mammoth ivory pick review!!

[Jim guthrie]

Tuskbuffer,

 

Yes tone is subjective. For example hawksbill turtle shell is dark in the mids,and well mellow. Some people love that,and that is fine except it comes with a $25,000.00 fine now. As for Ivory I said I liked the tone,and stiffness of Ivory they are very good playing,and sounding picks. I said the people in the study did not rate them which I thought was over looked. In the test we did two picks had superior grip the BD carbon,and the Blue Chip is also pretty good. The BD carbon is not polished like a Mechanial heart valve leaflet,and has a almost Velcro like grip.

When the Blue Chip's warm up they grip very good. With the BD carbon you can put them in water,and play with them wet or with baby oil on your fingers,and they grip like magic. long story short I know how to fix the grip problem with Ivory,and will give you that info if you send me a email. jim.guthrie@obbligatoinc.com why would I help another company? Well anything that gets people off trash picks helps You, Obbligato, Red Bear, and Blue Chip etc. Every player is different, and every pick design, and material is different. I like the BD carbon, Red Bear, Blue Chip, and Ivory. The Red Bear and Ivory grip problem is fixable,and I know how to do that,and it is not with holes or groves in the pick surface.

[skipclone 1]

Ya, I really think that having both of you guys and your expertise on this forum should be a big plus for everyone.

As I said elsewhere I have had the `satori` moment as far as the difference a great pick makes. Which is better, a great pick or a great pick? I don`t see grounds for a debate there.

[Jim guthrie]

Skipclone 1,

 

You are right the more you know about picks the better off you are. Because every player is different, and because everyone hears different, plays different instruments, strings etc. There is no such thing as a best pick in the world. Notice most high end pick makers say best pick in the workd. V-pick , Blue Chip, etc.

That is marketing garbage period. What is the best for you may not be for me. In fact after doing the study we found that it did not have anything with your with a players proficiency. Top pros were in it, and rank amature's. It is all over the place, and what I learned was what pick, and pick designs to give to what style of players. Most important is information, and I found that a lot of top pros don't know much about picks. I only use the BD carbon. Tuskbuffer may only use Ivory for several reasons. All picks have a learning cure some are long like the BD carbon some are short so be patient, and keep a open mind, and you will learn fast.

However I think if you look at all of the high end picks at the same time you will want a BD carbon, a Red Bear, a Blue Chip, and a Ivory and may be a Agate or a few others. Picks are one if not the most improtant tool a string instrument players has, and the most over looked, and the least know about. If you do the test for yourself your tone, and playing will improve no matter what level you are at.

[TuskBuffer]

First off, I hope nobody takes this interaction between me and Jim as squabbling. Sounds like we both have a lot to offer and we're both excited to bring these unique materials to real guitar players who can appreciate them. If this gets to be too much, just send one (or both) of us a cyber smack upside the head and we'll take it offline in PM.

 

The Red Bear and Ivory grip problem is fixable

 

Sounds like there was a misunderstanding. Ivory grips like CRAZY, giving the player more accuracy and stability when playing. [Danger: Science Nerd Alert in 3...2...1...] This is due to the fact that the ivory is slightly absorbant and effectively pulls itself onto your fingers like a vacuum as it tries to suck up the moisture from your fingers. Cool, huh?

 

I totally agree that holes and grooves do not help with grip at all with an inferior material (i.e. plastic). Plastic is still going to get sloppy no matter how many gimmicks one tries to use because it has no absorption. Plastic repels water and that is why plastic pics get slippery when wet--it's actually pushing your fingers away from itself. Not cool.

 

Now, grooves and divots do serve another purpose other than purely for grip, and that is comfort. For instance, Dunlop's Big Stubby 3 mm has a divot on the top and bottom, allowing for a thicker pick with a thinner feel. Other picks (Dugain) have a thumb groove and a finger groove--this allows for a completely different attack that some people prefer. I'm not about to tell somebody they should change the way they play to accomodate my design. It's a truer apples to apples comparison if I can offer people the design they already use in a different material. I'm not saying I can (or even want to) make every kind of pick design out there, but I like to have my bases well covered. If you have the ability to change up your design, I'm sure people will appreciate that.

 

why would I help another company? Well anything that gets people off trash picks helps You

Well said, and I'm sure that's why both of us are here. This is also the reason I made the offer to trade links (link to each other's websites). Who knows? Maybe we can even come up with a collaboration of some sort!

[TuskBuffer]

Ya, I really think that having both of you guys and your expertise on this forum should be a big plus for everyone.

As I said elsewhere I have had the `satori` moment as far as the difference a great pick makes. Which is better, a great pick or a great pick? I don`t see grounds for a debate there.

Very well said Skip, and I couldn't agree more. Thank you!

[Jim guthrie]

To be more concise I have a Fossilized Ivory pick we bought on ebay just before they stopped selling Ivory. It is polished, and the only reason I don't play it is because of the grip. I know how to fix that, and it would be good information for Tuskbuffer to have (Tusk buffer). The buffer part was what I was thinking about. I like Ivory for the tone not to bright not to dark hard to put in words great tone period. I only like stiff picks another great thing about Ivory. our web site is www.obbligatoinc.com my email address is jim.guthrie@obbligatoinc.com I do not want to post the grip improvement info I will give it to Tuskbuffer in a email though.

The main reason you don't see Ivory picks, and most of the other great picks in music stores much is because if they teach people this knowelege about high end picks they will sell more picks, and less new guitars, and effects boxes, and other equipment to people chasing tone, and trying to improve their playing, and or sound simple as that. When Tuskbuffer, and I get though educating people, and (I am still learning every day) people will start to demamd it. For example when I bought my Martin D41L in 1993 it had a micarta saddle that was not compensated. Even the First Acts at Walmart have compensated saddles now because people wised up. You can't give a acoustic guitar away now if the saddle in not compensated. Martin did not use Tusq for ten years until Taylor made it popular even though they, and everyone else knows bone in no good plugged in. Bill Collings (best traditional builder on earth) will not sell a guitar with a pickup just for that reason. He only uses bone nuts, and saddles.

[TuskBuffer]

To be more concise I have a Fossilized Ivory pick we bought on ebay just before they stopped selling Ivory. It is polished, and the only reason I don't play it is because of the grip.

Really? Maybe because it's actually fossilized, meaning that it has turned to stone (don't make me whip up another Science Nerd Alert!!! ). The stuff I use is old (like 25,000 years or so), but has been frozen in the Tundra and is still truly ivory. Whaddya say we trade picks? I'll email you and we'll work it out.

 

Has anybody else had a problem w/ the grip in my picks? The grip is part of what makes mammoth ivory exceptional in my opinion, and haven't heard any different from any of my customers...ever.

[Jim guthrie]

Remember there are three kinds of Ivory fossilized, Ivory not yet fossilized, and fresh killed. I have a fossilized, and I know how to fix the grip problem with it.

[TuskBuffer]

Ah...there's the difference. Mine is not fossilized (and certainly not fresh killed or even modern) and does not have any grip problem. I hope you'll take me up on my offer to trade picks--I'm looking forward to trying one of yours and giving you the opportunity to try one of mine!

 

To tell you the truth Jim, if we both go gangbusters with our ventures, you've got the upper hand in the long run...there's a heck of a lot more carbon fiber available than mammoth tusks!!!!! I'm just enjoying making them while I can!

[Jim guthrie]

Yea but this is not carbon fiber or carbon carbon. It is the isotropic Turbostratic Pyrolytic carbon used in the medical field.

A very fine grain carbon that is the best conductor of acoustic or thermal energy know to science right now. Something real funny Rainsong says their guitars are made of graphite. They are in fact made of turbostratic carbon fiber. Notice Ellis of composite Acoustics being from the aerospace industry did not make that ignorant mistake. His guitars are better too.

[Eric Iverson]

Then there are sarod picks. I have a couple of them, made from coconuts. Great tone for acoustic guitar especially. The only drawback is that if you put them in your wallet, like I do my plastic picks, they tend to break!

 

Not really ideal for fast strumming, but a real punch for single note lines!

[TuskBuffer]

It is the isotropic Turbostratic Pyrolytic carbon used in the medical field.

Holy crap that's a mouthful! In any case, I'm guessing there's more Isotropic Turbostratic Pyrolytic carbon available than mammoth tusks.

[Eric Iverson]

That's what the mammoths WANT to you to think!

 

However you look at it, it's a mammoth problem!

[Jim guthrie]

Yea it is made by cracking propane or Methane in a oxyogen free

fluidized bed the same machine Heart valves and finger joints are made in. You need to think about the little machine we talked about you can get them used cheap. Then you could use the fossilized Ivory too. You could also engrave your picks with those machines with names and or logos.

[Electric Biscuit]

make sure, when they are available, to describe the tonal qualities of each wood pick on your site, eh?

[TuskBuffer]

make sure, when they are available, to describe the tonal qualities of each wood pick on your site, eh?

I'll see what I can do, but I think it would be best to get more than just my opinion on this. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts, too.

 

Hey have you received those picks yet EB?

[Electric Biscuit]

No, and they don't usually deliver anything on weekends. I'm hoping for monday

[GreySeraph]

I'd say have quotes from people for each pick, along with your own statements.

[skipclone 1]

It is the isotropic Turbostratic Pyrolytic carbon used in the medical field.

Holy crap that's a mouthful! In any case, I'm guessing there's more Isotropic Turbostratic Pyrolytic carbon available than mammoth tusks.

 

Well I knew about one of those Latinate tongue twisters and loooked one up-isotropic means having uniform properties in all directions, IOW not having defined axes. Pyrolysis is the process of breaking soemthing down in to sompler components by the application of heat

Turbostratic-no idea, it sounds like a cross between a guitar and something people ride around on in Harry Potter movies...

[Jim guthrie]

Skipclone 1,

 

There are many forms of carbon from graphite to diamond most form naturally in nature, and some are mostly or only man made. For example carbon fiber is man made, and there are two types.

fiber made from mesophase pitch which is graphite, Graphite is a crystalline material in which the sheets are stacked parallel to one another in regular fashion with very weak or no inter locking bonds (like sheets of paper stacked on top of each other)

carbon fiber made from Polyacrylonitrile (PAN) is turbostratic.

The turbostratic fiber is much stronger, and is a great conductor.

That is the fiber Ferrari's, tennis rackets, Carbon fiber Violins, carbon fiber Guitar's, violin bow's etc. are made of. Graphite fiber is to brittle to make much out of they used it a lot in rocket nose cones over titanium where there is going to be a lot of heat.

Turbostratic means there is no real regular patern in the crystalline structure the carbon atoms are haphazardly folded or crumpled together. Two types of pyrolytic carbon, are pyrolytic graphite, and pyrolytic carbon. Pyrolytic graphite is made in a reactor that is not fluidized if it is pure enough, and anisotropic enough it can be cleaved like mica, and is diamagnatic thin sheets will levitate over rare earth magnets at room temperature.

Pyrolytic carbon is turbostratic and is isotropic covalently bonded

like diamond. The covalent bonds in diamond allow energy to be transmitted by the protons instead of the electron clouds. That is why people call diamond (ice) because a large diamond conducts thermal energy so fast it feels like a piece of ice.

The pyrolytic carbon we use from the medical field is isotropic covalent which makes it a super conductor of thermal and acoustic energy so I named it Black Diamond. None of the so called diamond like carbons are any thing like diamond though, and the material scientist hate the words (diamond like carbon).

The only graphite used in the music industry is the graphite saddles that Graph tech makes. There is no such thing as a graphite guitar.

[picker]

Jim,

I wondered if you were affiliated with Black Diamond strings when I first saw your web site. Have you checked with a lawyer to see if you're safe from any claims by them for using the same name?

[Jim guthrie]

Yes we have. The company in Florida is named Black Diamond just like our name is Obbligato. Black Diamond is a Trade marked name for the type of carbon we make guitar picks , electric, and acoustic saddles, and nuts, Violin bridges, sound post, violin nuts, frets, etc from. If we called our company Black Diamond , then that might be a problem. Many companies in, and out of the music industry have products that are called Black Diamond if a company starts to call a carbon in the music industry Black

Diamond we would have our lawyer give them a call. People selling golf clubs or diamond rings with (Black Diamonds)there is such a company we can't, and should not be able to do anything about that. That is a good question, and I understand the confusion you won't be the last one on picks for sure. If you do a search for Black Diamond guitar picks both companies will come up. We sell Carbon guitar picks under the company name Obbligato,Inc. They sell plastic, and metal picks for the most part under the company Black Diamond. Notice we use the Inc in our company name.

Most companies in the music business are incorporated but you never see Fender, Inc. for example. The reason we use the Inc is because we are proud of being Nerds from the medical business that stumbled onto one of the best materials that will ever be used in the music industry. (We only use Obbligato on our t shirts though). If we have products in the future that are not made of this carbon that material will not be called Black Diamond.Thanks for a very good question, and I hope this explains it for you

[GreySeraph]

Really, contrary to what you may think, I've been using the ivory picks for a while now, and for the most part it doesn't slip out of my hand. It doesn't have any grips on it or anything, and once I dropped it, but it's just like any heavy celluloid/wood/whatever pick in terms of: yeah if im not paying attention and i do something clumsy I'll definitely drop it haha. I absolutely adore the sound on my new 2.0mm pick i got recently, and I filed it extra to bevel the edges and give it a REALLY smooth sound (before there was a distinct ridge that I found to be clacky, so if you order from Tusk, make sure you have him bevel the edges (at least, that's my preference). The attack/feel/timbre reminds me of my friend's tortoise-shell pick that I got to borrow; really milky-smooth attack and a silky tone to boot!

 

That being said, I'd be down to try out your picks Mr. Guthrie. How can I go about doing some business with you? and how expensive do your wares go for? I'm a college student/music major (you know how it goes), so go easy on me

[Jim guthrie]

GreySeraph,

 

I have been talking to TuskBuffer with emails, and I sent him a picture of my Ivory pick we used in the study. He thinks some idot put something on it to make it slick as glass. I like the tone, and feel of Ivory also. I only play with stiff picks so that is a big plus for Ivory to me. TuskBuffer knows more about Ivory picks than me so I believe him when he says his picks have good grip. The production picks are $30.00 plus tax if you live in Texas. We have learned that since our picks do not wear at all ever that a Jazz (sharp tip is best for most players). We are just starting to produce them though, and only have a tip in stock that is more like a 351 standard but not as blunt as a Fender 351. I also make Custom Shop picks with bevels (we soon will make them in production too). The Custom Shop beveled picks are $20.00 but come with a leather necklace too. However the magic grip is on the solid carbon production pick. I make the Custom Shop picks with many different handles Turquoise, wood, pearl, tigers eye etc. A good friend of mine George Dennis is from Santiago Cuba he grew up with Manuel Barrueco. We put a BD saddle on a trash classical guitar, and it sounded better than his Dammann with him playing it hard for even me to believe. Send me a email, and I will let you talk to George. jim.guthrie@obbligatoinc.com I can't give out Manuel's wife's name or her contact info though. We are going to make him saddles for his Ruck, and his Dammann ASAP the Ruck would then be loud enough for him to play it in concert. I am going to have to go around Dammann, and Ruck though they think they are to improtant to talk to anyone I guess. The tone, and volume shift on a classical is even better than a steel string something I did not expect. I started the company in 2006 to fix acoustic saddles the pick is serendipity I was not even thinking about trying to fix picks yet. For right now anyone that orders a production pick can have a Custom Shop pick for free with a Cocobolo handle, and leather necklace. We might make Willie a saddle for Trigger ( I just need to wait until some Pamana Red comes back to Austin though). The radius to a point pick (Jazz tip) is called a Brian Hunsaker Precision (he designd it).

[TuskBuffer]

Well, I wouldn't call the guy an idiot, I'm just thinking he might have treated it with something to make it shiny rather than buffing it to perfection like I do . Could be that he sold them as a novelty rather than to actually play with.

[Jim guthrie]

I am the one that called him a idiot because all this time I though that Ivory was just to slick to hold onto. They were the ones selling the picks on ebay. They might have bought it that way, and did not know better either. Sorry to TuskBuffer, and anyone reading this for saying TuskBuffer said that. He has been a good sport even when I was saying I know how to fix his picks, and I was wrong about that too. It also proves my point this is all about information, and educating everyone. Sometimes I forget that I don't know everything yet either.

[picker]

Actually, I kinda liked the word "idot"...

[Fumblyfingers]

Does anyone remember Min'd Picks from the 70's? Agate I think they were.

 

Personally for my thick pick's I go for the 3.5mm Wegen Gypsy jazz.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/Gypsyfingers/gp_small.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/Gypsyfingers/gypsyjazz.jpg

 

http://www.wegenpicks.com/

 

The Wegen's sound absolutely fantastic on my Selmac Clone and are extremely fast. I have several in white and black. I like Michel's picks a lot and love the trademark design of the serrated grip cut which is flat on one side, concave on the other and the edges have a specific bevel. They are not cheap though, when you consider how easily picks get lost or misplaced....buried deep in the recliner.

 

But yours look great also and I am open to trying something new.

 

 

In the 70's I used to make my own picks out of Perspex. I would get the thick stuff...around 2mm-3mm and my design had a sharp point with a pretty deep bevel. I'd use rough sandpaper to create a grip surface or drill small 1mm holes in them. I tried both polished and rough bevels ....liking the rough bevels a lot as you can scrape the pick up or down the string getting a nice texture on the sound. The sharp point allows you to dip in and out of the strings to play very fast.

 

There is one other pick that is just great as far as having character that I used to use in the late 60's early 70's called the Sharkfin...out of Sweden. Apart from the black Jim Dunlop Jazz III's which are great but are just brutal on my nails-wears my middle finger nail down to the quick-the Sharkfin is just phenomenal as far as character. But only the original white opaque model. These are some I have..... the one in the middle is the style I like. You can play with either tip..sharp or rounded and also the serrated edge for a brutally sweet attack with rasp. The pick is thin so to get a "thicker" sound or to play faster you can manipulate the pick by bending it.

 

Unfortunately for very fast playing on a regular basis and when using thicker strings, it becomes tiring having to bend the pick all the time- so years ago I moved to thicker picks. But for regular rock style guitar and to be able to have a wide array of pick attacks on hand, the Original Sharkfin is hard to beat. They sound phenomenal when strumming an acoustic guitar or playing funk style chord grooves as you can hear the pick almost "rest stop" briefly on each string as it passes through.

 

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/Gypsyfingers/Sharkfins.jpg

 

The newer ones use a material that is crap.....the black one is more like the material of a JazzIII and the blue one more like a softer version of a red JazzII material.They are somewhat spongey and too thick for the serrated edge to really work well. The white/opaque original is superb though.

 

I like the look of the Skunk pick.....maybe I will pick one of those up at 2mm and also the Dunlop style in about 1.5mm. Are they strong enough at that thickness or should one go out to 2mm to be safe?

 

 

 

 

[TuskBuffer]

I like the look of the Skunk pick.....maybe I will pick one of those up at 2mm and also the Dunlop style in about 1.5mm. Are they strong enough at that thickness or should one go out to 2mm to be safe?

They're plenty strong enough at 1.5 mm--won't bend at all and you could probably stand a car on top of it! No doubt it will perform to your liking if you like a good, solid, stiff pick. If you like the feel of a thicker pick though, go for the 2 mm--same price either way. If you want to go really thick, I can do that too. The Skunk Picks have been a huge hit--I've gotten a lot of great feedback on the the "warm, sweet tone" people get from them--plus they look cool!

 

I used to have a Sharkfin pick that I used as a template--don't know what happened to it though. I didn't copy the serrations at the time, and I'm not sure how close I could get to them anyway. If you'd like me to try a sharkfin style with my own brand of serrations, we can probably work something out.

 

If you are concerned that the Jazz III is too small, you might like the Small Standard. I just updated the site with pictures to compare them.

 

http://tuskbuffer.net/ivorypicks.html

[TuskBuffer]

Actually, I kinda liked the word "idot"...

Would that be complete or incomplete?