Thinking about going passive...

[Michele C.]

There was more punch, sounded a little less "artificial" for lack of a better term.

 

This drives me crazy. I also feel that passive is more "natural" being well aware that there is no naturality at all in an electric bass. I feel silly when I think of it, but electric basses sound "reproduced" to me while passive sound "live".

So strange.

[SteveC]

I don't know how accurate a term "artifical" is but it's the only thing I could think of at 1 AM.

 

I'm wondering if I should do anything more/other than Master Volume, Pickup Balance and Tone? Series/Parallel Switch maybe?

[Rocky McDougall]

"In the beginning" when electro pickups were being invented, they were only trying to increase the volume of an "Acoustic Instrument". The aim of the amplified sound was to reproduce the sound exactly as the acoustic instrument produced it, without coloration. Today we have entered the world of "electro wiz-bang tecnology" with a wide, vast array of sound coloration devices. Is that bad? Of course not, but it is a different world of sound. Most of us will probably want to have it all. An instrument that is pure as possible and one or more that can "honk any sound"

Rocky

[SteveC]

Well, I'm bringing my bass in for the "transformation" tomorrow. Volume, Tone, 3-way toggle for pickups as I tend to just leave them both on but occasionally use the front pup for ballads and standards.

[SteveC]

Got the bass back today...sounds good. I'll try it for a few weeks/gigs and see how it goes. It seems to have more punch than it did active.

[jeremy c]

Well, all right then!

 

And of course you could always avoid future surgery on your bass by getting one of these:

 

http://www.bestbassgear.com/images/other/aguilar-tone-hammer.jpg

 

or one of these:

 

http://www.sadowsky.com/media/billboards/750x400/pre_di_750x400.jpg

 

 

[SteveC]

Actually, that crossed my mind. Long ago I asked about having a passive bass and then a couple different outboard preamps for variety. Some scoffed, others said it was an interesting idea. We'll see how it goes. I kinda like it passive - at least right now. I also dig the holes left where the extra knobs used to be. Usually I'd be rushing to fill them some how, but I think I'll leave them.

 

I have that Rob Allen I don't use and am trying to trade it for another fretted 5. Like maybe a Sadowsky M5-24 or similar 34" scale 5'er. That way, I'd have a passive 5 and an active 5. Good to go.

[SteveC]

Don't know if it makes sense or if I'm hearing things, but the output of the pickups seems much louder now that it is truly passive as opposed to when I was in "bypass" mode with the preamp.

 

 

[Bobby LowTones]

Don't know if it makes sense or if I'm hearing things, but the output of the pickups seems much louder now that it is truly passive as opposed to when I was in "bypass" mode with the preamp.

 

Quite possible that, in bypass mode, some (passive) electronic components were still in the signal path between the pups and the output jack - like resistors and capacitors...

[SteveC]

That's what I was thinking. I never liked the bypass/passive tone I got with the Berg preamp. I do like the true passive tone I have now. I may leave it this way and if I get the urge for an active sound, just get an outboard Sadowsky or Aguilar or something like that.

[IceRegent]

Not sure if anyone addressed this or not, but when you go passive from an active setup, you also need to change the pickups from active to passive. The output level from active pickups without and pre-amp on it will drop dramatically, as they are wired specifically for use with a pre-amp. The output from active pickups is not as high as from passive pickups, and not matched correctly for going straight into an amp.

 

I recently had to change out my pickups in a P-j bass, since my pre amp also went bad, and I couldn't get the output I needed just going from the active pickups directly into the amp. When I changed over to passives, the output cleared right up.

[jeremy c]

His bass didn't have active pickups.

 

EMG is one of the only companies that actually has active pickups. Nearly every other system uses passive pickups with an active preamp.

[SteveC]

The output is pretty god right now. Much better than when in "bypass" mode. I see Jeremy already addressed the active pickup thing.

[_Sweet Willie_]

...with the Berg preamp.

 

Bart preamp?

 

Peace.

--SW

 

[_Sweet Willie_]

The output is pretty god right now.

 

The output is pretty "god" right now?!?!

 

Wow. I hope to find the mod for my bass that makes the output more godly!!!

 

;-}

 

Peace.

--SW

 

PS: Sorry to pick on your typos, Steve. I couldn't help myself.

 

[SteveC]

OK, Bart preamp and I forgot an "o" grammar police.

[_Sweet Willie_]

[jeremy c]

I think I detected another spelling error.

 

Willie is not police, he is polite.

[SteveC]

So far I like it. I was debating a passive jazz and as I have jazz style Bartolini pups in it, I think I have that covered. The B string is lacking a bit, but in my cover band - where the passive tone would be desirable to me - I don't use it much anyway.

 

Now, for some stuff I can see wanting that "active" sound again. I think I want to keep my bass passive for real, not a bypass mode in an on-board preamp. My question is, will running it through a Sadowsky or Aguilar or something really give me the same - or at least very similar - sound as if the preamp was installed on my bass?

[Tom Capasso]

Now, for some stuff I can see wanting that "active" sound again. I think I want to keep my bass passive for real, not a bypass mode in an on-board preamp. My question is, will running it through a Sadowsky or Aguilar or something really give me the same - or at least very similar - sound as if the preamp was installed on my bass?

 

Can you sculpt the tone on your amp to do that? Your amp is pretty flexible.

 

Dare I recommend a Sansamp pedal with the four switches so you could have some options at-foot? (I couldn't say "at-hand" - it just isn't right). Now that your setup has changed, you need to re-acquire all the tone pedals and see what works best for you (dangerous - I know).

 

Tom

[_Sweet Willie_]

Sadowsky, Aguilar, Fodera, and Nordstrand all have prototypes or on-the-market outboard versions of their onboard preamps.

 

The SansAmp is a powerful tool as well. As is the MXR M-80 (is that the right model?). EBS also has a preamp stompbox (or used to).

 

So, there are many options.

 

Tom's right, though, about you having a preamp on your amp that offers quite a bit of tweakability.

 

But, in the end, screw it all and just track yourself down a 5-string Sadowsky or else one of the older model Lakland 5s that had a 34" scale -- I think the 54-94s.

 

Peace.

--s-uu

 

[SteveC]

I'd love to track down another Sadowsky Metro M5-24. I should have kept the one I had. Surprise. Actually, I may trade my Rob Allen for a new Bergantino HT112ER and Shuttle 9.0 rig. I think the Berg may be more "evenly voiced" than the Genz Benz cab. The 9.0 is a great little head.

[SteveC]

Now, for some stuff I can see wanting that "active" sound again. I think I want to keep my bass passive for real, not a bypass mode in an on-board preamp. My question is, will running it through a Sadowsky or Aguilar or something really give me the same - or at least very similar - sound as if the preamp was installed on my bass?

 

Can you sculpt the tone on your amp to do that? Your amp is pretty flexible.

 

Dare I recommend a Sansamp pedal with the four switches so you could have some options at-foot? (I couldn't say "at-hand" - it just isn't right). Now that your setup has changed, you need to re-acquire all the tone pedals and see what works best for you (dangerous - I know).

 

Tom

 

I may be able to "sculpt" some tone with the amp, but I think I'd like to have a separate on/off type of thing so I can leave the passive tone alone and the "active" tone alone - you know what I mean?

[AndrewMac]

In regards to outboard preamps, you really only need one if your Genz isn't giving you the sound you need OR if you need a

good DI to the board. I only play passive basses and my sound improved dramatically when I went to sansamp para driver and PSA 1 preamps. I go from them straight to a power amp and it's quite awesome sounding. Even when I use a full featured amp like yours, I bypass the preamp on the head by sending the sansamp signal to the effects loop return (thus using it like a power amp only). Plus you also get a great di to the board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In

regard to outboard preamps, you really only need one if your Genz set up isn't delivering the sound you need. The best thing I've done for my passive sound is go through tech 21 sansamps (I use the para driver and PSA 1). Even when I use a full featured amp like yours- I bypass the amp's preamp by sending the sansamp signal to the effects loop return. I get more compliments than ever on the sound/tone.

[SteveC]

In regards to outboard preamps, you really only need one if your Genz isn't giving you the sound you need OR if you need a good DI to the board. I only play passive basses and my sound improved dramatically when I went to sansamp para driver and PSA 1 preamps. I go from them straight to a power amp and it's quite awesome sounding. Even when I use a full featured amp like yours, I bypass the preamp on the head by sending the sansamp signal to the effects loop return (thus using it like a power amp only). Plus you also get a great di to the board.

 

I get what you are saying, but I like the passive sound I get right now without any extra tweaking of the amp. The reason I'm thinking about a Sadowsky for example, is that I can step on it and now I have that active bass tone without redoing anything on my amp. Know what I mean?

[itu]

Well, I'm bringing my bass in for the "transformation" tomorrow. Volume, Tone, 3-way toggle for pickups as I tend to just leave them both on but occasionally use the front pup for ballads and standards.

I do not know, what are the pick-ups like, but if they are four (or in some cases 5) wire humbuckers, you can do connections for single coil or double coil serial and parallel options. These are quite common in (mostly passive) guitars and are just as usable for basses. But the mics need to be four (or 5) wire models.

 

I modified my MG 5 SPi Custom years back and I am happy with the tonal possibilities; do not forget the battery-less operation while going passive. This may save your gig some time when the batteries run out of juice.

 

First I figured both Bartolini mics and their wires (http://www.bartolini.net/ helped a lot). After some research, I bought (surprisingly affordable) high quality pots and switches (something that are not offered with most preamps or instruments) and modded the electronics. Now the system has two volumes, two rotating mic switches (single coil, parallel, serial [humbucker] for both mics), active tone (B + T) and a true-bypass (oh, this word sounds so good) switch to choose between active or passive. If passive, the active tone pots and the preamp do not work and the circuitry does not need battery.

 

Yes, the mics are powerful enough to drive my amp. I decided not to add a passive tone: for sound tweaking my amplifier has very good eq.

 

I have to remind you, that with certain type of microphone constructions this is not possible. Many EMGs are not designed for this A/P system and if the mic is not clearly 4-wire model, the modification may be impossible or needs very delicate actions. The coil wire is truly thin.

 

To end a long post, I also remind that some knowledge (check for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbucker), skills and good tools are a must. Consult people to find the right person for the job. Remember, that a messed gig is a nightmare.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Actually, I may trade my Rob Allen for a new Bergantino HT112ER and Shuttle 9.0 rig. I think the Berg may be more "evenly voiced" than the Genz Benz cab. The 9.0 is a great little head.

 

Really??

 

Oh. My.

 

Peace.

--SW

 

[SteveC]

Actually, I may trade my Rob Allen for a new Bergantino HT112ER and Shuttle 9.0 rig. I think the Berg may be more "evenly voiced" than the Genz Benz cab. The 9.0 is a great little head.

 

Really??

 

Oh. My.

 

Peace.

--SW

 

I'm not completely sold on this. I do like the convenience of the combo and it doesn't sound that bad. I just have the Rob Allen sitting around and I'm trying to figure out what to do with it as it isn't selling.

[SteveC]

So after the gig tonight I think I am going to keep the bass passive, keep the combo amp and play. It sounded great. I don't think I need a preamp for some of the stuff I thought I would - the modern jazz, etc. It sounded great. I tweaked the amp EQ a little and it was there.

 

[SteveC]

That's what I was thinking. I never liked the bypass/passive tone I got with the Berg preamp. I do like the true passive tone I have now. I may leave it this way and if I get the urge for an active sound, just get an outboard Sadowsky or Aguilar or something like that.

 

Maybe I should start a new thread, but along the lines of using an outboard box for that more "active" sound if I want, would using a channel strip give the same or similar effect? Preamps are basically EQ's, right? Something like a Presonus Studio Chanel with a nice compressor and semi parametric eq where you choose the the frequency - 40/400/4 for example for that "Aguilar" sound.