6/17/2023 at 11:08 PM, Anderton said:

Clingon: See the 5th post down from the top.

 

But in other USB-C news, I'm running into more and more devices where it is indeed difficult to pull the connector out. It doesn't seem to be any sort of standard, just some companies seem better at it than others.

Get a bottle of Caig DeOxit Gold.

 

Its intended use is to inhibit corrosion. But it also acts as a bit of a lubricant, making plugging and unplugging easier.

 

It comes in a pen, spray, or brush in a little bottle. I prefer the brush. The pen can't get inside, the spray is messy and wasteful, and the brush gets it where it's needed with no waste.

 

I'ts part of my permanent tool kit here in salt-air Florida.

 

Notes ♫

[Anderton]

6 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

Get a bottle of Caig DeOxit Gold.

 

Its intended use is to inhibit corrosion. But it also acts as a bit of a lubricant, making plugging and unplugging easier.

 

Actually what I want is a bottle of Anti-DeOxit so connectors don't fall out accidentally. That's the reason for wanting locking connectors.

 

(I use Caig DeOxit all the time, even though they spelled "Craig" wrong )

[Notes_Norton]

Since I play live, I usually make sure there is no stress on the connector or cable when I plug it in, and then use one of those hook-and-loop (Velcro) strips to secure it to the keyboard stand, rack ear, or whatever is convenient. I set up and tear down the gear 15-20 times per month, so I'm very aware of wear and tear.

 

I take all the Phone, XLR, and MIDI cables and run a small jumper from the synth, mixer, or whatever to a strip on the front of the rack. That way, I'm not plugging and unplugging the cable on a piece of gear every day. It's much easier to replace a panel jack than one soldered to a circuit board.

 

In my end of the business: Rule #1—If it doesn't work, it's a cable.

 

I agree with you, a locking USB-C connector would be a great idea. And I add, locking 5pin DIN connectors would be great, too.

 

Notes ♫

[Adam Burgess]

Yeah, I prefer patch panels on a rack than in and out of the gear every time. Had to replace a USB-B connector on an X32 interface card a while ago, and need to do a new one on an old iConnectivity Audio interface - luckily that's got two connectors! They're not fun - especially with my eyes now I hit 44 😛 

Don't think I could do a USB-C connector, though!

[Stokely]

I'm "at work" (at home) but looking over at my music computer...yep, the usb mini-hub that has hdmil and a couple usb-a ports has simply fallen the **** out of my laptop...again.   This despite the closed laptop not moving, I may have bumped it or something.   That's pretty ridiculous IMO.   The power adapter (different port) will sometimes come out as well and next thing I know the laptop is out of juice.

Did the "usb men" use the same morons that designed the "flip it over and try 3 times" usb a port?  They obviously improved that aspect, but now they have a connector type that comes out if you sneeze.  You'd think a species that could travel to the damn moon 50 years ago could design a good connector, or if we have, just use that.

[RABid]

I’ve said it before and I will say it again, I sick and tired of my MacBookPro or Air telling me that I improperly disconnected my external drive when all I did is shift my laptop around in my lap to get more comfortable. USB C must be super sensitive to data interruptions.