Scale lengths & string gauges; madness lies therein

[Winston Psmith]

I've been following Mark's posts about his Baritones with some interest, as I'm diving into the world of ERG's. There's a beautiful Epi LP 7-string at one nearby GC, and a Schecter Damien Elite 8 at another, both for more than reasonable prices. Of course, the two GC's are in nearly opposite directions, so it's not one-stop shopping, by any means.

 

In the meantime, I've been investigating scale lengths and string gauges, as there is little or no consistency to scale lengths on ERG's. The Epi LP has the standard Gibson 24-3/4(+/-), my Omen 8 is 26.5 and the Damien is 28, almost a short-scale Bass. I've been using a .010-.074 set on the Omen, but a .009-.080 set looks better for that low F#. Then, there's the fun with tunings - I'm still working on a Modal tuning for the Omen, but I'm thinking of a drop tuning for the Damien, thus E-A-D-G-B-E-A-D low to high. I'll drop the first two, and last 4 strings a whole step, drop the 3rd & 4th 1-1/2 steps. Wish me luck . . .

 

Addendum: As of this morning, the 7-string LP had disappeared from the Used listings, so that's one trip out of the way. I did get to try out the new Multi-Scale Ibanez 7-string; nice feel, but the pickups are uninspiring.

[d halfnote]

Are those diff scale lengths intended to have specifically diff pitched tunings ?

I know I could chk the mfg sites but maybe you've already done so... :idk

[Mark Schmieder]

What are ERG's? Electric Rhythm Guitars?

[whitefang]

ERG apparently was a make of guitar that was not long ago acquired by POLAK guitar co.

 

But, I'd wait for Winston's response to be sure.

Whitefang

[Winston Psmith]

What are ERG's? Electric Rhythm Guitars?

 

Extended Range Guitars, cousins to your Baritones, 7-, 8- & 9-string Guitars among them. I'm really drawn to the 8-strings, in particular, likely to wind up with two or more of them. There are entire websites devoted to them, and the issues with finding the right tuning & string gauges.

 

@d - there doesn't seem to be any Standard Tuning for ERG's, which is part of the problem, and part of the fun, too. The different scale lengths are really more about physics than anything else; you can't get proper intonation or string tension on those low strings with a normal Guitar scale length of around 25 inches +/- (slightly less for Gibsons, slightly more for Fenders). The 8-string I have right now has a 26.5 inch scale, just one inch longer than a standard Fender Strat; the model I'm looking at has a 28-inch scale, closer to a short-scale Bass (30 inches, typically). Multi-scale (fanned-fret) designs may have a 24/25-inch scale on the Treble side of the neck, and a 28-inch scale on the Bass side. One size most definitely does not fit all . . . String sets are a mixed bag, at best, in terms of gauges and string tensions, so a lot of us wind up cobbling together our own. See Mark's thread about Baritone Guitars, where he's been dealing with much the same thing.

 

@Whitefang - I suspect POLAK changed their name to avoid confusion with the ERG trend. Not sure they made a better choice, but WTH . . . Nice-looking Guitars.

[Mark Schmieder]

I kind of get the 8-string concept, as classical guitars were mostly 8-string (at least in certain countries/regions -- and still are in some) for a long time.

 

I forget which way(s) the extension goes though? Is it one lower, and one higher, like 6-string basses (not counting Bass VI's, which many classify as baritones)?

 

The B-to-B and A-to-A baritones still make a bit more sense to me than 7-string guitars, for better intonation and tension choices as well as not feeling I need the "high" string once I'm going for that vibe anyway. But I've only tried 7-string and 8-string guitars in stores and never owned one. I even recently considered an Ibanez 7-string with low-wound DiMarzio's, but ultimately concluded not to order one (no one seems to have them in stores to try out).

 

It does seem in the past two years that the major string makers have been doing a better job of putting out specific sets and labeling them properly as to which tunings and/or models they are geared towards.

[d halfnote]

...there doesn't seem to be any Standard Tuning for ERG's, which is part of the problem, and part of the fun, too. The different scale lengths are really more about physics than anything else...

 

So how you decide which pitch range for the open strings on which gtr ?

I'd be inclined to seek the pitch(es) where the strings seemed clearly resonant but w/out too much tension.

Whatchu doin' ?

 

[since I early on passed over the idea of altered tunings the closest I've come to this quandary is keeping one gtr in standard tuning at pitch & sometimes a second tuned down 1 step so it offers diff voicings for the same chords.]

[Winston Psmith]

@Mark - I was aware of 7-string Classical Guitars, mostly Russian, but not 8-strings? Would be very interested to see one.

 

With modern ERG's, the 7-strings tend to have a low "B", and the 8-strings tend to have a low "B" 7th string, with a low "F#" or "E" 8th string, but like the Pirate's Code, these are merely guidelines. The Ibanez RG8 has a 27-inch scale, and it's tuned F-A#-D#-G#-C#-F#-A#-D#, low to high, at the factory? Don't ask me who came up with that.

 

I did try setting up a high "A" 1st string (.009) with a low "B" 8th string (.064) on the Omen, but the .009 gave out after a few days. The Epiphone 7-string Les Pauls have a standard Gibson scale, which might work better for a high "A" 1st string than a low "B" 7th. In either case, I like the 7-strings for extended chord voicing, more than low-note riffing.

 

@d - I'm using the stock string sets - mostly Ernie Ball strings - as a starting point, and experimenting with tunings as I go along. The Omen 8 (26.5) does pretty well with the stock EB #2625 string set, .010 - .074, tuned F# - E low-to-high, but I also had fun wrestling it into a Modal tuning, G-A-D-G-D-G-A-D.

 

If I can grab the Damien (28-inch scale) this coming weekend, I'm going to start with the EB #2624 set, .009 - .080, and down-tune it, E-A-D-G-B-E-A-D, low to high, for a start, see how that sounds, and feels. I might swap out the 8th string in those sets, put the .080 on the Omen for slightly more tension, possibly better intonation, and put the .074 on the Damien, for slightly less tension. Still auditioning 7-string Guitars . . .

 

I figure by next Spring, I'll have settled onto a string set, and a tuning, or two, that I'll stick with, but for now, it's open territory. When we do the Massed-Guitars events, some of the pieces have all the strings tuned to "E"; might try that, just for the sheer THUD.