Pedal Chain Help

[Starrider]

I use a GR-55 which is stereo out.  I want to run a digitech jamman solo xt, stereo in and out with a digitech harmony man.  I see the stereo out on the harmony man, but only one input and a side chain input for thru.  How do I hook this up, and in what order?

Harmonyman Pic.......https://www.manualslib.com/manual/380763/Digitech-Harmonyman.html?page=11#manual

Solo xt looper Pic......https://www.digitech.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Harman/default/dw08b15c26/pdfs/DigiTech_JamMan_Solo_XT_Manual.pdf

GR-55 Pic..................https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GR-55_OM.pdf

[Winston Psmith]

Welcome, @Starrider-

 

First up, a question about the Harmony Man. The GR-55 has extensive Pitch-Shift capabilities in both the FX Processing and the Guitar Modeling engines, so I have to ask what the Harmony Man offers that the GR-55 doesn't?

 

Unfortunately, while there are a lot of ways to convert a Mono signal to faux-Stereo with Splitter Boxes, or a Modulation/Delay pedals with dual Outs, there isn't really a way to convert a Mono Input to a Dual Input. On the GR-55, you have to option to send your Guitar signal out, separate from the processed signal, but it seems that you lose all of the inboard FX processing, so it's essentially a Dry Guitar signal.

 

I would see how much of the Harmony Man's sound you can emulate within the GR-55, either with the onboard FX of Guitar Modeling, then send the GR-55's Outs to the Stereo Ins on the JamMan. Otherwise, it seems like you'd have to assemble a separate FX chain for the Guitar Out going to the Harmony Man, which also doubles up on the number of Amp, PA, or Mixer Channels you'll need available.

 

FWIW, all of the previous GR-series Guitar Synths had Return jacks for the Guitar Out, so you could send your Guitar signal out to any effects you wanted, then bring that signal back into the GR-xx and out through the GR's Main Outs. That would have solved at least part of your problem with signal routing: Guitar Out to Harmony Man - Harmony Man Stereo Outs back to GR's Guitar Return Jacks - combined signal to JamMan via the GR's Main Outs.

 

Let us know what you come up with. Good luck.

[KuruPrionz]

Put the Harmony Man in front of the GR, then you are feeding the Harmony Man a clean guitar signal. Use the Mono out (usually it's also the Left or L output) into the GR and then run stereo outs into the Jamman and stereo outs from the Jamman into 2 amps. Simple. 

[Caevan O’Shite]

         
Starrider-@Winston Psmith has some very solid suggestions there (not that he needs my approval!). In my opinion, the best, most solid solutions to your I/O puzzle.

Now, IF you still really wanted to connect the DigiTech HarmonyMan in-between the Roland GR-55 and the DigiTech JamMan, one workaround for that would be to:

Send the Left output of the GR-55 to the input of the HarmonyMan,

and then send both the Left output of the HarmonyMan and the Right output of the GR-55 to the Left and Right inputs, respectively, of the JamMan.

This would be less than ideal, placing the HarmonyMans effects on only the Left of the JamMans stereo tracks.

Any alternatives using a small mixer could possibly result in compromising the stereo signals and effects of the GR-55, where they would be blended or summed. "Depends". Trial and error would reveal whether that would be an issue or not; if you don't already have a suitable mixer, that could prove to be be an expensive and tedious experiment.

 

7 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Put the Harmony Man in front of the GR, then you are feeding the Harmony Man a clean guitar signal. Use the Mono out (usually it's also the Left or L output) into the GR and then run stereo outs into the Jamman and stereo outs from the Jamman into 2 amps. Simple. 

I was thinking that, myself... until I realized that the Roland GR-55 has ONLY a 13-pin DIN input for the GK pickup; it does not have any 1/4" inputs that you'd usually expect to find on a more typical multi-effects/digital-modeler. Besides, I think that the GR-55 Synth would be confuzzled by the HarmnyMans harmonized output.
    
 

[Winston Psmith]

There's the rub, no direct Guitar Input on the GR-55, and the Guitar Out jack bypasses all of the internal processing.

 

The simplest, if least satisfying solution would be to use the GR-55 in Mono, with the Left/Mono Out jack plugged into the Harmony Man, then send the Harmony Man into the JamMan.

 

I'm still wondering what function the Harmony Man serves in the signal chain, that the GR-55 can't emulate, since that seems to be the main obstacle? I'd still like to hear back from @Starrideron that, so I can maybe offer some better, more useful advice?

 

Using a small 6 or 8-Channel Mixer opens up more options for signal routing and signal processing. Because I'm almost always blending processed Guitar, Guitar Synth, and Looping in my live sets, I've been hauling a small Mixer for years. If you're sending to a good FOH system, or a decent FRFR rig, Stereo Outs shouldn't be a problem.

 

One issue with a lot of compact Mixers is that they only offer a Mono FX Send jack. Some will have Stereo FX Returns, others force you to sacrifice a set of Stereo Channels as your FX Return. FWIW, I never use the FX Send on my Mixer for that reason.

[Starrider]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:29 AM, Winston Psmith said:

I'm still wondering what function the Harmony Man serves in the signal chain, that the GR-55 can't emulate, since that seems to be the main obstacle? I'd still like to hear back from @Starrideron that, so I can maybe offer some better, more useful advice?

The GR-55 does not have intelligent harmony.  You can't change the maj. or min. third on the fly.  The 5th gets oriental sounding .  Need intelligent harmony from the harmony man for this.

[Caevan O’Shite]

5 minutes ago, Starrider said:

The GR-55 does not have intelligent harmony.  You can't change the maj. or min. third on the fly.  The 5th gets oriental sounding .  Need intelligent harmony from the harmony man for this.

 

Then, I'd suggest that you send the Left output of the GR-55 to the input of the HarmonyMan,

and then send both the Left output of the HarmonyMan,

and the Right output of the GR-55,

to the Left and Right inputs, respectively, of the JamMan.

This would be less than ideal, placing the HarmonyMans effects on only the Left of the JamMans stereo tracks. But it would get your Intelligent Harmonizer effects added in there.


Any alternatives using a small mixer could possibly result in compromising the stereo signals and effects of the GR-55, where they would be blended or summed. "Depends". Trial and error would reveal whether that would be an issue or not; if you don't already have a suitable mixer, that could prove to be be an expensive and tedious experiment.
    
 

[Starrider]

Looks like trial and error, or run it in mono as a last resort.

[Caevan O’Shite]

5 hours ago, Starrider said:

Looks like trial and error, or run it in mono as a last resort.

I think you'll do fine with the

GR-55 Left Out > HarmonyMan Left Out > JamMan Left In
GR-55 Right Out > -------------------------- JamMan Right In

scheme that I described above. It puts all of the HarmonyMan processing on the Left, but preserves the Left AND Right synth and processing of the GR-55 through to the JamMan.


 

[Winston Psmith]

@Starrider- Thank you for that clarification.

 

I've been looking through the Effects Parameters for the GR-55, and I'm surprised at how limited they are, compared to Boss/Roland's GT-series MFX. I would have thought some form of Intelligent Harmony or Pitch-Shift effect would be available.

 

IME, upwards Pitch-Shifting reveals more digital artifacts than downwards Pitch-Shifting - that "Oriental" sound, by which I expect you mean de-tuning?

 

Let's dig a little deeper, if I may? I expect you're trying to Pitch-Shift a mixed output signal of processed Guitar + Guitar Synth from the GR-55, and then send that mixed/Pitch-Shifted signal to the JamMan?

 

I don't really see a workaround that satisfies all of your needs, because of that Mono In jack on the Harmony Man. It really depends on how much you're relying on a stereo signal output from the GR-55 itself?

 

Mono Out to Harmony Man In, then Harmony Man's L/R Outputs to the JamMan's L/R Input's - Gets you most of your sound.

 

Split the signal, as @Caevan O’Shite suggests - That at least lets you use the L & R Outs on the GR-55, but you lose any Stereo Harmony effect.

 

Place the Harmony Man in a Mixer's FX S/R Loop - that would also let you use the L/R Outs on the GR-55, but then sum your signal to Mono, which can raise other issues with phasing and collapsed stereo fields.

 

Find a different Pitch-Shift/Harmony Processor with Stereo I/O's, or a MFX Processor with Intelligent Pitch-Shifting and Stereo I/O's. Eventide's PitchFactor is the primary contender, but it's not an impulse buy at $500US. The only compact Pitch-Shift pedal I've seen with L/R I/O's is TC's Brainwave, but there have been some serious issues with that product line, so Let The Buyer Beware . . .

 

 

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

On 10/11/2022 at 6:44 PM, Starrider said:

Looks like trial and error, or run it in mono as a last resort.

So, @Starrider- How've you been making out with that?
     
 

[Winston Psmith]

18 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

So, @Starrider- How've you been making out with that?
     
 

 

@Caevan O’Shite - I'm still wondering if the problem lies with Pitch-Shifting the Synth sounds, the Guitar sounds, or both, as that would help in figuring a workaround. If Starrider just wants to Pitch-Shift Guitar tones, using the Guitar Out jack should do the trick, but if Starrider is trying to Pitch-Shift the Synth tones or the COSM tones as well, we're back to dealing with the Mono In Jack on the Harmony Man. 

 

I'd be curious to sit down with the full Manual for the GR-55 - it's a pain scrolling through pages online - because from my experience with other Boss/Roland GT and GR series devices, there should be a way to do most of what Starrider wants from it? Even within the GR-55's Synth engine, it's possible to set the amount of Pitch-Shift for each individual String, and supposedly, the COSM-modeled Guitar tones from the VG engine have excellent Pitch-Shifting, so again, I'm left wondering.

 

FWIW, I've had several opportunities to buy a GR-55, and passed on all of them. Somehow, I was unconvinced by the "All Things To All Players" approach - ("It Slices, It Dices, It's A Floor Wax AND A Dessert Topping!") - and I haven't seen anything to change my mind in that regard. The lack of either a Guitar In Jack or a Guitar S/R Loop, is more of a failing than you might think at first. Either one might have gone a long way to solving Starrider's problem.