Newby live keys rig set up question

[Dazzathedrummer]

Hi,

 

In my band we have a really great keyboard play but he's not got much live experience and we're having some trouble getting his patch levels set consistently.

 

He uses a Korg Kronos and a Behringer Deepmind, both stereo out into a Roland amp and we take the stereo out of the amp to the PA.

 

I play keys a little but mainly in the studio for writing purposes - i'm an experienced producer so I'm trying to help hm out.

 

My thinking is that he needs to set the master volumes of both boards to around 75% and run each board into a mixer with a VU meter (I have a small A&H he can use) - I would then suggest setting the patch levels (not the master) to hit around -6dB on the VU ensuring they don't go above 0dB when payed together - from that point I would adjust each patch for the desired balance and save the patches.

 

Does that sound like a good approach? ...like I said, I'm not a live keyboard player - any advice would be great!

[ABECK]

First, if there are certain sounds that aren't cutting through the mix, then he should address that in his patches. Patch levels should be made to be relatively consistent and the player should then adjust dynamics with his playing and onboard controls (volume pedal, velocity, etc...)

Is there a Front of House sound guy? If so, he/she should be the next line of defense if something isn't sitting right. I recommend a personal monitor for the keys player so he can adjust his monitor level himself, based on what he needs to hear (everyone is different). What this will do is ensure he is not changing the output of the keys to the front of house.

Also - I have never heard of anyone using a VU on stage to determine levels.

[vonnor]

Not sure if that method would work for all patches. 'Patch' (used here generically) tone and envelope have a lot to do with how much a sound cuts through or not. I have always done patch-level balancing manually, I go through each song and set levels against other patches in the song, starting with the virtual instruments levels - those are usually the limiting factor, since they can only go so loud before cracking up. Balancing levels from one song to the next is still a challenge for me, and I welcome other folks' advice.

 

When I run sound I always ride the keyboards channel slider, and make note of any severe level issues to relay to the keyboard player.

 

~ vonnor

[PianoMan51]

I would describe what you"re describing as gain staging and patch leveling. Big, important topics here.

 

But I"d like to bring one more essential element while playing live: the keyboard"s master volume knob. Because while playing all those great notes in great songs, the master volume knob is the only control I might have time and focus to move. Essentially during the gig I want to know how loud a note will sound before I play that note by looking only at my master volume knob. Typically I normalize this knob to 12 o"clock, knowing that this will give me some room to move if/when the band gets louder.

 

So here"s a few quick tips:

 

1). Don"t be too worried about keeping all your signals hot, but not distorted. Playing live will completely hide noise that would drive you nuts in a recording.

2). Do gain staging not only for best sound, but for repeatability gig after gig. So, 0dB and 12o"clock knob and slider positions are my friends. When I do a sound check my keyboard master volume is set consistently to 12 o"clock. And my keyboard mixer has as many gain knobs set to 0dB as I can. This has a lot to with repeatability. And with being able to glance at the board and mixer and know where I am volume wise.

3). Patch leveling requires a lot of iterations. The ideal is that you just call up patches and no other knob fiddling is required. But this is not just about the patch itself. It"s about how you play it (velocity sensitive keys or volume pedal) and where the sound needs to sit in the mix. And how the volume may need to change for loud sections or solos. A key skill here is to understand how to save and manage patches on the keyboards quickly and accurately so that changes made during rehearsal or even gigs can be captured for next time.

[tunaman]

Not sure if that method would work for all patches. 'Patch' (used here generically) tone and envelope have a lot to do with how much a sound cuts through or not. I have always done patch-level balancing manually, I go through each song and set levels against other patches in the song, starting with the virtual instruments levels - those are usually the limiting factor, since they can only go so loud before cracking up. Balancing levels from one song to the next is still a challenge for me, and I welcome other folks' advice.

 

When I run sound I always ride the keyboards channel slider, and make note of any severe level issues to relay to the keyboard player.

 

~ vonnor

 

THIS. Each Program or Combi on a Kronos will need to be individually tweaked via the Master volume (TFX/MFX page) to balance them out as needed. Certain P/Cs will be louder than others, and will need to be brought down to the lowest common denominator. Then the overall volume level can be set by the player or FOH as required to sit within the overall mix.