GreySeraph Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 So, it's basically a cylindrical extension of the sound-hole protruding a little way onto the guitar's interior? How do you think it would work for steel-string flat-tops? Or even something similar on the "F-Holes" of archtops? (I have yet to view the vid you posted; letting it load now while I have some lunch... ) Sorta. The thing is, the tornavoz isnt cylindrical, but actually conic. The video shows that, originally, the tornavoz was made to go all the way to the back of the instrument, but that it was too much of an extreme in terms of the "EQing" of the instrument and that it was impossible to fix the instrument if cracks arose on the body of the guitar. The tornavoz never actually tapers to a tip, but does taper to a hypothetical point (I think that such a shape is part of why it focuses the basses so well). As far as steel strings are concerned, yeah it would definitely work, but any good steel string is already set. I'd probably bring a tornavoz into play if the guitar's too bright, or the guitar has more than 6 strings. Planet waves makes something similar called the O-Port (which they state is REVOLUTIONARY AND BRAND NEW IN IDEA *cough*bullsh!#) http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=1Sw&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=o+port+guitar&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=13495810603214944568&sa=X&ei=-HdyTaDoMIb2swPs0Pi6Cw&ved=0CDsQ8wIwAw# That being said, different materials will probably make for slight tonal variation. I've personally heard both brass and rosewood tornavoz'ed guitars and there's definitely something different going on (obviously I cant be conclusive in my statement though, because there's SOOO many factors to any two different guitars). Regarding archtops, I'm not so sure how resonance travels across a carved top, but it does seem that the placement of the f holes has less impact on the tone as it does on the placement of a soundhole on a classical/steel string guitar. I have no idea how you would modify a tornavoz to fit an f-hole. My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Even though it's not the reason for having the tornavoz, I couldn't help wondering if it helps to avoid feedback when mic'ing the guitar? and if the mic should be placed closer or further back during live performances? and what affect it might have on an undersaddle type of pickup? :idk Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Even though it's not the reason for having the tornavoz, I couldn't help wondering if it helps to avoid feedback when mic'ing the guitar? and if the mic should be placed closer or further back during live performances? and what affect it might have on an undersaddle type of pickup? :idk That is definitely a question I've never dealt with. I definitely prefer mics over pickups on classical guitars (piezos and the like are waaaaay too heavy on the attack for my taste). I definitely know that putting a mic INSIDE the guitar versus IN FRONT of the guitar is a huge difference in sound (they make lots of different mics for both situations, where the external mics problems involve gathering noise from the environment, while the internal mic will have feedback problems if facing a stage monitor). I've never played an amplified performance with my Hippner 8 string (only with my Byers 6 string, which doesnt have a tornavoz), so it'd be cool to see if it does. Could someone answer me this: How does a soundhole cover stop feedback? I know the soundhole is only for air to go in and out of the guitar and the actual sound comes from the soundboard, so does that mean the soundhole cover dampens the resonance of the soundboard? or what? My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I don't use a soundhole cover so I'll let the experts chime in...but if I had to make a guess, I think it's closing off that air hole that makes the magicical anti-feedback work, more so than the soundboard resonance...hollow and semi hollow body guitars are prone to feedback more whenever you turn and face the amp than solid bodies...so, it's kind of like making that acoustic hollow body into a solid body concept...my newer Nylon acoustic Taylor has a printed circut board inside the sounhole near the neck with a phase switch to cut feed back without using a soundhole cover...and some guitar designs can help cut feedback without a cover...but you do see a lot of big name pros using the soundhole cover and it may be a bigger problem in bigger venues due to increased volume levels :idk Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 new photos should be in by tonight My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 :cool: ... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but it FINALLY came in!!! http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/255107_1967154892085_1039290076_31971652_5626522_n.jpg Sorry for the low-res. I'll be taking some better photos with a friend this upcoming week! Gosh this thing is so much fun to play! I named her Esperanza, which is a Spanish name that means hope. My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvuksanovich Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Sweet. How does she sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Hey Dan how've you been? The guitar sounds awesome btw! I'm still getting used to the new technique, but as soon as I feel comfortable, I'll record a little etude or something and post it up here. Also, here's some other pictures: http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263407_1968729131440_1039290076_31974032_6403899_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/253759_1968730211467_1039290076_31974033_6178502_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/255157_1968731291494_1039290076_31974034_7092856_n.jpg kinda hard to see the endspike but it's there My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 That looks way way nice, can`t wait to hear it! Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvuksanovich Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Been doing well. In the woodshed a lot lately. Excited to hear a recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruupi Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I get dizzy even looking at that thing, but I bet it plays and sounds nice once you get used to it. My soundclick site: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=397188 My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/gruupi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Niiiiiiice! Looks sharp. Glad you've finally got it in your mitts, and I bet you are, too! Could someone answer me this: How does a soundhole cover stop feedback? I know the soundhole is only for air to go in and out of the guitar and the actual sound comes from the soundboard, so does that mean the soundhole cover dampens the resonance of the soundboard? or what? With the soundhole covered, the excursion of the top is limited when the body essentially cannot suck air in or blow air out through the soundhole, similar to the way a speaker-cone's movement is limited in a closed-back cabinet as opposed to an open-back or ported cab. This tightens-up and limits the response of the guitar body, particularly the low-mids and lows, when it effectively behaves like a big wooden microphone under mic'ed and amplified conditions. If anything, I'd guess that a tornavoz would actually increase feedback sensitivity and feedback-induced "wolf-tones". I'd be happy to be wrong, though. ...different materials will probably make for slight tonal variation. I've personally heard both brass and rosewood tornavoz'ed guitars and there's definitely something different going on (obviously I cant be conclusive in my statement though, because there's SOOO many factors to any two different guitars). I'd have to think that the mass of the tornavoz could affect the top, especially if it were made of some overly thick brass. And any tornavoz must almost certainly stiffen the surrounding top. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 @Skip and Dan: Still getting better at it guys! Put in a good 15 hrs of practicing just on the guitar this last weekend! Hopefully soon I can get a simple recording soon (I wanna do it right though, so I'll probably have to get some pro stuff done to do this guitar justice) @Gruupi: Dude she sounds more like a harp than anything I swear she sounds so huge! @Caev: Dude! Dude! Havent talked in a while! How are you? (And yes to all the soundport stuff. As far as the tornavoz stuff at the bottom, it deals with the density of the material. It's sorta like how rosewood sounds drier than blackwood as far as a side/back wood: their densities get vibrations to travel through it differently. Same with rosewood vs ebony fretboards. Those brittle, dense ebony fretboards sound like glass and super snappy compared to the rosewood, etc. Anyway, here's some HD pics for y'all: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267538_10150279997811779_39254306778_8807328_4591044_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/267538_10150279997816779_39254306778_8807329_207792_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267538_10150279997821779_39254306778_8807330_2069445_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/267538_10150279997826779_39254306778_8807331_6795897_n.jpg My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Wow, that's some sweet rosewood! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Yeah that back is just stunning. Take your time Grey, no pressure. I know you`re as nitpicky as the rest of us. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvuksanovich Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Beautiful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Hopefully soon I can get a simple recording soon (I wanna do it right though, so I'll probably have to get some pro stuff done to do this guitar justice) If you want a pro recording done, (& since you're in LA we're probably neighbors,) give me a shout. High end acoustic recording is my day gig. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 What's the standard tuning on that puppy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Hopefully soon I can get a simple recording soon (I wanna do it right though, so I'll probably have to get some pro stuff done to do this guitar justice) If you want a pro recording done, (& since you're in LA we're probably neighbors,) give me a shout. High end acoustic recording is my day gig. I may ask for it sometime I live in Placentia so it'd be a 45 min drive more or less. Got a website? What's the standard tuning on that puppy? AEADGBEA from lowest to highest. Highest string can hit a high E (24th fret on electric guitar high e string) The cool thing about the lowest string is I can tune it up to B or C if I want, if it would make it easier to play bass stuff (such as if I'm playing some piano arrangement in a high position in the key of B and I want to hit a low B using an open string, etc.) My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 That settles it. I must have a 9 string! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuskBuffer Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Hey Grey--sorry to be lookin' at your lady in such a way, but Esperanza is one sexy babe! You've got the best guitar You've got the best amp Now get the best pick! http://www.tuskbuffer.net TuskBuffer Mammoth Ivory Guitar Picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 That settles it. I must have a 9 string! Do it! Just give me the word and I'll give you my luthier's number ahaha Hey Grey--sorry to be lookin' at your lady in such a way, but Esperanza is one sexy babe! Don'tchu be eyein' mah girl. Hey btw Darryn, I REALLY need to hit you up for picks soon. Would you believe that, after losing my favorite 2.0 mm pick, the thinner one has been wearing down quite quickly (I play a LOT on it) and the skunk pick you sent me shattered at one of the seams today from lots of playing with hot hands after 3 hours of straight playing at my church's worship night? I absolutely miss my 2.0 mm mammoth pick! That thing was the ultimate trooper fosho. My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Hopefully soon I can get a simple recording soon (I wanna do it right though, so I'll probably have to get some pro stuff done to do this guitar justice) If you want a pro recording done, (& since you're in LA we're probably neighbors,) give me a shout. High end acoustic recording is my day gig. I may ask for it sometime I live in Placentia so it'd be a 45 min drive more or less. Got a website? No, no website yet. Just never had the time to put all that together. I can tell you whatever you might need to know, though, about available mics, preamps, approaches, etc. I get a lot of Cal Arts guys coming down here for sessions, which is also about 45 minutes, from the other direction. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 If you want a pro recording done, (& since you're in LA we're probably neighbors,) give me a shout. High end acoustic recording is my day gig. You still working with the Kronos Quartet, Scott? Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 If you want a pro recording done, (& since you're in LA we're probably neighbors,) give me a shout. High end acoustic recording is my day gig. You still working with the Kronos Quartet, Scott? Yup, this is my 20th year with them, both on the road & in the studio. Just got back from a big European tour a couple weeks back, heading over there again in July. They keep me pretty busy. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 Whoa working with the Kronos Quartet? Pretty dang sweet Scott! How long have you worked with them? And I had a question regarding how you would go about recording the Brahms guitar, considering that extra resonance is coming from a second sound source (namely, the soundbox that the guitar rests on). Would you use a lot of ambient mics? My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Whoa working with the Kronos Quartet? Pretty dang sweet Scott! How long have you worked with them? The coming season will be my 20th year with them. It's a great gig & they are truly great people. They've been a major part of my musical life for a very long time. And I had a question regarding how you would go about recording the Brahms guitar, considering that extra resonance is coming from a second sound source (namely, the soundbox that the guitar rests on). Would you use a lot of ambient mics? Definitely a lot of ambient mics. Generally for solo guitar I've been doing 3 stereo pairs: close, mid & distant, using Neumann KM84s up close in XY, Neumann TLM193s at mid distance in ORTF pattern, & wide spaced omni AKG C414s at a distance. Mic preamps by Millennia & Focusrite. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokair Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Not sure if this has been answered, and I am lazy. Whats the scale lengths, Low one and High one? I see that has been answed Can we get a close up of that Nut, Looks to compensated is it? That is a beautiful guitar, or is it technically called something else altogether ? I see Cello Guitar Now you gots me wanting one, thanks, Lok 1997 PRS CE24, 1981 Greco MSV 850, 1991 Greco V 900, 2 2006 Dean Inferno Flying Vs, 1987 Gibson Flying V, 2000s Jackson Dinky/Soloist, 1992 Gibson Les Paul Studio, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreySeraph Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 @Scott: Definitely we'll trade numbers soon man! Sounds like a lot of fun for sure. Do you also make videos? Not sure if this has been answered, and I am lazy. Whats the scale lengths, Low one and High one? I see that has been answed Can we get a close up of that Nut, Looks to compensated is it? That is a beautiful guitar, or is it technically called something else altogether ? I see Cello Guitar Now you gots me wanting one, thanks, Lok The nut is not compensated, unlike most of my other classicals. The reason for this is because it has a zero fret, which completely changes the whole situation. I chose this after much deliberation because I wanted the tone to be more similar across the board between open and fretted notes. Theyre not completely the same tone, but they're closer for sure. Here's a pic: http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270674_1986827463887_1039290076_31995820_390729_n.jpg Oh and the main name for it is a Brahms guitar. The name "cello guitar" is more colloquial. Both don't make a whole lot of sense though, as it's (other than the endspike) nothing like a cello, and brahms never wrote guitar music (Galbraith used this guitar to first arrange Brahms music for the guitar). Personally though, saying I play a Brahms guitar sounds more refined My Gear: 82 Gibson Explorer Ibanez 03 JEM7VWH PRS McCarty Soapbar Diezel Herbert 2007 Peters '11 Brahms Guitar Byers '01 Classical Hippner 8-Str Classical Taylor 614ce Framus Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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