SteveC Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well, I got a call from one of the local "studios" to do a few session next week. Don't know the singer or piano player, but I know the guitar player and have played with the drummer before. The song list is all standards. It's Impossible, Young at Heart, Summer Wind, Moon River, you get the idea. I have some sheet music (basic piano/vocal parts with guitar chords) and a reference CD. The goal is 3-4 songs a session for a 12 song CD. Haven't done any studio playing except a long time ago for my own bands demo CD. I am very familiar with the style. Played it many times. They said $60 a song. I have no idea if that's good or bad. It's just a studio in a guys house. I don't know what kind of distribution this think will get. The songs are simple, if the other guys are prepared we should be able to do them fairly quickly. Of course, I know anything can happen so we'll see, but if we can knock out 3-4 songs in a few hours, I think that would be OK. I figured I'd give it a shot and see how it goes. If it works out OK, hopefully I get more calls. If not, I've learned something. Any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Relax and have fun. The pay is a little low, but if the session goes quickly it will add up to something ok. One guideline is to figure out how much you would get paid for a four hour gig, because that's essentially what you are going to be doing. Unless these guys have some kind of following, they're probably not going to make much money on the cd. I'd say that if they meet their expenses they will have done ok. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Relax and have fun. The pay is a little low, but if the session goes quickly it will add up to something ok. One guideline is to figure out how much you would get paid for a four hour gig, because that's essentially what you are going to be doing. Unless these guys have some kind of following, they're probably not going to make much money on the cd. I'd say that if they meet their expenses they will have done ok. Well, around here, I play from 7-10 and get $80 - $100. $60 X 12 songs = $720. Significantly better. At that rate, even if it's 2 songs an hour I still come out ahead. I'm hoping everyone will be prepared and we can knock these tunes out quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Still will be fun..... if you have the time to do it.... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 One guideline is to figure out how much you would get paid for a four hour gig... and then divide by four to get your hourly rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Malone Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Something to keep in mind about recording. Recording should be paid by the end use of the recording not the time spent in the studio. Examples would be that one should be paid differently for a demo or vanity CD recording than recording for a film, etc. Wally I have basses to play, places to be and good music to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Something to keep in mind about recording. Recording should be paid by the end use of the recording not the time spent in the studio. Examples would be that one should be paid differently for a demo or vanity CD recording than recording for a film, etc. Wally Very true. If you check out the ASK A PRO sections over at Talkbass this very subject comes up with some regularity. And I've seen some top session guys say that they're willing to work with people based on their budget as well as what the final product of the recording session will be. Above all? Relax and have some fun. I played a session a week ago, and the key for me getting into my part was simply the act of getting relaxed. Once I was able to get into that easy-going headspace, everything flowed. Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think it will be a pretty easy session. I did some research and You Tube yielded some insight to the singer... Apparently he goes around sining for a certain demographic of listener with background CD's. Not sure if we're making a new karaoke CD for him or an actual CD. As far as pay, I have nothing to compare it to, and remember, we're talking little studio in small rural town. This ain't NY or LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 So these have the potential to be his backing tracks at club dates? Hmmm. $60 per song seems a little low if that's the case. Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 The guy is shelling out $60/song/instrument for 12 songs and 4 instruments. That's $5,040 and doesn't include studio time. (Assuming 3 songs a session, 4-hour sessions and a cheap $25/hour rate makes the studio cost $400 minimum; let's say $600 including mixing/mastering.) Personally I don't think he'll make his investment back. At best he may break even. Yes, he has one CD on CD Baby. If it sells better than a vanity I'd be surprised. The YouTube is of him playing a benefit, which typically means gratis (i.e. free). He has no upcoming shows posted on his Facebook or Myspace pages. Still, let's say he sells 50 CDs and does 50 shows over the next 4 years. That's 50*$10=$500 in CD sales and 50*$125=$6,250 in shows for $6,750 gross. He spent $5,640 to record the CD so his net is $1,110. He probably spent some money on gas getting to the gigs -- let's say $350 -- and his net goes down to $760. Still on the positive, but that comes out to $15.20 per show ($3.80/hour after expenses). Now, if the venues actually paid more than $125 for a live 4-hour show he could just hire you guys to play the gigs and save the cost of recording. You'd all end up with $5,000 gross over 4 years, minus $350 in gas for $4,650 net. (That clocks in at $23.25/hour after expenses.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Of course it could also be this guy is playing 4 nights a week over in your little oil boomtown and making a killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddiePlaysBass Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 You guys are over-thinking this one!! SteveC: - gets paid- gets some reference work recorded- gets paid! That's all there's to it! "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 You guys are over-thinking this one!! SteveC: - gets paid - gets some reference work recorded - gets paid! That's all there's to it! That's what I'm thinking - even though it may not be the reference work I'd like recorded.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 First session was ok...we got 2 tunes in the can. There was a little confusion on if we were playing the sheet or the sample CD. Now that we are clear on that, I think we'll come to the next session (Thursday) a little more prepared. The drummer is good. The guitar player shouldn't be there. The piano player is OK but they all looked at me like I had 3 heads when I said it's just a series of 2,5,1's. The drummer has a better understanding of harmony. Yikes. Hopefully everyone does their homework. I plan on making copies of my notated lead sheets for everyone for next time. Hopefully less waiting for people to take notes. I felt like I needed to take charge as little as no one else was. The drummer helped with that as well. An interesting experience. They are all nice people, just a little over their heads for some of the tunes and not very experienced in the studio. Of course, it is the first time we've played together so that takes time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butcherNburn Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Remember, and this goes for almost all types of "work", your time is worth something. I came to this realization when someone told me how they saved $40 on a project by taking an entire weekend to do it themselves. Since I wasn't too fond of this person, I showed him how he "paid himself" $2.67 and hour. He was making about $60k at the time on his 9-5 job. If you spend 8 hours sitting around waiting for someone else to get their parts right, and you come in and work through it in 15 minutes at the end, you are worth more than just the 15 minutes. The per song pay is worth it only in relevance to the time. If everyone has their stuff together great, but if not, or someone is such a perfectionist it becomes counter productive, it could be a disaster. Plus sitting around stinks. If you think my playing is bad, you should hear me sing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Remember, and this goes for almost all types of "work", your time is worth something. I came to this realization when someone told me how they saved $40 on a project by taking an entire weekend to do it themselves. Since I wasn't too fond of this person, I showed him how he "paid himself" $2.67 and hour. He was making about $60k at the time on his 9-5 job. If you spend 8 hours sitting around waiting for someone else to get their parts right, and you come in and work through it in 15 minutes at the end, you are worth more than just the 15 minutes. The per song pay is worth it only in relevance to the time. If everyone has their stuff together great, but if not, or someone is such a perfectionist it becomes counter productive, it could be a disaster. Plus sitting around stinks. Yes. Agree. It does. If it takes as long as it did last night for every song = not good. Lesson learned about doing something with these people. No perfectionists. The 2 tunes we put in the can last night were not perfect (my part was pretty darn good though) but close enough for the guy with the checkbook so... I'm thinking that the next session will be the "deal breaker" for me. Not that I would just leave them hanging - I'll finish the project because I said I would - but I'll need to know a lot more info before I agree to do something with this studio again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 On the bright side - the Geddy Lee has been performing well lately. Live for church it has been great. The board recordings from church and a couple fill in gigs have been nice, too. The early playbacks from the first session sounded nice - even through no name DI's, headphones and studio monitors. I've been GAS'ing for a Roscoe 5 but I've been pretty happy with the Geddy so maybe I'll hang on to my money for a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 that's unpossible. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddiePlaysBass Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Face it, you said the three-letter acronym. We all know what comes next. "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 I've held strong for a while. My wife has no faith in me either so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddiePlaysBass Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Didn't you used to have a Roscoe 5? Hang in there, man! We're here for you (and not just to take the mickey out of you). Now let's hear about the rest of them sessions - once they took place. "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Didn't you used to have a Roscoe 5? Hang in there, man! We're here for you (and not just to take the mickey out of you). Now let's hear about the rest of them sessions - once they took place. I did but...anyway, session 2 is tonight. I am prepared to do 4 songs. We'll see tonight how well everyone else did their homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Well. I did my homework. We finally used the pitch shift on the keyboard to get the first song done. The second tune came a little easier. I decided that for the next session I would take charge - in a nice way. I made sure everyone had the form and changes before I left tonight. Hopefully well be on the same page and den nail 3 tunes next time. So, about 6 hours and 4 tunes are done. $240 earned so far. I hope next time we get 3 done in the 2 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Three tunes in 2 hours is pushing it a little, even with a well-rehearsed band. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Three tunes in 2 hours is pushing it a little, even with a well-rehearsed band. Maybe, but one is a really simple standard lead sheet with no changes to the chords or form. I can't imagine it taking more than 30 minutes. The other 2 have been played thru a few times, but now that I gave them chords and specific road map, I think they'll go more quickly as well. I can hope, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Sessions are going pretty well. We did 3 tunes in a couple hours last time. I have kind of taken charge (in a polite way) so that has helped a little. We needed some direction. I thought I'd post a pic of the gear...pretty old school. No ProTools here... http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8080/8323545236_50b2ba316e.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFLA Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 What bass are you using for this? Curious minds and all... Jim Confirmed RoscoeHead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Sticking with the Geddy Lee as that's what I started with and that's what everyone is use to hearing - including me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 16 Track 1" analog? That's definitely old school. Some of my first recording in the mid 90's was done on a tape machine just like that. But I haven't played a session to tape like that for almost 10 years. And the last session I can recall playing to tape was at a studio with a 24 track 2" machine. Everything I've recorded for the past decade plus has been to either ProTools or Cakewalk's SONAR platform. It's astounding to see how much recording technology has changed, but it's also cool to see that some of the old ways are standing the test of time. And I'm sure some engineers will extole the virtues of tape compression. But what I remember the most about those sessions to tape is how you would go about punching fixes to your parts. You had to play the part straight through, and you couldn't necessarily start at a strategic spot for a difficult passage. You had to depend on the engineer or tape op to punch you in and out at just the right time to make the punch sound natural. Oh, how times have changed! Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Thankfully the drummer and I have been pretty solid. The others may have to go back in and try a couple things again. The last session I did was a ProTools session. There are some definite pluses to digital. I don't have enough experience to tell a difference but the tape playbacks sound pretty nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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