In-Ear Monitor Recommendations?

[Suntower]

Looking for recommendation on in-ear monitors. Gigs are anything from 100 (bar) to 1,500. Usually being in the back of the stage I rarely get my own monitor mix so I either hear -me- OK or the band OK and rarely is everyone happy with the blend if I can hear -me- well. On most gigs (upright or jazz bass) I'm thinking I don't even need an amp---just a decent DI with a 'splitter'... one output to the mixer and the other to the in-ears. Suggestions?

 

I know they used to be VERY expensive, but I've been told there are less expensive ones now that are OK now. I also guess I'd need some sort of 'headphone amp'?

 

TIA... JC

[J. Dan]

We are all on IEM's. Thing is, you almost have to go all or nothing.

 

We have our own monitor rack. EVERYTHING runs through our 16 ch splitter snake. We have a A&H wixwizzard mixer, and 4 Shure PSM200 systems and 1 wired headphone amp for the drummer. Most od us have upgraded the ears to go with the systems, generally in the $250 range each.

 

So, $1500 for the splitter, $1000 for the mixer, $600 for each wireless system, plus rack and accessories, and another $250 if you wantthe best sound. Roughly $1300 a man for a 5-pc. We make that new years eve...may or may not be worth it for you.

[Suntower]

Yeah, that's outside my budget. I play with several bands of varying sizes. In each case, I invariably get plenty of everyone else... just not -me-. My hope is to get something inexpensive that will let me hear -me- better and still get the rest of the band sound from everyone else's monitor spill.

 

Anyone got anything like that? I can see spending $300 for everything I need (earphones/amp).

 

Thanks,

 

---JC

[rumpelstiltskin.]

is your whole band going IEM or just you? if it's just you, and you have an AUX bus available on your mixer, you can set your own mix using the AUX send on each channel and connect a headphone amp to the AUX out for that bus. you could do that for under $100 including cables. including the whole band is more problematic.

 

robb.

[Suntower]

Like I said... I just want to monitor -me-. I get plenty of everyone else from the band's monitor spill.

 

So I'm looking for IEM and a headphone amp. I'd just like to take a feed from my DI box into these so I can hear me better without having to worry about turning up my amp (and thus ruining the rest of the band's on-stage mix.)

 

---JC

[rumpelstiltskin.]

i would be very careful about putting just you in the mix. you might be surprised at how difficult it makes it to hear anyone else. i have never been happy with a mix of just me.

 

but if that's all you want, take your pick of headphone amps. i would still consider something like this, which at least hypothetically gives you the option of adding the whole band mix.

 

robb.

[jeremy c]

I would still consider something like this, which at least hypothetically gives you the option of adding the whole band mix.

robb.

Something like that would make a great inexpensive "more me" box for a bass player in the studio.

 

Come out of the monitor mix into that box and plug an output out of the direct box into the mic input and you can get the band mix with your bass turned up.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

exactly.

 

what's funny is i think the intent was the opposite. it's meant to have a vocal mic in the XLR input and a CD or complete mix in the line input. i think. but i keep seeing "more me" in it, too. it has a gain control for a reason. you'll need a lot less gain for a line signal than a mic signal, and then the instrument DI goes into the line input. seems pretty easy and pretty useful.

[Suntower]

That's a great idea. Thanks! I have put off getting an IEM because basically every friend of mine who uses them has gone through 2-3 types before finding 'the one'. I just can't afford that trial and error on an item that is non-returnable.

 

---JC

 

 

i would be very careful about putting just you in the mix. you might be surprised at how difficult it makes it to hear anyone else. i have never been happy with a mix of just me.

 

but if that's all you want, take your pick of headphone amps. i would still consider something like this, which at least hypothetically gives you the option of adding the whole band mix.

 

robb.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

yes, finding monitors that sound good and are comfortable is no small task. since i work for a major name in the audio industry, i get employee discounts on AKG (and digitech and dbx, too). i really love my AKG IP2 IEMs, but i think they are only sold to consumers as a package with a wireless transceiver. a co-worker of mine is very happy with his shure IEMs, but i think he paid around $100 for them. that is the entry point for shure's IEMs. however, based on my experience with custom-fit earplugs, i would suggest it's very well worth the $300 to get custom-fit IEMs. nothing will be as comfortable or offer as reliable low end as custom.

[Suntower]

Thanks. I will probably hold off then. I got my hopes up because I had noticed several recent models under $100... and several articles saying the even the low $ single driver models sounded better nowadays. But those articles invariably focus on singers/guitar players---not LOW END.

 

In every band I basically stand in back, next to a small amp (or not). I get all the spill from the other guys' monitors. If I turn up -my- amp, they bitch. If I turn it down, they try turning me up in the house because they think we're bass light. But spending $300-$500 on something that may or may not work (and can't be re-sold or returned) would be foolish if the other members aren't doing the same.

 

Thanks again. I learned a lot.

 

---JC

 

 

yes, finding monitors that sound good and are comfortable is no small task. since i work for a major name in the audio industry, i get employee discounts on AKG (and digitech and dbx, too). i really love my AKG IP2 IEMs, but i think they are only sold to consumers as a package with a wireless transceiver. a co-worker of mine is very happy with his shure IEMs, but i think he paid around $100 for them. that is the entry point for shure's IEMs. however, based on my experience with custom-fit earplugs, i would suggest it's very well worth the $300 to get custom-fit IEMs. nothing will be as comfortable or offer as reliable low end as custom.

[J. Dan]

Let me be clear: the way we do it is the absolute ideal way to do it. There are many ways to shave cost. In any setup, I would discourage "only you" in your ears - you need some rudimentary mix.

[Suntower]

Let me be clear: the way we do it is the absolute ideal way to do it. There are many ways to shave cost. In any setup, I would discourage "only you" in your ears - you need some rudimentary mix.

 

No, I get it... Though mom taught me never to trust hunchbacks, Robb's suggestion with the little mixer/pre-amp gizmo makes perfect sense. What -doesn't- make sense to me is the transducer itself.

 

Frankly, I started this topic because I've seen a crop of adverts for new IEMs that are under $100 that are well-reviewed. I was -hoping- some bassists would say 'Oh yeah, times have changed, the $99 ones are perfectly fine for bass.' But what I'm -hearing- (no pun intended) is that one still needs to spend several hundred dollars to get a decent sound... -and- since they aren't returnable, it may take a few tries to get the right ones. I can't afford to experiment @ those prices.

 

At some point... as with phones/tvs/etc. the prices will come down and I'll do it then, I guess.

 

Thanks,

 

 

---JC

[rumpelstiltskin.]

$100 are perfectly fine for bass. you will be amazed at the sound. but i'm such a fan of the fit and feel of my custom molded earplugs that i suggest custom molding whenever possible. $100 shure IEMs sound great -- certainly more than adequate for bass in live performance. and there are plenty of other options at that price point.

 

i think your approach is reasonable. $250 for a monitor box, IEMs, tax and/or shipping is a reasonable budget, too.

 

robb.

[J. Dan]

One thing to consider when using IEM's for bass (and vocals), is the low end response and bleed from subwoofers. Many of the IEM's that sound great with a CD are horrible for stage monitoring because low end and highs are accentuated. The IEM's block out a lot of the ambient sound, but some low end from the FOH subwoofers make it through. Often, to get clarity, you need more mids in the IEM's, but if they are bass heavy, turning them up doesn't help. You'll have them cranked and your bass will sound like mud. I thought I was upgrading by buying an expensive pair only to find them unusable and non-returnable. You're right, it's trial and error and can get expensive if you don't get it right. In my experience, you're better off with higher end single driver IEM's than the dual driver. But do yourself a favor and buck up for ones with replaceable cables - I went through 1-2 sets per year until I got the ones with replaceable cables - cables are cheaper than a whole new set. FWIW, I'm currently using the Shure 315's (that's not the full model, but I forget the letters they put in front of it). After trying multiple sets and being unhappy, our bass player switched to them now and is also happy with them.

[azucar4u]

Just do it......Shure PSM200 system !!!!

[sonofabill]

Hi Everyone, I am looking to do a similar type of setup and found this thread archived. I am pretty much sold at this point on getting the Sure PSM200 System as my entry level start with this technology. I have a quick question though. For alot of situations, I really dont want to even have to bother the soundman with setup. I would like to have the wireless transmitter right on my pedalboard with one direct input from my bass and be able to pull out whatever cord is going into the wedge, and plug it right into the wireless transmitter, and be good to go without even having to ask the sound guy to get involved in my wireless setup. Do the monitor wedges in clubs always have either a 3-pin XLR or a 1/4 Inch plug? Is this going to be possible? Let me know your thoughts, thanks!!! Greg

[rumpelstiltskin.]

Do the monitor wedges in clubs always have either a 3-pin XLR or a 1/4 Inch plug? Is this going to be possible?

 

no and no. you will want a stereo feed from the monitor mix they'd be sending to your wedge, or FOH at the very least. i don't know why people are so allergic to sound engineers. i mean, i know some of them are real buffoons, but many of us are not much smarter. at the very least, we're less apt to be able to get useful solutions to our problems on our own.

 

 

i really love my AKG IP2 IEMs, but i think they are only sold to consumers as a package with a wireless transceiver. a co-worker of mine is very happy with his shure IEMs, but i think he paid around $100 for them.

 

yes, i'm quoting myself. after two years of nearly daily use, my AKG IP2 set failed, so i bought a new set. man, i love these. and i found that they are available online for $100. i don't know if that's shady or through official dealers. my co-worker whose shure IEMs crapped out on him finally also got a set of IP2 and said they're way better. we both get the employee price on the IP2, if you know what i'm saying, so take any endorsement i make with a grain of salt.

[sonofabill]

OK, how about my question?

[J. Dan]

OK, how about my question?

 

The only way to not bother the sound guy is to have your own monitor rig with a splitter, drop him a split, mix your own IEM's. Otherwise he has to do your mix and run you a send.

[Nicklab]

OK, how about my question?

 

The signal that's feed an onstage wedge is almost certainly the output of a power amp. How do I know this? Let's go through the signal chain:

 

On stage you're going to have a number of sources that are feeding the mixing desk in a club: Vocal microphones, instrument microphones & perhaps 1 or 2 DI's. All of those elements are mixed and effected for the FOH mix.

 

After that those elements are mixed for on stage monitor mixes. The number of mixes depends on the scale you're working at. Those mixes are sent to power amps which power the monitors on stage. However, even though those signals are being sent via a speaker cable (which MAY have a 1/4" connector) to the wedge are not at line level, which is the level you're going to want for your in-ear mix.

 

Make sense now?

[sonofabill]

Thank you both.

 

Well, kinda....

 

Basically I want to unplug the wedge, throw the cable going into the wedge into the transmitter so whatever the sound guy normally has to do when soundchecking the band doesnt affect him at all, I am perfectly happy getting the monitor mix in my IEMs. But I will also put a direct cable from an output on my volume pedal for only my bass into the transmitter so I can mix my bass with the mix the sound guy is giving me, if I want to increase or decrease the bass I am getting in my headset.

 

Are you saying I have to take the signal directly from before the power amps, versus the cable that normally goes directly into the wedge?

[J. Dan]

Are you saying I have to take the signal directly from before the power amps, versus the cable that normally goes directly into the wedge?

 

Yes

 

You cannot run a speaker cable into your psm200. He could maybe split th signal going to the monitor amp to drop you a line into your PSM200, or more likely, ditchthe monitor altogether and run that return to your psm200 instead of the monitor amp.

[sonofabill]

That's a bummer. I was hoping this would be easy. Where is the "monitor amp" usually located? So the chain is mixing board-->monitor amp-->wedge, and I have to get my signal straight from the mixing board? It just doesnt make sense to me that it cant take the speaker cable, as a fitting plug for it is on the transmitter.

[sonofabill]

I imagine if the speaker cable that goes into the wedge was put into the PSM200 it would be distorted or something?

[J. Dan]

That's a bummer. I was hoping this would be easy. Where is the "monitor amp" usually located? So the chain is mixing board-->monitor amp-->wedge, and I have to get my signal straight from the mixing board? It just doesnt make sense to me that it cant take the speaker cable, as a fitting plug for it is on the transmitter.

 

Usually there is an amp rack somewhere on or near the stage with all the amps for FOH sound and monitors. There's a snake between the stage and mixer that carries 12, 16, 24, or 32 XLR's from the stage, and a number of "returns" which will carry the mixed down signal for FOH and the monitor mixes for stage.

[J. Dan]

I imagine if the speaker cable that goes into the wedge was put into the PSM200 it would be distorted or something?

 

Once the smoke comes out, it's hard to get it back in.

[sonofabill]

This just rules out the option of me keeping everything on my pedal board, and it being a simple process. Bummer!

[jeremy c]

A simple suggestion: Get your bass speaker up higher (at ear level) and then you won't have to be as loud to hear yourself and then the other people won't complain. Maybe that way you'll also be able to hear what you need from the rest of the band as well.

[sonofabill]

Thanks Jeremy. My sudden huge frustruation comes after the first gig I had with my amplifier on a tilt stand pointing directly at my head. I used musicians earplugs and I was standing right in front of it with it tilted up at me, and for some songs it was too loud, others completely swallowed by guitar volume or other stage noise, literally couldnt hear my notes. There are certain songs in my band where sometimes the frequencies cancel one another out. I really want separation. I want to always know that I can control the balance of what I hear on stage and be satisfied. The constant shift in quality of dynamic from stage to stage is really frustruating me.