Gig Sound: Art vs. Science

[Ross Brown]

I (and many others) have posted topics concerning getting the sound right on a gig. There are two approaches to take when thinking about this. One is scientific and the other of artistic.

 

Consider the variables;

 

the amplifier, the speakers, the bass (incl. pick ups), the strings, what greasy crap you have on your hands or had on your hands at the gig the night before, how hard or soft you are playing, did you clip your fingernails? Shape of the room, materials in the walls and floor of the room, number of people (changes as the night goes on), what amp did the guitar player bring, who set up the PA system and which way did they point the speakers, did the drummer bring the big bass drum or the small bass drum and which snare is he using, temperature and humidity of the room (changes as the night goes on), which songs are on the set list, on and on and on and on.

 

Scientifically, this is too many variables, in my mind. Some can be controlled and some can be anticipated.

 

I came to the conclusion this weekend that gig sound is pure art. Scientific discussions are nice and useful, but when you walk in the door of a new venue, it is just art. Hats off to those that have it figured out. I am developing a great appreciation for the finer points of giggin.

 

Perhaps just Monday morning ramblings. Just my thoughts over my cup of coffee.

 

[picker]

I think I'd call it a combination fo art and science. The rules of acoustics and electronics still apply, so there are some constants that can be relied upon, if you know what they are. Physically setting up a PA is still a matter of plugging the right cables into the right jacks to get the right results. Setting the EQ curve is as simple as pink noising a room and following the results, which are usually accurate enough to work with, if you know enough to do it right.

 

Mixing, however, is a subjective interpretation of the overall sound made by the various individual levels, AND how they interact in a given acoustic space. That requires an ear for the process, something no one can learn. I have met a number of wannabe sound men who can quote stats, frequency response curves, all the numbers and science of it, but couldn't mix sound if their lives depended on it. That to me is the art of being a sound man, and there are too few really good practioners of the art.

[Ross Brown]

what is pink noising a room?

[Paul K]

I know the science still exists at a gig, and I tend to be much more of a scientific guy than most. But you should see the stink eye I get when I'm a little fussy about where I want to place my amp and where I think the PA speaks should go. And we're usually doing this in minimal time, minimal space, and in the dark. As such, I'm leaning heavily on the side of art.

[jcadmus]

I'd say it's more of a knack, overall than an art or a science.

 

But parametric eq is a modern miracle.

[Phil W]

There still is the science element as many of the variables in a particular context (room shape, furnishings etc are fixed) you then have to focus on the ones you can manipulate. I find cab positioning is probably one of the most crucial; then having got the sound you can control it using fingers etc.

[Max Valentino]

I would put is as being (at times un-) equal parts of art, science, experience, skill and craft. There is a tendency, especially with less-seasoned players, to believe that our "sound" will, or should, be consistent night to night, venue to venue. That we should sound as we do at home, or in our practice rooms. It doesn't work that way. There are almost infinite variables at play at all times. Room acoustics, the number of bodies in the room, the air temperature/humidity, the age of strings....and this does not even count in the emotional state of the players.

 

Especially with the rise of digital home recording, amp modeling etc., we have grown to believe that by simply calling up a patch, preset, or spinning the dials to a wax-penciled mark we can "recall" the exact sound we had at another time. Music , and sound, is a living thing, and as such is grows, evolves, and changes constantly. It is not a static event which can be recalled in detail to the slightest minutiae. Each performance in each environment is an unique event unto itself, and it is, in fact, impossible to even play the same thing exactly twice.

 

Regardless of eq settings, amp used, bass used or any other of the plethora of variables which can be considered, you will sound like you. This takes a little time to become adjusted to (how many of us have truly accepted the sound of our recorded voice?). Playing to a room, setting stage volumes and tones, then becomes a matter of adjusting to make a mix which "works" for that particular, and unique, situation. Your deep, dubby bass tone which work so well in practice when your gtrist was playing his tele will not sound so good when he is playing his Les Paul on a hollow stage. You need to adjust your tone, perhaps adding more mids, to make the mix work (in short...to make him sound better!)

 

This is also why sound techs want a DI line from the bass without your amp settings. What works for you onstage is more than likely NOT what works in the room, and to adjust for that discrepancy they have to compensate with more eq ,which usually overlaps the settings you already have made, leading to a compromised tone lacking in clarity.

Not to even mention the fact that the complete cycle of a bass note occurs something like 21 feet out from the amp (i.e. what you hear standing within reasonable proximity to your amp is quite different from what is heard 50 ft out in the audience...)

 

Philosophically, "tone setting" works like the Buddhist concept of "being water". Water takes the shape of the vessel or path it is in/on. When water is poured into a bowl it takes the shape of that bowl. As a stream it takes the shape of the land it flows thru/on. Your concept of tone must be "like water". You need to shape it to the room, hall, environment you are in, but must also adapt it to the sound/tone of the other musicians., and not a preconceived notion f what your sound is. Your sound is you, regardless of settings, and it will always be. As water will always be water. But you must learn to shape your sound to the vessel which holds it. Playing with a very trebly, "modern" sound when a gtrist has a chimy, ringing telecaster tone may not cut it. All your cool slap licks may not "fit" when the keybrds have a high string-y part comping, or the gtr has alot of upper mid distortion going on. Your deep, round tone may not work with thick de-tuned gtrs...and certainly won't work on a hollow concrete stage. (In a perfect world the other players would be taking all of this into consideration as well...but, let's face it, that just doesn't happen very much....). And then there is finding where your tone can slip in with the sound of the kick drum.....

 

General attitude, health, fatigue etc of the players also plays into how the tonal mix happens. If one player has a head cold, that congestion and the fatigue which coincides will "alter" his/her playing and tone. Her is where the others step up and compensate (now there are quite a few sports team analogies to be made regarding this...I think you see the point.).

 

Science and experience can play a big part in helping one "become like water" sonically. You can determine, at least ballpark, the sound of a stage/room by learning to "listen" to the acoustic properties therein. Stand in middle of the room or stage and snap you fingers or clap your hands. Listen to echoes, the reflections, the relative brightness and darkness of the sound (yes, once bodies are in the room it will change....if you have PA then the soundguy will make those adjustments...if not one can easily compensate with very slight tonal changes...).

 

All the players in the band should be keenly aware of how their tones mix. Unfortunately, most of instruments seem to think "their" tone is some kind of divine blessing which cannot be altered, and so it rests on us, the bass players, to adjust our tone (but that it part of our job; we play to make others sound better...). More often than not, a good sounding band is one where each player understands the sonic magic of tones, volume, amp placement et al. and makes adjustments so that each sound blends into the overall mix.

 

And, stage volume has a lot to do with it. Being too loud onstage, and most bands are, kills tone (no matter what you gtr player says....and since your drummer will certainly complain that he/she cannot turn down their volume, you should correct them to point out that drummers have the most precise, and wholly analog, volume control of the lot!). There is an exponential relationship between volume and tone. And, the louder you turn up the more you must compensate with tone changes usually in the opposite direction.

 

Lastly....and again with science (or is this art?)....don't use eq boosts unnecessarily. More often than not I see/hear bass players boosting the eq on their bass, on their pedals, on their amps. This is a lot of eq boost, and most of it overly redundant (don't forget, there is likely a PA with channel eq and some sorta graphic eq on the mix), and leads to some serious phase issues, less-than-coherent sound, generally muddiness, ear fatigue and frustration. If you need more low end (and here a lot of players greatly exaggerate the "need" for lows), you can achieve this sonically by cutting some highs or high mids on the amp...or dialing back some treble on your bass. Conversely, if you need to cut thru better, rather than adding highs and high mids...and the noise which goes with it...cut back on some of the mud.

 

I think the key is to accept the fact that you, and your band, will sound different night to night, place to place. You will not always sound the "same", but you will always sound like "you". Accepting that can really help cut back the frustrations of "getting your sound" live. It also keeps things exciting, fresh and somewhat "new" sounding.

 

FWIW I get all the tone I need, and then some, using only the passive tone control on my basses. I generally use no amp eq (only when the stage is exceptionally hollow or otherwise sonically hostile. or the room is filled with glass and steel---playing museums can be quite a sonic nightmare!), and run straight to a Demeter Tube DI (usually feeding that to the fx return of whatever amp I may be using (often using supplied back lines I bypass the preamp altogether and use the amp merely as a monitor onstage). My tone controls are only the passive treble-cut and my fingers. It is a very simple chain which allows me to make tonal adjustments quickly to compensate for the other players, the room, the crowd and the myriad of other sonic "gremlins" which pop up from time to time.

 

Max

[Max Valentino]

I should also point out that a common scenario is for a band to get a reheasal space and set up their line "just like on stage". And they practice and practice. Then they go out and play a place and it doesn't sound the same. They struggle. There is frustration. And they blame the sound guy.

 

More often than not, the "less-than-acceptable" sound they hear is not the same as the house (which usually sounds pretty good if the soundguy is worth is salt at all) but what mars the performance is their own obvious frustations.

 

Tip:...move your stuff around at rehearsals. Set up in "odd" configurations which force you to make adjustments. Don't allow yourself to develop the complacency of of things sounding a certain way. Allow yourself to grow accostemed to things sounding "different". This allows you to learn to "play" your tone settings.

 

MAx

[Max Valentino]

Sorry to hog this thread (maybe I am on a spree of Monday morn ramblings as well...)

 

Coming from a backgrund of jazz and improvisational music, I embrace the concept of never playing the same thing (exactly) twice...I sometimes don't play the same thing once!

And so, I tend to purposfully change up my playing. Often I will change tones by altering my hand position (and sometimes the register I am playing in) to provide differing tones for verses and choruses...or even changing it up within a verse.

 

This past weekend while playing my regular country gig, I did two such things. One of the gtrist had dropped a pick. I noticed it at my feet, and as the gtr began the intro to "Fast As You" I reached down and picked it up, and played the song, which I usually play fingerstyle with a pick. I am not really a pick player, but it sounded pretty darn cool. An epiphany?

 

I had, while backstage lookig for my tuner, come across my pair of Funk Fingers (a nifty lil' contraption developed by Tony Levin which consists of two sawed off and scalloped percussion sticks which velcro rings you attached to your fingers). Slipped them into my pocket (just in case...). As the intro to "Play That Funky Music White Boy" came up, I slipped on the Funk Fingers. Again, I usually play that tune fingerstyle, but the FFs really did add something unique (albeit a ceratin challenge to play that way unpracticed...they can be troublesome to control...and there is always that apprehensive little voice in my head asking why I am banging a $3000 bass with drumsticks?).

 

In both cases tonal adjustments had to be made by both myself and the other players. Not sure if either technique will stick with those tunes, but it was a nice change. Change is good. Yea, like water.

 

Max

 

 

[5 string Mike]

That's alot of good stuff, Max. IMHO, one of the most overlooked and underappreciated aspects of the whole thing is the 'less is more' factor that applies more often than we like to admit. (Especially in a room with terrible acoustics.)

 

Good sound guys are hard to find, but so many of them don't really have 'sound dynamics' knowledge. Someone showed them once how to slide levers and push mute buttons. Most of my experience has been in small churches (less than 300 people), so there generally isn't a trained, professional sound person, just a volunteer who has some kind of electronics background. I have had to teach myself and research myself alot about sound dynamics and board operation to help the sound people actually get a better sound out of the singers and players. One example is getting the sound people to quit pointing the monitors right at the mics and adjusting the eq's on the mic channels to make people sound more natural instead of like a tin can or the Charlie Brown teacher.

 

Live sound, to me at least, is about 50% science, 50% experience, 50% trial and error, and 50% art, and 50% people actually listening to the group as a whole and having strong enough musicianship to make adjustments. My hat goes off to those that actually get a good handle on it.

 

Mike

 

[Ross Brown]

Great posts Max, thanks.

[MongoN1]

Mongo's Universal Rule of Sound.

Tip the sound guy dudes.

Before the gig!!!!!

If it's your own gear and you are the sound guy-

Get a wireless set up and walk around the room as the band plays.

You can dial in everything but your own vocal that way.

Why not use a head set mic you ask?

I personally can't get the same dynamic variations on a head set that i can with a 58. (closer and further from the mic)

And once again read the stuff max said cauze he has some great points.

 

[...]

Words words words...

 

1. Setup rig

2. Adjust EQ on amp

3. Fine tune with bass as necessary

 

The more you gig and play different venues the better you'll get at it.

[MongoN1]

Ok.

(this reply was brought to you with as few words as possible)

[Ross Brown]

!