Gruuve Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Hey folks: Workin' on a new tune, and I'd love some critique on the songwriting and arrangement. The music is pretty heavy, and based around the Arabic scale. I've got a rough demo posted...BUT...the lyrics and subject material aren't exactly "wholesome and family-oriented" ...so, if you're willing to give it a listen and critique, reply here and I'll PM you a URL. TIA! Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Ok, I'll give it a listen! Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABGBrian Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 What's wrong with just posting a link for it? Official Website BandcampFacebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomgottem Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I'm game. I dig the un-wholesome and non-family oriented. My whole trick is to keep the tune well out in front. If I play Tchaikovsky, I play his melodies and skip his spiritual struggle. ~Liberace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 PM's sent. Well...this is *supposed* to be a family-oriented forum, so I'd rather not post something nastaaaaay out of respect for younger forum members. Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo-London Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Count me in. Davo "We will make you bob your head whether you want to or not". - David Sisk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLroomtempJ Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 unwholesome lyrics? dsisk, what's happened to you since i've been gone? j 2cor5:21 Soli Deo Gloria "it's the beauty of a community. it takes a village to raise a[n] [LLroomtempJ]." -robb My YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 unwholesome lyrics? dsisk, what's happened to you since i've been gone? j Depends on your definition of "wholesome" I guess! Jesse Helms would definitely call it "pornographic" (along with some of the centuries-old art that he considered pornographic! LOL...sorry for the political joke there... ) Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamy ALB Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I'll give it a go to Dave, I love the old heavy metal!! http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Little-Bitter/185235472447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I took a listen to the rough*. Sounds like a mix between Linkin Park and Puddle of Mudd, especially Linkin Park because of the Angry White Rap part. Not really my bag. If it popped up on the radio, I would change the channel as a matter of taste. I know this is a rough, but from a recording and performance standpoint, the big thing that stands out is the loose bass; missing The One often with a very prominent bass line makes it feel very "garage band". * not terribly hard to find with all of those links you have posted previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 * not terribly hard to find with all of those links you have posted previously. And so I took it for a listen yesterday... (Someday, we should talk about securing your webspace.) A bit rough, I kind liked the "Angry White Rap" part and dug the little...uh... 'groans' that you had here and there. I would like to reserve judgment for a more refined mix though. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo9247 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I'll give it a whirl; loud, angry music is my genre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Heh heh...you guys are pretty sharp! (I can easily password-protect directories, but don't really want to for WIP stuff like this.) Yeah, I'm planning to get a female voice on the groans and breathing. The bass won't be nearly as prominent in a final polished mix, but I am rethinking some of the bass line on the rapped part. I'll probably split some of it between where it is now and an octave lower, plus maybe de-busify what's happening on the One of each bar. The instrumental arrangement is a work in progress, as is deciding on the final vocal melody, etc. Er...something like that... Thanks for the ears folks... Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamy ALB Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Pm sent Dave. http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Little-Bitter/185235472447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo9247 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I like the guitar riff, but it is buried in the mix; drop the bass and vocals back a little. The drums need to be spiced up a bit also, but I like the direction your going in. I like the rapesque breakdown sections, but they feel out of place. Try and crossfade in and out of the verse to bring some continuity. Vocals sound good for a bass player but try and add a little effect to it, maybe a little delay/reverb just for the verses and see what it sounds like. I give it a B -Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Thanks for the thoughts. Oh! The drums are a midi drum track...I'll record acoustic drums for the final version, of course. And yes, the mix wasn't great, just good enough to hear what's going on with each "instrument". And yes, the vocals are still pretty rough...still working out the vocal melodies, etc. This is definitely a work in progress and NOT the finished product...I usually end up re-tracking various parts several times before I can call it "done" (and the good news is that it *usually* gets better each time I re-track!) Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomgottem Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Obviously someone is feeling a little randy, eh? My major criticism is this: You are a drummer. Play real drums. The Mid-East vibe was dig-able and I was not at all offended by your lyrics. I am a terrible critic. My whole trick is to keep the tune well out in front. If I play Tchaikovsky, I play his melodies and skip his spiritual struggle. ~Liberace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke73 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I quite liked it overall Dave. The rap bits aren't really my thing - I don't like them very much, but the rest of your vocals are very good. I like the bass track, but dislike the midi drums. Tell us about the bass! Would be much nicer with real drums ...oh - and I didn't hear any offensive bits. Am I missing something? Maybe they were in the rap bits which I had difficulty comprehending? http://www.myspace.com/twoshortrocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted November 29, 2007 Author Share Posted November 29, 2007 Thanks guys. The bass you are hearing is actually the new Warwick...it's growl seemed to fit the song nicely (although I still plan to rework the part a bit). My guitar playing sux...I really should see if I can engage a real guitarist for this one. Patience my friends! I will unquestionably record real drums to this...what your hearing is my "working draft" that I'm using to work out all the parts, etc. IMO, A midi drum track is always a good start when you record one instrument at a time. I'll do the drums last since that's the part that's most difficult to record in a project studio type setup. I just threw the lyrics up at the same link (see the text file)...I had the rapped part too low in the mix, so with the distortion on the vocals, the words are a bit difficult to understand. I wouldn't say any of the lyrics are actually offensive (or not to most)...in fact, they're not nearly as explicit as lyrics I've heard on the radio I suppose! Differences in folks' tastes are always interesting to me...some folks really like the contrast created by the rapped section (I'm one of them), and some folks really dislike it. But that's a good thing! Variety (even in opinions) is the spice of life, eh? And yes Jay, kissin' the purple elephant is one of my favorite..."responsibilities". Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Hey Dave, I just gave a listen. I thought the opening bass line was catchy. This registers as the musical hook to me. The guitar part is functional. (Hey, not bad playing considering you just picked it up!) I like the use of the breaks to, well, break up the song. The overall ABCABC format works fine. I'm not crazy about the parts where bass and guitar are following each other. Perhaps you have some ideas to add something here that wasn't included in the rough? Ok, the vocals. Switching between singing and rapping is fine with me and even makes sense here because of the change in mood between the lyrical content of the A and B verses. Not a fan of the processing on the rap vox. I know you're still working on phrasing and such, but I'm having a hard time matching the mood of the music/vox to the lyrical content. The A verses only make sense to me when you get to the second one with, "How I long for you when we are apart." But the rest of the content for those verses doesn't seem to be about pining for someone unobtainable, and the music seems a bit dark. (Maybe I need to spend more time with goth punks? ) The raps seem real rough. That's probably why you like them distorted so much. Since rap is all about the rhythm this may be the one time you want to work it out on an instrument first (drums!) and translate back to voice instead of the other way around. Compared to modern hip-hop this comes across as a bit clumsy to me. (It's not as easy as it seems.) I'm not really feeling the chorus. The quick switch from singing to rapping reminds me of DC Talk, perhaps a little too much. Maybe that's just me, though. What else? Well, drums. They'll play a big role in this one if you go with just bass and one guitar like the rough. Maybe some extra percussion or some loops to fill things out. I could use something like a female-on-the-phone voice over that gives this song more context. For example, she's chatting with her girlfriend about playin' a guy; that would explain the overall darkness of the song. (Of course, then the one line "With me your heart you do entrust" doesn't fit anymore.) Otherwise I'm going to need a much more convincing vocal performance to overcome the music. Help me, the listener, really feel the full emotional weight of what you're saying with the lyrics. I'm always impressed with your ability to go from idea to rough in such short time. If it were me I'd still be trying to write most of the lyrics and half of the music. Not a bad start! Looking forward to hearing it evolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Everything RBG said! Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 Thanks guys. Yeah, definitely agreed that the vocal lines need a lot more work and expressiveness. I'm actually pretty happy with the rapped part (although the rhythms need to be tighter), but the A verse and chorus needs a lot of work. I'm trying to come up with an interesting vocal harmony for the chorus (that's a little challenging though given this is based on the Arabic scale, which is a bit difficult to harmonize). Interesting interpretation of the lyrics, Eric. You read it as pining away for someone you can't have...my thoughts were around someone you already have and just can't wait to get hold of! But then, I did intentionally try to write the lyrics in a way that conjured up lots of imagery but still left plenty of room for individual interpretation. So, sounds like I accomplished some part of that goal, so cool. Some of the lyrical content ranges from "naughty" to slightly "devilish" at some points, so basing the music on the Arabic scale seemed like an awefully good choice to me. But, again it's all open to individual interpretation...and I'm actually glad that different folks are interpreting it differently. Very cool. Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 OK...I've got my 2nd draft of this tune posted. I took some time yesterday and earlier today to work on it, and it's coming along (but still got a ways to go, a few things need to be re-tracked, still haven't recorded acoustic drums, still needs a solo at the, etc.). Doing all the instruments yourself really takes some time...especially when your guitarist sux! It took me forever and a day to play the guitar part well enough that the rhythm is clear and articulate (but then I don't make any claims to being a guitarist). Oh...and I ended up using the Ebow on that noodley guitar part in the verses. Since it appears no one would object (and we actually have discussed naughtier lyrics on this forum), I'm just posting the link to it. http://www.ipass.net/davesisk/music/original/N2U_demo.mp3 This should start with a Hip-hoppish loop...if it doesn't, your browser has cached the prior mix since the filename is the same. Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourlord Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Not really my bag, but it doesn't suck.. Towards the end there is a part where it's mostly the guitar and bass both just hammering a note over and over for quite some where I kept playing all kinds of awesome bass melody's in my head over it.. I think you could really use those parts to drive home some mad bass licks and really end the song with a bang. Feel free to visit my band's site Delusional Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Listened with Walkman-style headphones on a laptop. I agree with yourlord that the outro is a little sparse. Still can't make out the raps due to the extent of the vocal processing. Any chance you can back it off just a bit? I found the BGVs in the chorus to be distracting. Maybe there is a way to engineer them into the mix more? Right now they sit too much on top, IMO. Or something. I kept looking around to see who was trying to talk to me with the headphones on. The ebow'd guitar functions well enough. As played it sounds a bit like a keyboard synth. Try giving it some vibrato on the fretboard if you can; I think that'd sound more vibrant. Otherwise try it as a synth and see if you like it better without the slides. (Some of these come across as "toy instrument" sounding to me.) I like this take better overall than the first, although I'm going by memory and not A/B-ing the two. I like the way the music is shaping up and the vocals, with the exceptions noted above. There's a lot of intensity here that I think will catch people's attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Thanks for the commentary, guys. Yes, there will be solo's at the end plus one repeat of the chorus...that's why it's somewhat sparse, I wanted to leave room for some riffage. I'm making some minor changes to the rapped lyrics, so that whole part will be re-tracked (probably not this week though). There's a term I heard not too long ago that I just have to get in there: "Lubricate your mind". I can't let that phrase pass without using it in this song (since that's essentially the intention of this song anyway)! I'm pretty happy with vocal melody on the verses, but not thrilled about my pitch control. The first half of the chorus just ain't happening vocally (although the 2nd half works, except again will have to re-track with better pitch control). I'm still working on that chorus....the first half just isn't as impactful as what I want it to be. In a nutshell, work-in-progress continues! I keep having to remind myself that it takes a bloody long time to track a bunch of instruments yourself. Anyway, thanks for lending an ear... Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourlord Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Definitely keep us posted.. It's interesting! Feel free to visit my band's site Delusional Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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