Semi O/T Mac Computer

[Zuben]

I have new screaming Win based computers and an OLD MAC that I have used for music.

 

It is time to up grade. I want to get the top of the line MAC for music Any suggestions from MAC user would me appreciated.

 

Peace

[Bluesape]

Fumbles and Caprae are good bets here.

[Fumblyfingers]

Are you going to go laptop or desktop?

 

Either way a Mac Pro is what you will want.

 

The desktop Quad's or dual Quad's are awesome....they are so fast and handle any audio work with ease. They hold a boatload of RAM and you can put a lot of drives in them.

 

The MacBook Pro is a very sweet laptop and can also handle any recording app with ease. You have to use external drives for recording but not a problem..the unit has both Firewire 400 and 800 I believe.

 

Scott Fraser I believe uses a laptop for almost all his work while traveling with the Kronos Quartet, running Digital Performer, and so do many artists and engineers take laptops on the road with them. You can be anywhere and work on some aspect of your music.

 

If I were to have only one computer it would be a desktop loaded to the gills....I would love a good laptop up to par with my studio computer but I cannot afford it....so I have a used TiBook 667Mhz G4 that I got for $200 from a friend ....but it will hardly run any audio app anymore other than Audacity or something.....all the "real" audio apps today require fat computers.

 

I would not by a G4 or G5 at this point....Apple has made the move to the Intel Macs and all the software manufacturers are following suit. Pretty soon their software will be obsolete on the regular G5's and G4's and you will reach an upgrade ceiling and possibly even support. It sucks.......then you have to get another computer again and if you wait to long you run out of time on your software purchase for the free upgrade and have to pay a fee for it in some cases so it ends up costing even more.

 

The trick is to save a bit more or whatever...if you have the funds....but buy the most current top of the line Mac you can afford 'cos there is no stopping these guys as far as new stuff coming out and upgrades...you want to have some headroom with your computer.

 

There is no reason to not use Windows anymore.....I personally would not because I do not like the OS...but that is just me.

 

A new top of the line PC will smoke just as fast as anything out there and most, NOT ALL, audio software is dual platform. Pro Tools will run on a PC very well..

 

But I am biased so I will highly recommend a nice shiny new Mac it comes with tons of really cool software for editing video and photo's and burning discs and creating movies, backing up your stuff, and if you get a .Mac account you get webspace and all sorts of stuff. It is like a whole experience that comes with the computer.

 

To me personally you cannot go wrong with a Mac and either Pro Tools or Logic.

[caprae]

I have new sceaming Win based computers...

 

Yeah, I've heard VISTA called a lot of things before, but never sceaming!

[Scott Fraser]

I have new sceaming Win based computers...

 

Yeah, I've heard VISTA called a lot of things before, but never sceaming!

 

The screaming comes from the end user.

 

Scott Fraser

[Scott Fraser]

Scott Fraser I believe uses a laptop for almost all his work while traveling with the Kronos Quartet, running Digital Performer, and so do many artists and engineers take laptops on the road with them. You can be anywhere and work on some aspect of your music.

 

Yes, I never travel without my G4 laptop, which is now getting a bit long in the tooth, & will be replaced by a MacBookPro this year. I've done tons of editing & premastering projects for clients while out on the road. I realized the technology had really arrived while I was putting a client's CD together while sitting in the front seat of the tour bus, driving through the Black Forest in Bavaria. Kronos bought a MacBookPro which travels with the equipment, so all of our live playback & any impromptu recording takes place on that machine. For a major studio project, either they come to my studio or I pull my G5 desktop out & drive to the Bay Area with that & my interfaces. The last several Bay Area projects, though, I did on the MacBookPro, since I had to fly to the sessions & didn't need a lot of inputs. It's a very fast machine.

 

To me personally you cannot go wrong with a Mac and either Pro Tools or Logic.

 

To which I'll add Digital Performer for a DAW, & Abelton Live if one is going to be doing a lot of live interacting with MIDI, loops, samples, playback or realtime processing on stage.

 

Scott Fraser

[Fumblyfingers]

...... while sitting in the front seat of the tour bus, driving through the Black Forest in Bavaria. Scott Fraser

 

Man, that sounds good....catching all sorts of visuals.

 

Yeah, absolutely on the DP as far as cannot go wrong. I am seeing more and more laptops being used...recently I saw a band and one of the guitar players had a laptop with his guitar sounds in it....maybe Guitar Rig or Amplitube.

 

John McLaughlin uses a G4 and Logic exclusively live, using the soft synths in logic and Spectrasonics Atmosphere as well.

[Soulrock]

...... while sitting in the front seat of the tour bus, driving through the Black Forest in Bavaria. Scott Fraser

 

Man, that sounds good....catching all sorts of visuals.

 

Yeah, absolutely on the DP as far as cannot go wrong. I am seeing more and more laptops being used...recently I saw a band and one of the guitar players had a laptop with his guitar sounds in it....maybe Guitar Rig or Amplitube.

 

John McLaughlin uses a G4 and Logic exclusively live, using the soft synths in logic and Spectrasonics Atmosphere as well.

 

It's even easier to do that now with Logic Studio. There is a bundled app called mainstage specifically for live performance. It's really cool for keyboards or midi guitar, but you could use it for regular guitar as well. Not the soft synths of course, but you could use the amp modelling and effects.

[Zuben]

Sorry about that - It need to be a laptop. I am on the road too much. Everyone I work with uses Macs. In honesty, I am not a Mac fan.

 

I do HATE VISTA, bad system that MS has used their regular debugging channels, the consumer

 

I have a Toshiba Laptop with Dual core Centrinos, 180 gig hd and 4 gig Ram. It runs at 2 ghz and can easily be bumped up to 2.5 with no problem. The laptop screams. It would make a great music platform but it seems all the good recording and mixubg programs are for Macs.

 

Native picture files and music files do not run on Win and Mac. There are progrms to convert but that gets tireing. MP3 is a common format but it is not record quality.

 

Over the years I have gotten by with DATs and 8 track Tascam. THe Tascam still gets a lot of work.

 

Thanks

Peace

[Soulrock]

It would make a great music platform but it seems all the good recording and mixubg programs are for Macs.

 

 

An apearance by Bill@ is now imminent.

 

Zub's, get the Macbook pro.

[Scott Fraser]

Over the years I have gotten by with DATs and 8 track Tascam. THe Tascam still gets a lot of work.

Peace

 

Is that a DA88/38/78 digital Tascam or an analog? If digital, & you have any interest in adding more tracks, I have a couple Tascam DA38's I'm looking to sell. They were a great system for me, but I had to move to computers a while back & I never use tape anymore.

 

Scott Fraser

[Fumblyfingers]

An apearance by Bill@ is now imminent.....

 

 

 

 

Hi Bill ......

 

[A String]

It would make a great music platform but it seems all the good recording and mixubg programs are for Macs.

 

This is not a dig at Mac, I think Macs are great little computers, but I think you'll find that the best recording software available, is also available for the PC. That really shouldn't factor into your decision as to which platform to get.

[Hardtail]

I have new sceaming Win based computers...

 

Yeah, I've heard VISTA called a lot of things before, but never sceaming!

 

The screaming comes from the end user.

 

Scott Fraser

 

I've screamed as a result of using Windows.

[ThisSiteSucks]

You know, I've been around computers since the first IBM Personal Computer (heck, I still have one out lying around somewhre).

 

Since the advent of XP Pro and now Vista, I think Microsoft has done a decent job with the OS; I have not had a machine crash for OS reasons for years!

 

One thing is: Windows LOVES memory. I reccommend at least 2 Gig RAM for XP and 4 Gig for Vista. And a fast hard drive.

 

Besides being a little short on drivers for Vista, it's a solid operating system. My "high-end" gamer runs Vista Business and is rock solid.

 

For $1,000 in today's dollars, I could build you a Quad Core Intel based desktop PC that would do all the audio work you'll need it to do for quite some time.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Vista runs great!

[caprae]

I have new sceaming Win based computers...

 

Yeah, I've heard VISTA called a lot of things before, but never sceaming!

 

The screaming comes from the end user.

 

Scott Fraser

 

Screaming when VISTA starts its sceaming

 

 

Get a mac and run both.

 

 

[Zuben]

I will give VISTA a year before I think of putting it on one of my PCs. I use to do BETA testing for MS. After Milliniun, I atopped. (MS dosen't even support Millinium)

 

If I decide to stay with my PCs, my Toshiba would be dedicated to music, what programs do you suggest that would be compatible with MAC formats?

 

Thanks

Peace

[Fumblyfingers]

Pro Tools sessions will open on either platform as far as I know. I will try find that out for sure.

 

If you are going to collaborate by sending files back and forth perhaps you should figure out what platform those who you will be working with are using.

 

The issue is not about speed....all the computers today are in the ball park with each other as far as speed. The issue is about stability and also ease of use when it comes time to troubleshoot a problem. As a person who only got into computers about 10 years ago I found the Windows OS, at the time, a real pain in the butt...way complicated. I liked the intuitiveness of the Mac's. That is why I stuck with it.

 

At this point, nothing could get me to even consider changing.

 

All the better sample libraries and programs that run in RAM love a lot of memory. 2 Gig now is the norm with 1 Gig usually the minimum recommended.

[Zuben]

Lister,

 

Thanks. I have been in computers before I went off to college. Systems Engineer. Punch cards and all. I have had more operating systems over the years I can't even count.

 

I am looking for compatability more than anything.

 

Peace

[Fumblyfingers]

Sure yeah I noticed you have been deep into computers for a while. For me compatibilty relates more to whatever model computer you have and what version the software is at and issues between software's. So whether it is a Mac or PC does not matter , it is what Mac or PC and what software.

 

The issue with Mac right now is the move to Intel. Most software and recording platform developers have come up to speed but some have not. Spectrasonics' Atmosphere is a fully HUGE sounding soft synth but is not yet UB....Universal Binary so it causes all kinds of problems on an Intel Mac even with the Beta VST Wrapper that is available.

 

Ozone 3 mastering software was causing all kinds of problems with Sibelius. You had to take the plug-in out of the folder and relocate it. Digidesign does not like the iSight camera and will kernel panic the computer if it is merely connected while running Digidesign.

 

As I said also with everyone scrambling to Universal Binary the software guys are leaving Power PC back in the dust. So pretty soon even a G5 is probably going to reach an upgrade ceiling. It sucks when improvements or new features are added that you really want but you can't do the upgrade because your computer is no longer supported.

 

Also OS upgrades with Digidesign are dodgy. You cannot upgrade an OS until it is tested and supported by Digi. Mac OS upgrades come out all the time...10.3...10.4...10.4.1....10.4.3.......etc etc each time you cannot just do it if you have Pro Tools. Quicktime and iTunes upgrades have caused huge problems. I upgraded Quicktime and iTunes once and it destroyed my Pro Tools stability. I had to do a complete system reinstall, lost a whole bunch of data, plug-in's, etc etc etc it was freakin' nightmare, I cannot tell you how pissed I was...upset that these friggen guys were not talking with each other..one letting the other know about the new OS at least giving the others a chance to check it out.

 

Now I never just upgrade...I learned my lesson. I treat it like I do a Beta version of something.....I make sure Pro Tools approves....Pro Tools has seniority on my computer LOL.

 

This seems mostly a deal with Pro Tools....I don't know how it affects Digital Performer or Logic and others and I don't know how it affects PC users. I am sure going from XP to Vista will require the software manufacturers to write code for the new OS.

 

But I would be interested if someone chimes in on that.

 

Scott, do Mac OS upgrades affect DP.....do you have to wait for the new OS to be qualified?

 

Who has Sonar or other recording platforms on Windows? Do changes from XP to Vista involve new software from these developers?

[EmptinesOf Youth]

I use Cubase SX (windows) and have tried others but love cubase sooo much

[Scott Fraser]

Scott, do Mac OS upgrades affect DP.....do you have to wait for the new OS to be qualified?

 

It's really been pretty minimal. MOTU waited until OS 10.3 before they even released an OSX version, because they felt the OS wasn't ready. When Leopard came out, DP users found 2 significant bugs the first day. Within maybe a week at most MOTU had a new upgrade out that now runs flawlessly on Leopard. Unlike Digi, MOTU only does a major upgrade about every 2 years, with a couple fixes & additional features thrown in between. There have been rather few issues in the upgrade process & MOTU gets on them really fast. DP underwent a complete redesign for OSX so they threw out a lot of clunky old code & it's pretty efficient. I'm told that ProTools still carries a lot of vestigial code from many years ago, & that each upgrade is more of a slight alteration, not a real rewrite.

 

Scott Fraser

[Fumblyfingers]

I'm told that ProTools still carries a lot of vestigial code from many years ago, & that each upgrade is more of a slight alteration, not a real rewrite.

 

Oh trust me I am waiting for something like Pro Tools 8 or whatever to come out that will completely drop LE users like myself in the dirt....the hardware will be obsolete and all support will be dropped.

 

In fact I am going to look at Logic Studio seriously. I hate the look of the interface but I like the idea of it being able to be a live rig as well. It is what McLaughlin uses so I am a bit biased in it's direction....LOL I appear to be a shallow, superficial person I know . I also believe it has surround mix capability which I would like to have a crack at using.

 

I would consider DP too, I prefer the way it looks to all the others.It also looks more like a traditional console to me. I know that might seem silly, but if I am going to stare at a screen for hours, it has to be something that appeals to the senses.

 

At around $600-$800 for these platforms and not even being sure if I can use my Digi 002Rack hardware i/o.......it is something that will require some thought.

[Scott Fraser]

Oh trust me I am waiting for something like Pro Tools 8 or whatever to come out that will completely drop LE users like myself in the dirt....the hardware will be obsolete and all support will be dropped.

 

Well I guess that has happened several times throughout PT history already. I would expect them to do it again.

 

In fact I am going to look at Logic Studio seriously. I hate the look of the interface but I like the idea of it being able to be a live rig as well. It is what McLaughlin uses so I am a bit biased in it's direction....LOL I appear to be a shallow, superficial person I know . I also believe it has surround mix capability which I would like to have a crack at using.

 

DP does surround very well also. You get sort of a joystick panner in place of the usual stereo panpot for surround. I'd be interested to see what it is that McLaughlin & others do live with Logic. If it's just VI synths/samplers don't all DAWs do that to the same extent now?

 

I would consider DP too, I prefer the way it looks to all the others.It also looks more like a traditional console to me. I know that might seem silly, but if I am going to stare at a screen for hours, it has to be something that appeals to the senses.

 

I've had lots of PT users drool over my screen & lament how unattractive they find the PT interface, comparatively.

 

At around $600-$800 for these platforms and not even being sure if I can use my Digi 002Rack hardware i/o.......it is something that will require some thought.

 

I think DP may be more like $550 or so, but I haven't checked lately. If you buy any MOTU interface they give you AudioDesk for free, which is like DP-Lite. You can then upgrade to full blown DP for only about $250, which is what I did.

 

Scott Fraser

[dreibel]

if anything, you may want to hold off purchasing a new Mac system until Macworld Expo in San Francisco next month, as traditionally Steve Jobs rolls out brand new or upgraded hardware. Word is we may be seeing some seriously upgraded or new laptops.

 

(As an aside, if you ever have a chance to attend a Macworld, by all means do - it's fun, informative, and you can get some serious discounts on software and peripherals. I've attended a few of these on vacation time, had a lot of fun and learned a lot.)

 

Currently I'm using my 4 year old G4 MDD running Tiger, and using Cubase Studio 4 - it's a very stable system. But I'm looking at getting something like an iMac in the new year, all I need to do is get my software so it's Universal compliant (which I'm doing slowly and when I can afford it) and when I can be guaranteed by the vendors that the software would be Leopard compliant (I held off on doing the upgrade to my system because, as cool as Leopard is, a number of features I'd like aren't PPC compliant, so I'll need that Intel processor).

 

Plus right now Steinberg has yet to guarantee that Cubase will be stable under Leopard, in fact there were problems when 10.5 was launched where Cubase wouldn't even install under Leopard.

[Fumblyfingers]

I threw Leopard on my G4 Dual 1.25 MDD....and I really do not like it. I prefer 10.4.9. I would go 10.4.10 but it is not supported yet by Digi.

 

Leopard has a weird unfinished look to it.

[Scott Fraser]

I threw Leopard on my G4 Dual 1.25 MDD....and I really do not like it. I prefer 10.4.9. I would go 10.4.10 but it is not supported yet by Digi.

 

Leopard has a weird unfinished look to it.

 

I'd wait until 10.5.3 at least. I've been on 10.4.10 for about half a year. Only very slightly different than 10.4.9. Safari & Mail are somewhat improved, but nothing big. DP seems to like 10.4.10 a bit more.

 

Scott Fraser

[Soulrock]

I was wondering if you guys had gone to Leopard. I think I'm going to wait. I've got 10.4.10 on my MacBook. No problems with Logic Studio, but you expect an Apple app to be ok with the updates. You never know though.

Scott, I think Logic and DP have been the favorite DAW's to use as a shell to run virtual synths among keyboard players. With mainstage Logic has just gone a step further by including an application built solely with that purpose in mind. It's the best option I'm aware of short of getting a muse receptor. I'm definately no expert here though, it's something I'm just starting to explore.

 

[A String]

Who has Sonar or other recording platforms on Windows? Do changes from XP to Vista involve new software from these developers?

 

I use Sonar on Windows. OS upgrades don't seem to effect it.