Official NBA 2008-2009 Thread

[clpete]

Hmm, I'd rather see the Nuggets even it up tonight, 'cause if the don't, this series won't go six.

 

And I want two 7-game classics....

[Geoff Grace]

Hmm, I'd rather see the Nuggets even it up tonight, 'cause if the don't, this series won't go six.

 

And I want two 7-game classics.

I don't blame you one bit. That's what I would want if my second favorite team wasn't involved.

 

I get mighty nervous when I see how "in on" the fanciful LeBron vs. Kobe thing the networks, the league, and the sponsors are.

 

The league should be a little smarter and a little more poker faced--after Donaghy's bust (and subsequent allegations) this particular league is under a little but of an onus to show that it never manipulates playoff matchups. Vitamin Water is simply dying for a Lakers-Cavs matchup. As of right now, at least, the Cavs have not been the better team in that series. This is worth watching closely. The difference between LA-Clev and Den-Orl is millions and millions and millions.

I'm sure a lot more bets will be placed on an LA/Cleveland matchup as well. I don't know how crooked the NBA is, but they at least seem willing to look the other way.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[richwhite9]

Wikipedia has all the NBA Finals ratings and you can be pretty sure that the NBA doesn't want a repeat of the Cleveland/San Antonio Series from 2007 which set the league back to the beginnings of the Bird/Magic era in TV ratings (1981).

 

The 2007 series drew 1/3 the audience of the 1998 Chicago/Utah series. The prior year's Miami/Dallas series was nothing to write home about either.

 

The four major markets dominate ratings--LA in the West and either Chicago, Detroit or Boston in the East. As you probably read the Bulls/Celtics series was a ratings bonanza and the most watched first round ever (it may outdraw any of the third round series).

 

If the NBA is 'corrupt' make it Orlando and LA and watch Lebron James head for a major TV market in 2010.

 

[Joe Muscara]

Wow - check on these stats on T-Mac, proving that when he plays, he's really good.

 

Personally, I'm going to give him one more chance next season (not that I have any say in the matter!). But if I see that grimace again, I'll be calling for his head. I'd rather unload him now because I don't think he'll ever be 100% for a full season. But as we've discussed before, who would take him?

[Magpel]

Wow - check on these stats on T-Mac, proving that when he plays, he's really good.

 

Personally, I'm going to give him one more chance next season (not that I have any say in the matter!). But if I see that grimace again, I'll be calling for his head. I'd rather unload him now because I don't think he'll ever be 100% for a full season. But as we've discussed before, who would take him?

 

No one, now that Isaiah is gone...

 

 

[steadyb]

When the Laker bench is shooting 13%, not much chance of winning.

[steadyb]

And what's up with that cheap ass intentional trip by Jones? Where's the flagrant? Where's the ejection?

[KenElevenShadows]

And what's up with that cheap ass intentional trip by Jones? Where's the flagrant? Where's the ejection?

 

And the shove in the back last game, which was upgraded to a flagrant 1. I don't know him. Does he always play this dirty?

 

And why have Gasol and Kobe been on the bench for so long?

 

Anyway, Denver is just plain outhustling the Lakers.

[KenElevenShadows]

Denver played hard tonight. They deserve to win.

 

I thought that the Lakers would split at Denver, although I thought they'd lose Game 3 and win Game 4.

 

 

[steadyb]

Oh well, crap game by the Laker bench and a crap game by the refs = game 4 loss.

 

 

[KenElevenShadows]

Oh well, crap game by the Laker bench and a crap game by the refs = game 4 loss.

 

 

Yeah, some bad officiating, although it didn't change the outcome of the game. Lakers bench were awful. Denver played really good. Great hustle. Gotta give 'em credit. They played hard.

 

Lakers should be able to regroup and win Game 5.

[SilverDragonSoun]

Oh well, crap game by the Laker bench and a crap game by the refs = game 4 loss.

 

 

Don't worry B. The NBA wants this series to go longer, but they will do everything in their power to get that Fakers/Cavs matchup. In the end the Fakers will get some calls in a close game to ensure they move on to the next round.

[steadyb]

Oh well, crap game by the Laker bench and a crap game by the refs = game 4 loss.

 

 

Don't worry B. The NBA wants this series to go longer, but they will do everything in their power to get that Fakers/Cavs matchup. In the end the Fakers will get some calls in a close game to ensure they move on to the next round.

 

Ok.

[richwhite9]

When the Laker bench is shooting 13%, not much chance of winning.

 

Kobe shooting under .400 doesn't help.

 

LA lost in every area of the game: Rebounds (-18) TOs (-4), PFs (-7), Steals (-2). Denver won every quarter.

 

Bynum and Gasol had decent nights. Otherwise forget it.

 

This sets up a meaningful game 5. I don't know if this sets up a Laker blowout. Anthony had a terrible game and Denver looked like they figured out some mismatches they can exploit.

 

Call it the curse of the Nike hand puppets and the obnoxious teen-oriented 'Unstoppable' campaign. There's a certain justice here: basketball is still a team sport not a Nike manufactured two-man showdown.

[Griffinator]

Seriously, the refs were handing out T's to Denver like they were candy late. That one on JR Smith was a joke. I think they more than made up for the non-call on the trip.

 

The Lakers, yet again, failed to show up for the game, is all that happened. When two of your starters (Ariza and Fisher) combine for 8 points, two assists, and two rebounds in 49 minutes, it's not a good night.

 

Kobe was, to borrow a poker term, "on tilt" when he went back in halfway through the fourth. Jackson tried to settle him down long enough to get his head straight, but he was just determined to hoist up whatever shot he had as soon as he got the ball, and it doomed any chance the Lakers had of a comeback.

 

I'm still amazed at how well the rest of the Nuggets pulled it together when 'Melo was struggling tonight.

 

LA lost in every area of the game: Rebounds (-18) TOs (-4), PFs (-7), Steals (-2). Denver won every quarter.

 

Bynum and Gasol had decent nights. Otherwise forget it.

 

I guess Bynum had a good night by Bynum standards - 14 points, 5 boards, didn't foul out... but it certainly wasn't a headline performance.

[Magpel]

The refs certainly missed Jones' dirty trip, but I wouldn't call it a badly officiated game otherwise. They also missed Kobe's dirty shoulder into the groin of Kenyon Martin in game 1.

 

Kobe is not the king of "I don't him foul him" whine." But he is the undisputed master of the "I was fouled" whine.

 

All you need to look at last night was rebounding. The Lakers didn't.

[Griffinator]

Kobe is not the king of "I don't him foul him" whine." But he is the undisputed master of the "I was fouled" whine.

 

No way. Pau Gasol has that title wrapped up for all eternity. He screams like a girl every time someone gets within 6 inches of him.

[Magpel]

Oh well, crap game by the Laker bench and a crap game by the refs = game 4 loss.

 

 

Don't worry B. The NBA wants this series to go longer, but they will do everything in their power to get that Fakers/Cavs matchup. In the end the Fakers will get some calls in a close game to ensure they move on to the next round.

 

I don't like to suggest these things lightly, 'cause if they're even the slightest bit true, then the game has no legitimacy and no value, but I must admit I am concerned too.

 

The Lakers have been putting up stinkers all throughout the playoffs. I think they'll win game 5 handily, and I'll stick with my prediction that they'll close it out in Denver in game 6. It's the other series where I think the scrutiny really needs to fall, because it is pretty clear that Orlando is better than Cleveland. If LeBron manages to deliver a series win, let us dispassionately examine the circumstances that put him in a position to do so.

 

The league/networks/sponsors are united in their, erm, strong preference for a LeBron/Kobe finals. Pair that with another assumption that such power brokers routinely make--what is scandalous news today will be entirely forgotten in three months, (except by those whom it is easy to classify as fringe loonies).

 

I call it the Epistemology of mass numbers. Epistemology is the study of how truth (or knowledge) is defined and determined. If 30 million people are concerned about something, then public figures have to acknowledge it head on--30 mil = functionally "true." If the number is considerably lower, then they can safely ignore it, regardless of what the facts appear to say.

 

I, for example, would love to be one of the "fringe loonies" (which again, means "less than approx. 30 million") who want to know WHAT THE FUCK happened at the end of that Steelers-Chargers game last season--the official explanation of which was so patently ridiculous and the circumstances so suggestive of a strong "Vegas" presence on-field. But it is such a futile, losing battle. The issue has dropped WELL below the epistemology of mass numbers threshold. It is lost forever and Goodell never has to address it again, even if some idealistic young gadfly journalist who writes like a retarded Jimmmy Breslin hounds him about it--just another "fringe loony," i.e., one of the less than 30 million people who believe a certain issue/fact to be important/true.

 

Ha, lol /rant

[KenElevenShadows]

The refs certainly missed Jones' dirty trip, but I wouldn't call it a badly officiated game otherwise. They also missed Kobe's dirty shoulder into the groin of Kenyon Martin in game 1.

 

There were some other missed calls, including one Denver person who was T'd up where I just couldn't see the reason for it, and Sasha getting jabbed in the throat. But as I said above, I honestly don't feel it altered the outcome of the game. The Nuggets got to the line often, just as they did in the regular season, because they were aggressively attacking the basket, something the Lakers didn't do.

 

 

Kobe is not the king of "I don't him foul him" whine." But he is the undisputed master of the "I was fouled" whine.

 

All you need to look at last night was rebounding. The Lakers didn't.

 

Yeah, he does complain a lot about getting fouled. But then again, he does get fouled a lot. A lot of times, they'll show replays after he complains, and sure enough, he's getting hacked.

 

Agreed about the rebounds. The Nuggets were a force of nature on the rebounding. And attacking the basket. They played a great game and deserved to win.

[Griffinator]

Guys, let's face it: The league knew full well that maximum ratings would be achieved by pitting the two biggest markets in the playoffs again - Boston and LA. If the fix was on, Orlando wouldn't have won game 7 in Boston.

[steadyb]

The league is over Lakers/Celtics... too yesteryear. It was nice for the celts to make a once in 22 years appearance, but Lakers/Cavs is what's happening now and the next 3-5 years.

 

The Celtics was kind of like an appearance by Sha Na Na... amusing and nostalgic, but once every 20 years is more than enough.

[Magpel]

Guys, let's face it: The league knew full well that maximum ratings would be achieved by pitting the two biggest markets in the playoffs again - Boston and LA. If the fix was on, Orlando wouldn't have won game 7 in Boston.

 

Dude, CHINA just bought LeBron. That's a big market.

[Magpel]

...Or did LeBron just buy China? Details are sketchy.

[richwhite9]

The league is over Lakers/Celtics... too yesteryear. It was nice for the celts to make a once in 22 years appearance, but Lakers/Cavs is what's happening now and the next 3-5 years.

 

The Celtics was kind of like an appearance by Sha Na Na... amusing and nostalgic, but once every 20 years is more than enough.

 

Last night we saw the Kobe Lakers at their finest. No comparison to the O'Neal Lakers. No teamwork. Pure ego. Lots of huff and puff but no engine.

 

The Cavs are making their mistake by building a team the same way. One ego to rule them all.

 

We know what happened the last time Kobe and his posse thought Nike commercIals were reality. Good bye O'Neal. Good Bye NBA rings.

[Geoff Grace]

Re: the Lakers' bench:

 

Lakers captain Derek Fisher was ready to pin the blame for Monday's 19-point loss on the L.A. bench, which the Nuggets' reserves outscored by 18 points.

 

"I guess if you want to just look at it statistically, you can always do that," Fisher said.

 

And if you do what he suggests, you'll see that Denver's bench not only outscored L.A.'s, but it outrebounded (21-16), out-stole (3-2), out-blocked (2-1) and under-fouled (11-13), too.

 

"But every team asks different things of their bench and their players so you can't always just look at numbers and say, 'Well, their bench outplayed our bench' ... It's not that simple," Fisher said. "I just think collectively as a team, we're not doing things offensively and defensively to make sure that as a group we're able to really break a team down. I think we're putting a lot of pressure on Kobe and Pau [Gasol] to do so much on the floor." (Source)

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

As someone who has spent a fair amount of time in Denver, I can tell you this: the Nuggets have an extra advantage at home because they're conditioned to playing at a high altitude. (Witness Kobe hunched over in his post game interview after Game 3.)

 

And that conditioning doesn't hurt when playing at low altitudes either. When I was in college at ASU, our football coach, Frank Kush, used to train his team in the high altitudes of northern Arizona for that very reason. Kush's Sun Devils never won any championships, but they played well enough to earn Kush a head coaching gig in the NFL. (He didn't fare too well in the big league though.)

 

Of course, if high altitude conditioning were all it took to be successful, Denver would have a great many championships by now. But if you've got the right players, it can at least give you an extra edge.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[KenElevenShadows]

 

The Celtics was kind of like an appearance by Sha Na Na... amusing and nostalgic, but once every 20 years is more than enough.

 

 

Comic genius.

[KenElevenShadows]

Last night we saw the Kobe Lakers at their finest. No comparison to the O'Neal Lakers. No teamwork. Pure ego. Lots of huff and puff but no engine.

 

I don't know that it had anything to do with ego. Lack of teamwork, yes, especially defensively. Lack of HUSTLE, yeah, in a big way. But all this being due to ego? No.

 

To me, the big difference between this version of the Lakers and the O'Neal Lakers was hustle, determination, and consistency. The O'Neal team was not lacking ego in any way, but they knew how to play together and they were hungry and hustled and played defense.

[Magpel]

 

To me, the big difference between this version of the Lakers and the O'Neal Lakers was hustle, determination, and consistency. The O'Neal team was not lacking ego in any way, but they knew how to play together and they were hungry and hustled and played defense.

 

To me, the differences were:

 

1. O'Neal

2. O'Neal

3. A weaker NBA, and a ref's assist when they finally did meet a better team

4. A collection of loathsome but effective role players (Fox, Horry, a younger Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, etc.) who weren't afraid to play dirty and hit big shots.

5. O'Neal.

 

As Steady has said many times, Shaq quit on the Lakers when the fued with Kobe really started to heat up, but in those two legitimate championship seasons, he was one of the five or six best centers ever, which is kind of hard to replace.

[steadyb]