Going back to the 'Dark Side'...?

[Markyboard]

I usually stay far away from these threads but I'll give you my perspective. I base this on my experience over many years and while I'm an engineer I'm no computer expert. FWIW when it comes to Mac or PC I DON'T CARE.

 

Electronics sometimes fails independent of the manufacturer; Apple, PC, IPOD, Android, GE Refrigerators, Panasonic Micro... err...things fail and no one is immune. Some parts are more reliable than others but it's worthless comparing a Mac to a PC when there's so many varieties. Somebody's 1K PC is probably not as reliable as a $2000 Mac or a $2K-$3k hand-built PC. Do you think they're sticking a $200 power supply in that cheap PC? Well, do you punk? Doesn't mean the expensive PC (or Mac) can't fail although the 3 PCs I've built have been extremely reliable. I did have to replace a $200 power supply (under 5 year warranty) screwing with me so go figure. Also I've lost several hard drives over the years. To my knowledge neither MS nor Apple make Hard Drives. But I've found this is the most common failure and makes it look like Windows sucks . Even a HD used only for back-up will screw everything up once it goes south. I do use SSDs as well and they have been solid (so to speak).

 

Expensive mother boards and processors can fail as well - but I think after a month or 2 past install you're good for a long time; assuming you're not cooking the shit out of this stuff! For self-built you should consider spare parts; Obviously a spare motherboard is expensive but certainly having an extra power supply so you can easily eliminate it as a possible culprit helps. Having built 3 other PCs for the family I had the advantage of swapping parts when needed. Definitely consider a spare HD/SSD with Windows loaded if it's your primary drive.

 

If you like MAC OS or Windows purchase accordingly; this and your desired software should be the biggest factor in deciding your platform. This hasn't changed in 20 years but maybe now there's more cross platforms choices. I do think there's some false claims regarding Windows, again due to the variety of software and hardware that goes along with it. This means you have to do your research. As an example when I switched to PC from Mac (still DON'T CARE) RME had the best drivers. And their stuff was (and is) expensive. But it works. Now that $150 Focusrite may work great - these interfaces have gotten better and certainly cheaper but... :idk. I fairly recently switched to using a USB card made for my Aurora interface due to graphics induced noise into the RME audio. Had I to do again I would have opted for no D/A in the PC (Optical or MADI instead). But the USB interface seems to work extremely well also and since I already had the Aurora it was inexpensive.

 

If you're not technically minded or just don't have the know-how or inclination to troubleshoot, go with a Mac or a PC made by someone like ADK. Otherwise I highly recommend building your own with good components. If it does fail you'll know how to fix it. If you do buy off the shelf or order from a place like Dell I would (and did) wipe all their unique software. Of course maybe there goes your warranty but I think at best their unique software just complicates everything.

 

Viruses, mal-ware etc. - I don't get it. My PC is on the internet and has never gotten one. I use free virus software (Avast) but I don't go to THOSE websites - Ever. I'm careful about opening email and especially attachments from unknowns. Maybe I've just been lucky. For 15+ years.

 

Freezing, BSOD,etc.: Back up your stuff. I'm not into the ghost type back-up; I copy the files I need to a spare hard drive in the PC. I forgot iTunes a couple of years ago- that sucked! Also your VSTs and DAW configuration stuff - know where it resides and back it up. I also have a spare Hard drive (internal type) that lives outside my PC that gets plugged in and updated once or twice a year in case my pc catches on fire. I never cared for any of these external type drives that aren't always powered. Back-up should be extremely convenient, otherwise you won't do it.

 

When you do have a lock-up or things are slowing down, REFORMAT. Suspect a virus, REFORMAT. Yeah it'll cost you a day to recover, it sucks but it leaves no doubt as to starting clean. And when this becomes your go-to plan you worry a lot less about viruses and such. I guess you could have backed up a virus attached to some file in which case you're screwed - not full proof but I do keep multiple back-ups from dates separated by a few months.

 

Windows Tweaks: I guess... although I don't recall much here. I think there were a couple of things to disable in the BIOS (ooohh!) but may have been disabled by default anyway. I got into overclocking for a while; mostly to change the pitch of my graphics bleed-through noise. My processor is 6 core, fast with no over clock and 5 years old. It's amazing that there's nothing available today that blows this away. Most of the advances have been towards power saving, not speed and so my initially expensive home made PC cost over that 5 years is extremely low.

 

Ok- that's it; still DON'T CARE!

 

 

 

 

[aronnelson]

This brings up a good question. What IS the equivalent of Logic on Windows? Is there a sequencer with all the plugins included like Logic?

[Al Coda]

 

Viruses, mal-ware etc. - I don't get it. My PC is on the internet and has never gotten one. I use free virus software (Avast) but I don't go to THOSE websites - Ever. I'm careful about opening email and especially attachments from unknowns. Maybe I've just been lucky. For 15+ years.

 

No you aren´t. It´s just only the truth.

 

I´m in the web w/ WinXP which is discontinued and there were all kinds of warnings ...

All marketing crap.

 

Like you, I use antivirus freeware,- AVIRA AntiVir,- and I don´t get any virusses, trojans or whatever malware.

Because sometimes I won´t beilieve that myself, I run "Malwarebytes Anit Malware" from time to time and just recognize my PCs are clean.

I´m using the free "Piriform CCleaner" almost every day on my office machine after it was connected to the web for about 10+ hrs and it wipes about 300-400MB data from my harddrive, mostly all kind of s##t Firefox collects from the web a day over.

 

Freezing, BSOD,etc.: Back up your stuff.

 

Backups are good always, but I cannot remember when my PCs freezed or had a BSOD.

Main reason for BSOD is memory failure or memory leak, p.ex. when plugins are bad coded.

 

Most computer crashes are user error or bad code somewhere.

Unfortunately you cannot do much against bad code unless you´re the coder.

 

 

When you do have a lock-up or things are slowing down, REFORMAT. Suspect a virus, REFORMAT. Yeah it'll cost you a day to recover, it sucks but it leaves no doubt as to starting clean.

 

Well, when using some application like "Acronis True Image" and doing regular backups (full and/or incremental), you can play back any previously working system within minutes,- or recover your complete machine incl. content of 3 HDDs in about an hour.

 

I do it a bit different, clone each harddrive separately w/ Acronis and have some HDDS in spare.

 

Windows Tweaks: I guess... although I don't recall much here. I think there were a couple of things to disable in the BIOS (ooohh!) but may have been disabled by default anyway.

 

For music all the EIST (Intel Speed Step Technology) should be disabled, in most cases Hyperthreading too as well as "turbo boost".

When some stuff is disturbing the audio, in most cases it´s some USB device driver sharing ressources w/ the audio card.

It´s easily recognizable in device manager when set to "ressources by type" and "interupt" under the view tab.

When somthing shares IRQ w/ your audio card, disable it.

There are so many USB drivers available in any system you will always have enough even you disable some.

Every pair of "internal" USB ports on the mobo loads a driver which can easily share IRQ but there´s nothing connected.

So, I don´t mean the ones where you connect something from the outside.

 

I got into overclocking for a while ... fast with no over clock and 5 years old. It's amazing that there's nothing available today that blows this away. Most of the advances have been towards power saving, not speed and so my initially expensive home made PC cost over that 5 years is extremely low.

 

I agree 100% !

 

Some DSP hardware doesn´t like overclocking, some works flawlessly ...

 

When the machine is fast enough @stock speed, keep it at stock speed.

 

My homemade rackmount PCs pay for themselves all day and run Presonus Studio One Pro, Reaper, Reason, NI Komplete and more.

 

Even my oldest Intel P4 northwood machine works like day one,- the processor is about 13 years old and there´s the 1st set of RAMBUS RAM inside.

Today, most don´t know what RAMBUS RAM is at all because it´s so old,- but it was fast.

 

To be fair,- my old MACs,- G3 beige 266MHz, G4 Gigabit Ethernet Dual desktops, Powerbook G3 Lombard and Powerbook G4 800 DVI,- they all still work too.

They run all the old software, Logic 4.8 w/ serial dongle, Logic 6.4.3 w/ the USB key, Emagic Sounddiver 3.0.5 as also Opcode Galaxy+ Editors and Studio Vision together w/ MOTU, Opcode and Emagic MIDI interfaces.

 

A.C.

 

[Al Coda]

Is there a sequencer with all the plugins included like Logic?

 

I don´t think so,- but it also depends on what you mean when you say "all the plugins".

 

You will never get exactly the same like Logic´s plugin palette in a different application.

 

Presonus Studio One Pro v3 comes w/ many plugins which do cover most if not all what you need to produce music, but it´s not the same.

But it lacks the MIDI notation editor.

 

A.C.

[ElmerJFudd]

Logic is pretty awesome - and what's bundled plugin wise, instrument and audio FX/tools is probably the most capable you will find. Full version of Cubase is quite good too but they still like to sell their development time on some of the coolest stuff as add ons. Similar with Digital Performer. Pro Tools has added stuff in recent years mainly through their relationship with Air. The full version doesn't even have a good audio spectrum and metering suite. Bluecat and Span are free and available as AAX. Anyway, point being - Logic is still awesome as a composer's tool box in one package and with MainStage you get the instruments and FX in a live player's GUI.

[Markay]

A lot of discussion about a pretty simple equation - OSX plus Logic or MainStage ends up being lineball cost wise when compared with Windows plus DAW with the same range of plugins.

 

On the hardware side you can buy Windows desktops and Laptops with exactly the same components that Apple use. I have had zero hardware failures with these over 4 years and expect I would have had the same experience with their MBP twins.

[Markyboard]

Forgot to mention I'm on Win10 for the last 6 months or so. I was on Win7, planned to stay there but MS had other plans. Fortunately Win 10 has been just as stable.

 

I should have mentioned that I never get the BSOD. Reaper occasionally (as in hardly ever) shuts down on me - usually when I'm messing with some new (to me) plug-in that could be a really old plug-in.

 

I'm sure all this IRQ and Interrupt talk scares some people. I've read similar before but it's never been an issue for me and I never had conflicts with USB. But what you say makes sense.

 

I've never tried any of the imaging apps, mostly because I have seldom need to recover. But when I do I figure its time for a clean install. I like to select exactly what's going back on my system. An imaged back-up may have older stuff that I no longer need. But thanks Peter- I now do recognize the advantage of such an application and it's a valid point.

 

Logic is wonderful. If I went back to a Mac it would be a no-brainer. I can't think of anything on Windows that comes close to the package Logic offers. But then again I have Komplete and use a very small percentage of it. So in some sense having all this "stuff" included with the DAW may or may not really be that beneficial, as opposed to hand picking the exact plug-ins I need. Reaper does have a ton of audio and midi processing plug-ins that I'm always happy to find exist when I need them. I'm sure other DAWs (both Mac and WIN) do as well.

 

A lot of discussion about a pretty simple equation - OSX plus Logic or MainStage ends up being lineball cost wise when compared with Windows plus DAW with the same range of plugins.

 

I have no idea Mark but you may be right. If I had Logic would I forgo Komplete, Diva, Ivory, Broken Wurlie, Monark, Korg Legacy or any of the others I bought? Reaper cost me $60 x2 for the last 6+ years IIRC and Win 10 was free (so far). But again, it doesn't matter. I didn't chose to go Win/PC to save money and I'm sure same is true for those that chose Mac.

[Doerfler]

Fortunately Win 10 has been just as stable.

 

I have not had any issues running Kontakt, Pianoteq, Cantablie, or any of the G Force instruments stand alone in Windows 10. Agree with Markyboard if I went back to Apple computer Logic would be a no brainer.

[JoJoB3]

I've avoided all Apple products like the plague.

 

Al Coda's reply is pretty spot on here btw.

[aronnelson]

> But it lacks the MIDI notation editor

 

Wow. Every since I started using Logic, I never looked back, but was hoping there was another similar solution for Windows. I guess it doesn't matter - too entrenched with Macintosh at this point.

 

My Mac Pro with 32GB ram should last a while unless it burns out or something.

[Aidan]

Well, I did a bit of 'remote' keyboard tracking for someone in my studio yesterday and I was reminded how much I'm used to working quickly and easily in Logic, so along with the other stuff, it's kind of tipped the scales for me. I will try a completely clean install again on the machine over the holiday break, then if that's still problematic, it'll be time to seek out a used tower Mac Pro.

[Markyboard]

> But it lacks the MIDI notation editor

 

Wow. Every since I started using Logic, I never looked back, but was hoping there was another similar solution for Windows. I guess it doesn't matter - too entrenched with Macintosh at this point.

 

Just for your awareness Reaper very recently added this capability (finally) and it's constantly being improved. I haven't had much need for it up to this point and have no idea how it compares to Logic, but it is a nice free update.

 

[Markyboard]

I will try a completely clean install again on the machine over the holiday break, then if that's still problematic, it'll be time to seek out a used tower Mac Pro.

 

That sounds like a very sensible approach.

[Stokely]

Ableton Live has a lot of instruments and content, and I think Sonor does too (iirc this was formerly Cakewalk, which I used to use on Windows 3.1 unless my memory is faulty!!!)

 

If I couldn't use Logic anymore, I'd probably go the Reaper route and have all instruments be daw-agnostic (in case I ever wanted to/had to switch daws again). It is true the cost would add up quickly to replace everything I use within Logic.