The first time you heard yourself singing

[Rocky McDougall]

Dave, your early recording was a pleasant surprise. Not bad, not bad at all.

Rocky

[Gruuve]

...what do you think about having two very different vocal sounds in one band? A crappy rough, marginal voice and a very nice, perfect pitch, smooth voice....

 

I personally think that multiple singers who sound totally different is excellent! You can create contrasts that way, and contrasts are a good musical thing IMO. In fact, one of my favorite lineups is a female vocalist who is smooth and sweet and a male vocalist who is rough and gritty.

 

Dave

 

[The Bear Jew]

Hey Dave, not too shabby for a 4-track recording made by relatively inexperienced guys 15 years ago.

 

If this is something I end up doing (and we haven't even talked about playing and singing at the same time, but I think I can work on that), what do you think about having two very different vocal sounds in one band? A crappy rough, marginal voice and a very nice, perfect pitch, smooth voice. How do you arrange the sets? I don't see me doing more than a handful of songs.

 

I think having differing vocal sounds in a band can be a very good thing--that'd definitely increase the variety of material you can perform. Think about it--would you dare attempt something like "The Ace of Spades" with your current singer? I'm gonna guess not... it'd sound kinda corny. But... I bet YOU could do a nice job with it. Same thing with most ZZTop songs... I can't picture someone with a pretty voice singing "Tush." That'd just suck. Let the other guy sing the Journey (eww) covers, and you can sing the crusty rockers.

 

Also, the singing-while-playing thing isn't as bad as you think... you just have to practice playing until your muscle memory takes over. Your hands will be like little robots that play almost independently of the rest of your body. That way you could play while having a conversation, paying attention to something else or whatever... then, add in the singing. You'll be fine.

[Ross Brown]

zz top.... hmmmm... very good idea...

 

I can carry on a conversation and play at the same time usually. I just will have to practice singing and playing.... If I do it...

[Gruuve]

Dave, your early recording was a pleasant surprise. Not bad, not bad at all.

Rocky

 

Thanks Rock! 15 years ago when I first started attempting to sing, my voice was a little sweeter and mellower sounding...after doing it off and on for years and adding some numbers to my age, my voice has become much more gritty and abrasive. You can change basses, but you can't change voices...you can only learn how to best use what you've already got and try to make the most of it. Luckily, my pitch control and range have improved a little over the years (still far from what I'd like for them to be however!). I've always wanted to be able to sing like Steve Perry (from Journey), but that'll never actually happen. With some work and probably some lessons, I think I could get a little closer to a Chris Cornell kind of sound (Soundgarden, etc....we used to cover a couple Soundgarden songs years ago, and I was the obvious choice to do the lead vocal)...not my first choice, but still highly useable!

 

Dave

 

[vesterberg]

I guess it increases our overall musicality to start to sing, even though we do not plan to take the microphone. When I sing with people around me, I hold back because of fear of singing out of pitch. That only makes it worse. I have started to sing a long with my favourite songs in the car with no one present. To sing out loud and put emotions in it seems to be important, no matter how I float around trying to hit the right pitch. It would quite funny to listen to a recording of it :-)

[Eric VB]

I guess it increases our overall musicality to start to sing, even though we do not plan to take the microphone. When I sing with people around me, I hold back because of fear of singing out of pitch. That only makes it worse. I have started to sing a long with my favourite songs in the car with no one present. To sing out loud and put emotions in it seems to be important, no matter how I float around trying to hit the right pitch. It would quite funny to listen to a recording of it :-)

I agree. In fact I made the same point in a thread some time ago. Based on my experience performing popular music, it's more helpful for instrumentalists to learn how to sing (while playing), perhaps, than to learn advanced, esoteric techniques, such as two-hand tap. The counter-point, put forth by the seasoned and respectable JeremyC, was that singing is irrelevant in certain situations, such as studio work, where instrumental technique becomes paramount.

 

Certainly for jazz players chops trump vox. No argument there.

 

But for other forms of popular music in which vocals play the central role, instrumentalists should hone their vocal skills. I just read a post on another forum where someone played very well for his audition but feels he didn't get the nod because he doesn't sing; the guy who got the gig does. Just being able to sing BGVs raises your stock. Quickly skim over the musician-wanted ads and see how many ask instrumentalists to be able to sing lead, BGVs, or in which singing is a "plus".

 

One nice aspect of learning to sing lead on some songs is that they are always in your repertoire. When your lead singer is replaced or you join a new band, as will happen eventually, you'll have to learn a whole new set list. Except for the ones on which you sing lead.

 

It's also nice to be able to fill in on those nights where the lead vocalist's voice doesn't show up instead of cancelling a gig. And even on a good night it gives the lead a chance to rest his or her voice.

 

It's also important if you find yourself in a trio, a duo (White Stripes, Clatter), or as a solo musician. Who's going to sing for you when it's just you up on stage? So once again learning to sing opens up possibilities.

 

To be fair, it is also possibly that you can have a career in music in which you rarely, if ever, are asked to sing.

 

Singing whenever you're alone is great because you don't have to worry about annoying others, or others' annoying comments. In the shower. In the car. These are places I practice, too. When singing to a recording, especially in the car, it is important to get the balance between your voice and the recording right. If you crank the music and sing softly you run the risk of hiding a weak vocal, like that TV commercial where the guy in the studio accidentally hits a switch on the console and we get to hear the girl in the sound booth without all the backing tracks and effects and she sounds horrible.

 

Most karaoke nights are pretty forgiving, too. There will be people that show up and just blow everyone away. Don't worry about not sounding as good as them; they've been singing (at least karaoke) for a long time. And don't worry about being the worst singer in the room. Somebody has to be. Maybe next week it will be someone else. In order to ensure the karaoke place has the songs you want to sing, invest in your own karaoke discs and bring them with you. I haven't had a problem bringing my own discs yet.

 

On stage make sure you can hear yourself. You may not have much control on a karaoke or open mike, but in your band you should be able to position your monitor (or use IEM).

 

Speaking of equipment, it may not be a bad idea to own your own mic, stand, monitor and cables. This way you'll always have the same gear no matter which band you're playing in next week. (And you'll know exactly whose lips have been all over your mic. ) Buying an entire PA system can be costly but getting a minimal system helps for practicing at home. A small PA might be useful for solo coffee house gigs but not much else. A power amp that can be used on stage to drive your monitor might be good to have. Combine that with a cheap mixer with the appropriate mic preamp/power for home practice. It can take some practice to learn how to use a mic for a particular song.

 

As far as pitchiness, you have to break a vocal line down note-by-note, syllable-by-syllable. We don't learn a bass line as "it starts on a C and ends on an F, or maybe a G, and hits a note or two in between on the way down". So don't expect to learn to sing like that, either. Learn the notes and practice along with a keyboard, if possible. Go slowly at first and make sure you hit each pitch, centered, without sliding into it (unless it's intentional), with good, resonant tone. Once you are comfortable with the pitches bring it up to tempo.

 

Learning to sing requires an additional caution. You only have one voice and it is possible to cause irreversible damage to it. Therefore it is strongly recommended that you seek a qualified vocal instructor.

[Ross Brown]

This is a great thread... who started it?

 

Seriously, this is good stuff. Thanks!

[TimR]

350odd days into the year Ric finally breaks his New Year resolution. However, everything he says (as always) is true.

 

Good luck Ross. I sang on stage once in a barbershop quartet. We did Friends - from the Jungle Book. We were supposed to mime it with actions but we ended up sounding good enough to sing it live. It was easier than singing and playing. I can't do that. I can hit the notes but the accent ends up being completely wrong. As others have said I think the attitude is what counts rather than the pitching. If you play an instrument the pitching isn't too hard as your ears must be good anyway.

 

 

[vesterberg]

As far as pitchiness, you have to break a vocal line down note-by-note, syllable-by-syllable.

 

So is it. I was surprised to find how varied the pitch and also the dynamics and phrasing of a song often is. When you try to sing along you become aware of it. I am sure it will help me to better cooperate with the vocals in a band. It is good to learn to have an open ear to each of the instruments and the vocals. Play together. We are in that period of discovery in my band.

[The Bear Jew]

To add onto vesterberg's last post... another point to remember--the thing most new vocalists seem to lack is a good sense of rhythm and phrasing. You'd be suprised how often bad pitch can be overcome by good rhythm and phrasing. Listen to vocalists whose voical tones you most strongly favor and try to break down what they're doing rhythmically. Don't sweat the actual pitches--just break down the groove and the meter. Chances are good that something kind of interesting is happening.

 

Personally, I do this by feel and by paying attention to the way the vocals interact with whatever rhythmic elements are present in the music. Someone more schooled than I (Ricbass, I'm looking in your direction) could take a song like, for example, "The Ace of Spades," and technically analyze what Lemmy's doing with his voice there... if Lemmy's vocal line was played on a percussion instrument, it'd make a pretty cool counter-rhythm to the drums. And, in that song, getting the vocal groove right is definitely more important than hitting the notes perfectly. The feel is what counts here, and a big part of the feel is nailing the groove. A lot of that comes back to confidence, and that comes with practice--if you know the words perfectly, and you know exactly what you need to do next, you'll have confidence, and you'll knock it out of the park.

 

 

[TimR]

Yes, maybe I was a bit misleading there. I meant that detecting when you are not on pitch is easy. That's where a few of the singers I have played with fall down. They have trouble recognising when they're out. I think good monitoring may play a part there. Although my mum can sing notes by feel. She doesn't need to hear herself to know she is on pitch.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

350odd days into the year Ric finally breaks his New Year resolution. However, everything he says (as always) is true.

 

Which was ... ? This reminds me it's time to start my annual N.Y.R. thread

 

I used to sing backing in several bands, went from terrible to acceptable and for some reason, back to terrible :grin:

 

It's my biggest frustration as a musician: I can sing and play bass at the same time, but I cannot sing in any proper key / pitch ...

 

Eventually my band will get around to adding backing vocals, I plan on steering it there anyway. And I plan on having the three musicians (including me) sing.

[Ross Brown]

To add onto vesterberg's last post... another point to remember--the thing most new vocalists seem to lack is a good sense of rhythm and phrasing. You'd be suprised how often bad pitch can be overcome by good rhythm and phrasing. Listen to vocalists whose voical tones you most strongly favor and try to break down what they're doing rhythmically. Don't sweat the actual pitches--just break down the groove and the meter. Chances are good that something kind of interesting is happening.

 

Personally, I do this by feel and by paying attention to the way the vocals interact with whatever rhythmic elements are present in the music. Someone more schooled than I (Ricbass, I'm looking in your direction) could take a song like, for example, "The Ace of Spades," and technically analyze what Lemmy's doing with his voice there... if Lemmy's vocal line was played on a percussion instrument, it'd make a pretty cool counter-rhythm to the drums. And, in that song, getting the vocal groove right is definitely more important than hitting the notes perfectly. The feel is what counts here, and a big part of the feel is nailing the groove. A lot of that comes back to confidence, and that comes with practice--if you know the words perfectly, and you know exactly what you need to do next, you'll have confidence, and you'll knock it out of the park.

 

 

I am already seeing this. A simple little blues songs with very few words should be easy, right? Nope... Phrasing is a lot more involved than I expected. So cool....

[jar546]

I sang in the chorus in school back in the 70th into the very, very early 80's. I was usually picked to do duets (never solos) I never volunteered, I was picked and to this day I have no idea why. There are very few notes that I can hit and those are marginal. When asked I just say "no, I can't and don't sing"

 

I did record myself a few times only to realize that when i say i can't sing, I have never made a more correct observation in my life.

 

Luckily for me I cannot sing and play the bass at the same time. Just can't do it.

[Tom Capasso]

... detecting when you are not on pitch is easy.

True - my band has no trouble figuring out when I'm off

 

Picking the right material is so important when your style is limited. That's why I'm impressed with our current singer. His voice can be a bit thin, but he's shown amazing range of style. His "inner blues singer" comes out big time for Van Morrison songs.

 

Ross - looks like CMDN has "got you under pressure".

 

Tom

[Ross Brown]

My wife listened to my crappy recordings of myself singing Blues in the Morning and Stormy Monday. I got the green light... I reminded her of Joe Cocker. She said there are a bunch of songs that I could do with practice (and a bunch I could not).

 

I asked her if it was close enough to keep practicing and she said "yes, definately".

 

The pitchy parts were not that pitchy to her. She said it would depend on the music. I shall keep on practicing.... (She liked my phrasing and "soul").... I married well.....

[Gruuve]

Good deal, Ross...keep up the good work!

 

Dave

 

[jeremy c]

Re: The first time you heard yourself singing

 

I was:

 

killing myself softly with my song.

[Ross Brown]